Trackday advice

[longjon]

Come next spring I will have owned my chim for a year and as such the insurance will be up for renew. Something I have always fancied doing is trying out a couple of trackdays (once I have my NCB protected!). Was just wondering what I need to consider to get onto a track next year, ie insurance, roll bar, exhaust db, etc...

Can passengers come along, do they need insurance too? Any companies that are recommended?

For those of you who have tried it what's it like and does it wreck your car?! Would you recommend it? (not that I'll be doing it every weekend!)

Am planning a ridedrive sesh before then too.

Thanks
Jon

[daydreamer]

longjon said:

Come next spring I will have owned my chim for a year and as such the insurance will be up for renew. Something I have always fancied doing is trying out a couple of trackdays (once I have my NCB protected!). Was just wondering what I need to consider to get onto a track next year, ie insurance, roll bar, exhaust db, etc... Can passengers come along, do they need insurance too? Any companies that are recommended? For those of you who have tried it what's it like and does it wreck your car?! Would you recommend it? (not that I'll be doing it every weekend!) Am planning a ridedrive sesh before then too. Thanks Jon

First of all - do it - it was what your car was designed for. I guarantee you will never look back.

The answers to most of your questions will be on the track day forum - so I'd advise searching that as all of us that reply here will miss stuff out.

In brief though:-

1) Insurance - you probably won't be covered by your general policy (although if you are - I am - that will do nicely). Specialist track day insurance is available where you insure a percentage of the value of your car. Get along and watch a few to assess the risk. There are about a trillian threads on this over at trackdays!

2) Car. You should not have to upgrade your car to take it on the track. The nut behind the wheel should be the first upgrade. Until you have a feel for how the car behaves, it is pointless just following what others have done, as it may not suit you.

However, track driving does induce extra stresses, so your car should be well prepped (brake fluid levels, tyre pressures, engine oil etc). GetCarter has a track day checklist on his website which you may find useful .

3) Organisers. In general, you get what you pay for. Bookatrack and Easytrack constantly get good press on here. I have always had a great time on RMA days (alot of which are at Bedford Autodrome, which is the ultimate track day circuit - loads of runoff and no racers), and did a day with a new company last year called BHP. Friendly, but again very well organised.

4) Passengers are always welcome, although there will be a fee (usually about £25 per passenger). Spectators are usually free. Best bet is to get along to a day close to you and have a look at what goes on.

Enjoy

Rich

[Fatboy chim]

I did my first trackday yesterday (Snetterton), i went in the novice group and to took my time to start with. I had a ball! and no damage or problems. Remember, you dont have to rag it the whole time, just go quick enough to enjoy yourself. I didnt book any tuition but now wish i had, as the day went on i wanted to get through the curves quicker but my lack of talent/knowledge was slowing me, i think some help would have improved this but i still had a great day. Be aware though, it is very tiring, which suprised me, in fact i didnt go out for my last session due to this. As for insurance i use Classicline who covered me for no extra charge (with a £1250 excess) but they only cover certain organisers.
All i have to do now is clean the lumps of rubber off of my tyres(ok i didnt take it THAT easy)
All i can say is do it do it do it
Just to add ive had my Chim since last spring as well
Have fun
Andy

[drum4it2]

I second the Classicline cover, think my excess is £500 but only on TVRCC events if IRC? By the way, Hi Andy!

[55jnj]

Unfortunately, a chim gives you precious little protection if you go off into the Kitty litter & (god forbid) roll it. If you think you're going to track day more, then make a good roll-bar you're first purchase - doesn't cost that much & is discrete, particularly with the hood up. Be warned though - track daying is addictive, the more you do, the more you want to do.

[K4TRV]

55jnj said:

Unfortunately, a chim gives you precious little protection if you go off into the Kitty litter & (god forbid) roll it. If you think you're going to track day more, then make a good roll-bar you're first purchase - doesn't cost that much & is discrete, particularly with the hood up. Be warned though - track daying is addictive, the more you do, the more you want to do.

I've only participated in TVR Track Days - very well organised, but some "drivers" take it too far !!

First, if you're prepared to push so hard that you may end up in the kitty litter, above, then you've the wrong mind-set for Track days. Go and get tution if you are not confident enough with your own and the cars limitations.

Track Days let you hoon within your own limits - if you go beyond them, then you just stop everyone else's fun at the Track Day (Red flag and end of current session) - IT IS NOT A RACE. TVR Track Days even provide tution for FREE and only a £5-er per passanger or additional driver (if you're that brave).

Just read a few articles here on the Forums and take you pick of activities you want to "try".

Trev McM

[chris_chim]

Not sure I agree with this last point (but agree it is not a race). I and many others use trackdays to explore the cars potential in a relatively safe environment (compared to the road). This can lead to a spin (particularly in the wet where catching it can be very hard) which can lead to ending up in the kitty litter (or barriers in places).

[daydreamer]

Wouldn't want to end up the the barriers in my P&J (don't particularly enjoy it in the race car ), but I can understand what you are saying.

Everyone says that Bedford is the ideal track day venue because it has loads of runoff. If you are driving like you would on the road, why would you need said runoff.

I try to work on the general principle that providing that you have a healthy respect for others, then push on driving is the way forwards. I will patiently sit behind someone for a lap if they haven't seen me (leaving a gap big enough for them to spin infront of me if required eh froggie!), but once in clear air, I'll attack the apexes pretty hard. Not qualifying pace, but getting there .

Edit -> just for clarity, I'm not advocating using the runoff - but it is there for a reason just in case.


>> Edited by daydreamer on Friday 8th October 13:21

[longjon]

Thanks for the replies. But say you were to end up in the gravel, are we talking a respray? Am thinking of maybe getting a respray next year anyway and may coincide this after the trackday just in case...tho obviously I will aim to be staying out of the gravel(/barriers )!

[K4TRV]

daydreamer said:

Wouldn't want to end up the the barriers in my P&J (don't particularly enjoy it in the race car ), but I can understand what you are saying. Everyone says that Bedford is the ideal track day venue because it has loads of runoff. If you are driving like you would on the road, why would you need said runoff. I try to work on the general principle that providing that you have a healthy respect for others, then push on driving is the way forwards. I will patiently sit behind someone for a lap if they haven't seen me (leaving a gap big enough for them to spin infront of me if required eh froggie!), but once in clear air, I'll attack the apexes pretty hard. Not qualifying pace, but getting there . Edit -> just for clarity, I'm not advocating using the runoff - but it is there for a reason just in case. >> Edited by daydreamer on Friday 8th October 13:21

Agreed and I wasn't saying don't find the boundaries of your bravery or car - but the earlier thread indicated fitting of a roll bar and that the Chim wasn't too good in a roll over !!! Just don't find the limits when there's kitty litter/soft earth/barriers in the way.

Great when there's sufficent run-off to explore safely - I too have followed a few with loads of space just waiting for them to either see me and let me pass or spin off - its about 8-2 (2-spins) at the minute !!

Trev McM

[GarryM]

K4TRV said:

First, if you're prepared to push so hard that you may end up in the kitty litter, above, then you've the wrong mind-set for Track days. Go and get tution if you are not confident enough with your own and the cars limitations. Track Days let you hoon within your own limits - if you go beyond them, then you just stop everyone else's fun at the Track Day (Red flag and end of current session) - IT IS NOT A RACE. TVR Track Days even provide tution for FREE and only a £5-er per passanger or additional driver (if you're that brave). Trev McM

I don't really agree with this. It kind of depends on your mentality as to whether you are likely to spin on a track day (and your skill of course). During my first few track days, I suspect like a number of others, I couldn't help but push it a bit. I took instruction at each one but that actually made it worse as I was going faster and faster (better lines etc) but my standard of car control and in particular my ability to recover a car out of control had not really improved. I then had a spin (with an instructor - poor bloke!) which really brought me down to earth.

If you are a competitive type and think you are likely to want to "push it" a bit, my advice would be to attend a one-to-one tuition course in your car in an environment where you can lose it over and over again without fear of damaging your car. You will learn so much and track driving will be so much safer even if you are pushing it and driving fast.

[groucho]

GarryM said:

If you are a competitive type and think you are likely to want to "push it" a bit, my advice would be to attend a one-to-one tuition course in your car in an environment where you can lose it over and over again without fear of damaging your car. You will learn so much and track driving will be so much safer even if you are pushing it and driving fast.

Yes, I've just booked the Advanced Performance Driving Course at Silverstone as advertised in Sprint.
Thought I needed this as I have never been on a track before and wanted to learn some skills before doing lone track days.

Grouch.

[fatboy chim]

drum4it2 said:

Hi Andy!

Hi Graham, havn't spoke for a while, we should try to meet for a pint somewhere before the weather goes completely.

[cdp]

Bearing it mind it's not a race I would recommend that you go easy on the brakes. The brakes take the most punishment and it is only too easy to overheat them on track. Overheating leads to wrecked pads, discs, fluid and siezed calipers.

If you slow more gently into the corner you will go round it faster and have a better chance of learning the lines.

Seriously this advice will save you hundreds of pounds and won't detract from the day.

[55jnj]

K4TRV said:

55jnj said: Unfortunately, a chim gives you precious little protection if you go off into the Kitty litter & (god forbid) roll it. If you think you're going to track day more, then make a good roll-bar you're first purchase - doesn't cost that much & is discrete, particularly with the hood up. Be warned though - track daying is addictive, the more you do, the more you want to do. I've only participated in TVR Track Days - very well organised, but some "drivers" take it too far !! First, if you're prepared to push so hard that you may end up in the kitty litter, above, then you've the wrong mind-set for Track days. Go and get tution if you are not confident enough with your own and the cars limitations. Track Days let you hoon within your own limits - if you go beyond them, then you just stop everyone else's fun at the Track Day (Red flag and end of current session) - IT IS NOT A RACE. TVR Track Days even provide tution for FREE and only a £5-er per passanger or additional driver (if you're that brave). Just read a few articles here on the Forums and take you pick of activities you want to "try". Trev McM

First, just about everyone I know who participates in track days, pushes hard or at least harder than they would drive, say, on the road - otherwise what's the point of driving on the track ? For the scenery ?Pushing hard doesn't mean to say you're driving beyond your limits & I think it's wrong to assume this.

I do agree that you should always drive WITHIN your's & the car's limits & you're foolish to go over either. However your reply shows a certain lack of understanding of some of the issues relating to track days.

I think it's fair to say that sometimes people do go off the track through absolutely NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

- maybe because you're having to take evasive action from an incident that's just happened in front of them & there's simply nowhere else to go. Coming over the brow round Paddock at full chat, or maybe the blind brow at Quiddlebach, are good examples of this that come to mind.

- maybe because of a mechanical incident to your own car, a blow out etc (yes, these things do happen, even on those very well organised, TVR track days !).

- what about oil spills before the red & yellows are out ? Take an example such as chasing down the hill towards Pouhon (appropriate name in this context !) & you have what is probably the largest gravel trap in Europe in front of you. I guess that the majority of drivers will be doing something like 100 mph + (don't know for sure, have never looked) & then you hit oil the marshals haven't seen yet. Your free TVRCC tuition isn't going to help much is it

There is not necessarilly a correlation between confidence as you put it & going in the kitty litter.

All I'm saying is that track driving obviously exposes you to higher risks & surely it makes sense to mitigate those risks as best as you can, without compromising your enjoyment or that of others etc. I don't see that fitting a roll-bar to a car that is otherwise totally unprotected in this regard, can do anything else but. I can't really see how you can associate fitting a roll-bar with driving "beyond your ability".

I think to suggest that you're only ever going to go off because you're "pushing too hard" or it's your fault, is a bit naive & maybe just a little patronising to many many PHers. You're confusing the relationship between speed & skill.

I've done dozens & dozens of track days over the last 5 yrs or so, incl maybe 5,000 miles or so round Nurburgring. Ive seen people pushing very hard indeed, but still driving skillfully, sensibly & within their's/the car's limits. I've seen cars such as Harry Leventis's £500,000 Porsche GT1 pass me on track days at unbelievable speeds, with the driver pushing as hard as anyone, but, being driven with utmost skill, care & attention. I've every respect for these people. They push the limits but STAY WITHIN THEM & that in my mind is partly what track days are all about.

I've never seen "racing" on a track day & hope I never will. It simply cannot be tolerated or advocated by anyone.

It has to be said though that I've also seen absolute idiots driving slowly & dangerously on track days, without any spatial awareness or respect for what else is going on around them, or without consideration for others on the track.

Yes, I've seen good sensible driving on TVR Car Club days & again I have to say, I've seen fairly lousy driving on these days & more often than not, not just because the drivers were going particularly quickly.

My suggestion to "longjon" of fitting a roll-bar comes from the basis that, if you are going to track day (& you'll probably know after yor first outing whether or not it's for you), then IMHO it makes sense to think about upgrading the aspects relating to your personal safety BEFORE you think about upgrading the performance aspect of your car. My own roll-bar, fitted, trimmed in matching leather-cloth etc, cost me LESS THAN A QUARTER of the last brake upgrade ! Why compromise ?

Do you wear a seat-belt on the road because it's the law or because it's safer to do so ?. Clearly it's the latter for many people & how many accidents happen on the road which are not the fault of one party or the other ?

I've seen cars, particularly TVRs (& heh this sounds like I'm anti-TVR, absolutely not true, I have 2), where the guys have fitted harnesses but don't have a roll-bar or cage within the car. If you think that through as to what could happen in a worst case situation, then it's absolute madness. Or maybe it's simply that those who've done it just don't understand the implications.

I love my hobby, I've "invested" far more in it than I ever dreamed I would when I started out. I respect everyone out there who pushes hard & explores their own particular limits in a safe & sensible way (& I accept that everyone has a different limit - again don't confuse speed with skill).

I don't like to see inconsiderate, selfish, stupid or just plain dangerous driving (but unfortunately, give the massive cross section of people who do track day, you will always see these things, no matter how hard we all try & stamp it out).

I don't subscribe to the "nanny state" theory & I'm certainly not advocating that all Chim owners go & get a roll-bar fitted. What you do regarding YOUR personal safety is UP TO YOU. However, NEVER, EVER suggest that other track dayers, particularly those guys new to the hobby who maybe need a little guidance, should compromise their safety.

Longjon, I hope you do a lot more track days, I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as so many of us. Think seriously about the merits of fitting a roll-bar. It won't cost you very much & maybe, just maybe, one day you'll come back on this forum & say "Thank God I followed your advice".

>> Edited by 55jnj on Saturday 9th October 11:51

>> Edited by 55jnj on Sunday 10th October 10:16

[keppy]

One question from someone who's never done a trackday (but after changing insurance might!!) - do you need to wear a helmet in a hard-topped car (i.e. Cerb)? Might sound like a stupid question, but i'm quite tall and don't know if i'll be able to sit in the car with a helmet on!

[55jnj]

keppy said:

One question from someone who's never done a trackday (but after changing insurance might!!) - do you need to wear a helmet in a hard-topped car (i.e. Cerb)? Might sound like a stupid question, but i'm quite tall and don't know if i'll be able to sit in the car with a helmet on!

Yep - absolute must whatever the car.