v12v sound... again!
Discussion
Have driven my v12v extensively again at the weekend.
Just love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
Just love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
erics said:
Have driven my v12v extensively again at the weekend.
Just love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
I can't advise on the technical stuff but I can agree on the sentiment, I drive with the window down a lot now I've got the DB9 (w/o F22), but it is a shame I can't hear it more whilst at the wheel. I was planning my drive into Canary Wharf for this thursday, umming and erring about different routes, then I remembered the Blackwall tunnel....route decided. Just love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
Unlike V8V, V12V has primary & secondary cats in distinctly separate parts of the car - primary up in the headers and secondary near the backbox
The monitoring is done on the primaries
If you go down the BR route, they remove the primaries as part of the new manifold system and move the sensors to the secondary cats which can be replaced with racing cats
But assuming you aren't going down that route, I can't understand why some people replace the secondary cats with racings ones rather than get rid altogether. I've just swapped the secondaries on my V12V for capristo straight thru pipes which don't cost much money and make a dramatic difference. I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
The BR route is far better from a performance point of view but of course costs far more - this route is much less money and from a sound only point of view, immense !
The monitoring is done on the primaries
If you go down the BR route, they remove the primaries as part of the new manifold system and move the sensors to the secondary cats which can be replaced with racing cats
But assuming you aren't going down that route, I can't understand why some people replace the secondary cats with racings ones rather than get rid altogether. I've just swapped the secondaries on my V12V for capristo straight thru pipes which don't cost much money and make a dramatic difference. I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
The BR route is far better from a performance point of view but of course costs far more - this route is much less money and from a sound only point of view, immense !
erics said:
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
Erics, there must be around 1000 threads on this and s sticky at the top of the page Has anyone done this?
Have you ever heard of Bamford Rose? They're the guys who do all the V12 modifications including manifolds and catalyst changes to 200cpi units. Together these add up to around 60bhp on the V12V and make a fantastic noise which you can choose the level of with the addidtion or removal of resonators.
For a more budget approach, they offer 200cpi catalysts without the manifolds for around 18-20bhp and a nice increase in noise level.
If you simply remove the cats, the engine check light will come on... your car will go into 'limp' mode, meaning you only have the power of a V8 Vantage
erics said:
Have driven my v12v extensively again at the weekend.
Just love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
A fair few of the V12 guys have had cats & manifold modsJust love it in every way.
Except that... the sound is not loud enough from inside the car or even with windows down. Even with fuse 22 pulled.
It is a fun car, I want it LOUD..
Here is my thinking process, I removed the cat of my 993 c2s and the difference in sound was enormous.
I guess one cannot take out the catalytic converters off the v12v as it is a newer car. BUT, I would assume one could only remove one of the cats? I assume there are primary and secondary cars?
Has anyone done this?
I'm sure Cockers will be the first to spot this thread
jonby said:
I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
Interesting... much of a weight saving Jonby? What sort of noise level increase? I'd love to get shot of the OEM backbox but need the valves!! If this is an option, I could use this and then have BR install some resonators to change the pitch/tone/volume to whatever I like...Good God man! Not loud enough 
How loud do you want it?
I find the sound different to the V8V which was more of a tight and controlled scream whereas the V12V is more of a growl. Really enjoying the burble on the overrun and had some fantastic pops too
I have removed fuse 15 (until I get a BR switch fitted) but can't really say that I want it any louder. To each his/her own though
How loud do you want it?I find the sound different to the V8V which was more of a tight and controlled scream whereas the V12V is more of a growl. Really enjoying the burble on the overrun and had some fantastic pops too
I have removed fuse 15 (until I get a BR switch fitted) but can't really say that I want it any louder. To each his/her own though
yeti said:
Interesting... much of a weight saving Jonby? What sort of noise level increase? I'd love to get shot of the OEM backbox but need the valves!! If this is an option, I could use this and then have BR install some resonators to change the pitch/tone/volume to whatever I like...
Be nice if you could link the exhaust volume to the controls on the steering wheel jonby said:
But assuming you aren't going down that route, I can't understand why some people replace the secondary cats with racings ones rather than get rid altogether. I've just swapped the secondaries on my V12V for ***capristo straight thru pipes*** which don't cost much money and make a dramatic difference. I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
Jonby, many thanks...IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
That's the one! Exactly what I am after. Straight through secondaries. Could you please clarify the costs and who to order / fits etc?
Chaps, I know there are dozens of options available and posts etc. But my idea was very specific. I am London based and BR not an option. Want to be able to revert very easily.
yeti said:
jonby said:
I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
Interesting... much of a weight saving Jonby? What sort of noise level increase? I'd love to get shot of the OEM backbox but need the valves!! If this is an option, I could use this and then have BR install some resonators to change the pitch/tone/volume to whatever I like...In respect of just removing the cats, I can confirm having done it on my car, that's not a problem - the secondary cats were replaced with straight thru pipes and I've just come back from a weekend at Donnington - no warning lights at all. Obviously if it was done in conjunction with BR headers, there would be a problem....
The new sound is amazing. Up to 5k revs, it's very much a louder version of the same sound, but in a way that you can define what's going on, not just loud booming. From c. 5k revs up, it screams like a racing car. And even with valves open, cruising at under 3k revs is pretty quiet
The on thing I can't tell you is how much of all this is down to the replacement cat pipes and how much the new backbox as they were both fitted at the same time :-(
I'm not sure of weight saving on the backbox - I don't think it's huge as whilst the box(es) is much smaller, the valves weight and the overall product is significantly higher quality
Here's the link to the products http://www.capristo.de/en/exhaustsystems/aston-mar...
the boxes are much smaller than they look in the photos - look at how much pipework there is either side and consider how little there is on the OEM box - that gives you a bit of an idea
Oh and the UK prices are less than a straight sterling equivalent to their quote Euro pricing - I ordered from the UK distributor and had them delivered direct to Stratstones Wilmslow who fitted them - they were very impressed with it all
erics said:
jonby said:
But assuming you aren't going down that route, I can't understand why some people replace the secondary cats with racings ones rather than get rid altogether. I've just swapped the secondaries on my V12V for ***capristo straight thru pipes*** which don't cost much money and make a dramatic difference. I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
Jonby, many thanks...IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
That's the one! Exactly what I am after. Straight through secondaries. Could you please clarify the costs and who to order / fits etc?
Chaps, I know there are dozens of options available and posts etc. But my idea was very specific. I am London based and BR not an option. Want to be able to revert very easily.
erics said:
jonby said:
But assuming you aren't going down that route, I can't understand why some people replace the secondary cats with racings ones rather than get rid altogether. I've just swapped the secondaries on my V12V for ***capristo straight thru pipes*** which don't cost much money and make a dramatic difference. I've also gone for a capristo back box, the only valved backbox other than the OEM one
IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
Jonby, many thanks...IMO, if you are removing the rear cats, it's essential to have a valved backbox, preferably with a switch to operate the equivalent of pulling/putting back fuse 15/12, as there is the odd time it's otherwise simply too loud
That's the one! Exactly what I am after. Straight through secondaries. Could you please clarify the costs and who to order / fits etc?
Chaps, I know there are dozens of options available and posts etc. But my idea was very specific. I am London based and BR not an option. Want to be able to revert very easily.
it's the classic delete, not the damped. I paid about £450 including VAT & delivery. The sole UK distributor is Scuderia Systems - speak to Manu there
Fitting is c. 1-2 hours, at whatever labour rate your local place chooses. I went to Stratsones who also fitted the switch (that BR do for free when doing other things on your car), which cost just under £200 including VAT, parts & labour. I guess therefore the total exercise could be done for c. £850 i.e. pipes, fitting & switch
I'm sure fitting can be done much cheaper than I paid but I wanted to get it all done at the local aston dealer as with backbox being a little less accessible on V12 than V8, I wanted extra piece of mind it was done properly
ty Jonby. Which one did you order out of these 4?
retail price incl. german VAT:
Muffler: 3941,88 Euro
progr. control unit: 803,25 Euro
damped cat delte pipes: 966,88 Euro
classic cat delte pipes: 565,25 Euro
What is the difference between damped and classis delete pipes? Also what does it do to your warranty?
retail price incl. german VAT:
Muffler: 3941,88 Euro
progr. control unit: 803,25 Euro
damped cat delte pipes: 966,88 Euro
classic cat delte pipes: 565,25 Euro
What is the difference between damped and classis delete pipes? Also what does it do to your warranty?
jonby said:
In respect of the points you and mikey make about BR, I read the thread as being about cheaper/simpler/more noise only options. Ragardless of it's VFM, BR option on V12V costs a significant chunk of cash. I've not ruled it out, but a combination of cost and concerns about originality on my car (which is subjective I know and of course BR mods can be reversed) has led me to put this off for consideration next year
In respect of just removing the cats, I can confirm having done it on my car, that's not a problem - the secondary cats were replaced with straight thru pipes and I've just come back from a weekend at Donnington - no warning lights at all. Obviously if it was done in conjunction with BR headers, there would be a problem....
The new sound is amazing. Up to 5k revs, it's very much a louder version of the same sound, but in a way that you can define what's going on, not just loud booming. From c. 5k revs up, it screams like a racing car. And even with valves open, cruising at under 3k revs is pretty quiet
The on thing I can't tell you is how much of all this is down to the replacement cat pipes and how much the new backbox as they were both fitted at the same time :-(
I'm not sure of weight saving on the backbox - I don't think it's huge as whilst the box(es) is much smaller, the valves weight and the overall product is significantly higher quality
Here's the link to the products http://www.capristo.de/en/exhaustsystems/aston-mar...
the boxes are much smaller than they look in the photos - look at how much pipework there is either side and consider how little there is on the OEM box - that gives you a bit of an idea
Oh and the UK prices are less than a straight sterling equivalent to their quote Euro pricing - I ordered from the UK distributor and had them delivered direct to Stratstones Wilmslow who fitted them - they were very impressed with it all
In respect of just removing the cats, I can confirm having done it on my car, that's not a problem - the secondary cats were replaced with straight thru pipes and I've just come back from a weekend at Donnington - no warning lights at all. Obviously if it was done in conjunction with BR headers, there would be a problem....
The new sound is amazing. Up to 5k revs, it's very much a louder version of the same sound, but in a way that you can define what's going on, not just loud booming. From c. 5k revs up, it screams like a racing car. And even with valves open, cruising at under 3k revs is pretty quiet
The on thing I can't tell you is how much of all this is down to the replacement cat pipes and how much the new backbox as they were both fitted at the same time :-(
I'm not sure of weight saving on the backbox - I don't think it's huge as whilst the box(es) is much smaller, the valves weight and the overall product is significantly higher quality
Here's the link to the products http://www.capristo.de/en/exhaustsystems/aston-mar...
the boxes are much smaller than they look in the photos - look at how much pipework there is either side and consider how little there is on the OEM box - that gives you a bit of an idea
Oh and the UK prices are less than a straight sterling equivalent to their quote Euro pricing - I ordered from the UK distributor and had them delivered direct to Stratstones Wilmslow who fitted them - they were very impressed with it all
mikey k said:
A fair few of the V12 guys have had cats & manifold mods
I'm sure Cockers will be the first to spot this thread
I did, but the OP is not looking for power, just noise. I therefore respectfully declined to comment I'm sure Cockers will be the first to spot this thread
As you know, mine originally sounded like the end of the world was coming and I have subsequently had it gagged down to a sensible dB level. Also the mods I have had were about more power, as a V12V needs more
erics said:
ty Jonby. Which one did you order out of these 4?
retail price incl. german VAT:
Muffler: 3941,88 Euro
progr. control unit: 803,25 Euro
damped cat delte pipes: 966,88 Euro
classic cat delte pipes: 565,25 Euro
What is the difference between damped and classis delete pipes? Also what does it do to your warranty?
muffler & classic delete piperetail price incl. german VAT:
Muffler: 3941,88 Euro
progr. control unit: 803,25 Euro
damped cat delte pipes: 966,88 Euro
classic cat delte pipes: 565,25 Euro
What is the difference between damped and classis delete pipes? Also what does it do to your warranty?
programmable control is useful if your car does not have a box with OEM valves programmed to open/close at various points but as Astons do, not really any need
damped pipe keeps sound down :-( I guess useful for track work
warranty wise, it's the usual story - they can only get out of warranty claims that can be reasonably deemed to have been caused by the new parts
Prices have a little wiggle room, here's the link to Manu at Scuderia
http://www.scuderiasystems.com/Products/_prod_Capr...
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