A/V and Network plan
Discussion
Didn't want to hijack Tonk's thread, so here's another for VEX / Toxicnerve to get their teeth in to!
Kicking off a complete renovation of the house in a fortnight - floors coming up, rewiring and replumbing. The ground floor will be excavated with a new slab going down complete with UFH, the first floor will remain radiators until the dust has settled (literally!) and will then be converted to UFH over the winter. Currently we have all ceilings down so have complete access to first floor underside, and loft is clear so can get at things from above too. Plan is for Heatmiser to control the multitudinous zones, and then trying to decide between LightwaveRF and Z-wave for light / socket / lock automation, the jury is still out on that choice!
When we originally planned this, I had assumed I'd be looking at a bazillion Popcorn Hour machines and god knows what else and bluray etc in a centralised machine area, but the game has moved on somewhat.... as have the requirements. Next year will see an extension being built with new second lounge and master bedroom, but for now it's just the main house being gutted and redone. So.... what to do.... The beauty of course of things being gutted at the mo is that I can throw cables wherever, and chase things into walls to my heart's content before plasterers come in and fill all the holes at once. So now is the time to make a mess.
Currently I have most rooms wired with Cat6 which go up to a node in the loft with a 48-port Layer 2 switch via patress so they can be direct source/target or standard Ethernet. I may yet replace the switch with a PoE one, but for now it stays. There's also a NAS up there, along with router. There's no freeview out here, or at least not without the advent of a mahooosive antenna, so we're on Freesat only, and have no intention of ever paying Murdoch Tax. The kids are the only ones who watch TV anyway, we just go for blu-rays or something on the Apple TV. We have one area of Sonos in the kitchen, would probably look to either add more of these, or go with AppleTV throughout...
So requirements would be:
Lounge:
Telly = KRP600A with Blu ray / 5.1 receiver / PMC surround rig / Freesat box / AppleTV.
Currently this just has a lot of Ethernet going to it for ATV, iPlayer etc. Never bothered with Sonos in here as I just play audio direct to amp or through ATV.
Kitchen:
Telly = none until work is finished, would assume something "Smart" and with in-built Freesat, probably with an ATV on the back. Currently I have a Cyrus / PMC rig with the Sonos attached in the room, plan would be to put the hardware in a cupboard so as to just leave the speakers, which will in all likelihood become Wafer2s on the walls.
Other rooms:
Kids bedrooms? Right now they're too small (6 and 8) and we refuse to let them have telly or computer in their rooms, but one would assume that will change in the not too distant future. So probably needs to be wired in preparation now.
New lounge? Doesn't exist yet, but don't want to paint myself into a corner with something I have to rip out later to accommodate further zones. Sonos is easily scalable, other things may be less so?
I'm not overly fussed about being able to play Blu-rays anywhere other than in the lounge, and indeed the new lounge will have projector and so on over and above the telly. With freesat access and ATV, I'm not sure I need anything further in each area?
So current requirements would *seem* relatively simple - just the existing Cat6 (four or 8 lines per room currently), and maybe adding something in the loft plus a newer satellite dish / LNB to provide multiple feeds. Or should I be looking to centralise things further? With the advent of zippy broadband out here in the sticks, so much seems to revolve around that that I'm struggling to see the need for anything vastly more complex anymore?
Also, my wifi is naff. Utterly naff. I have gone through endless router / AP / extender combinations and it's still naff. I'm trying to restrain myself from charging down the Ubiquiti route, so would appreciate some input on that score too - basically no matter what AP is used, it'll only manage about half the house, and it's infuriating. Currently the only "solution", which is a bodge, is a hateful Apple Airport Extreme in the office, then an Airport express in the lounge, so when I walk down the house I have to manually change from one network to the other. No amount of shouting has persuaded the Express to extend the main network without utterly caning the speed and stability.
Anything I haven't thought of? Any pointers? Any rush to supply bits and pieces?
Kicking off a complete renovation of the house in a fortnight - floors coming up, rewiring and replumbing. The ground floor will be excavated with a new slab going down complete with UFH, the first floor will remain radiators until the dust has settled (literally!) and will then be converted to UFH over the winter. Currently we have all ceilings down so have complete access to first floor underside, and loft is clear so can get at things from above too. Plan is for Heatmiser to control the multitudinous zones, and then trying to decide between LightwaveRF and Z-wave for light / socket / lock automation, the jury is still out on that choice!
When we originally planned this, I had assumed I'd be looking at a bazillion Popcorn Hour machines and god knows what else and bluray etc in a centralised machine area, but the game has moved on somewhat.... as have the requirements. Next year will see an extension being built with new second lounge and master bedroom, but for now it's just the main house being gutted and redone. So.... what to do.... The beauty of course of things being gutted at the mo is that I can throw cables wherever, and chase things into walls to my heart's content before plasterers come in and fill all the holes at once. So now is the time to make a mess.
Currently I have most rooms wired with Cat6 which go up to a node in the loft with a 48-port Layer 2 switch via patress so they can be direct source/target or standard Ethernet. I may yet replace the switch with a PoE one, but for now it stays. There's also a NAS up there, along with router. There's no freeview out here, or at least not without the advent of a mahooosive antenna, so we're on Freesat only, and have no intention of ever paying Murdoch Tax. The kids are the only ones who watch TV anyway, we just go for blu-rays or something on the Apple TV. We have one area of Sonos in the kitchen, would probably look to either add more of these, or go with AppleTV throughout...
So requirements would be:
Lounge:
Telly = KRP600A with Blu ray / 5.1 receiver / PMC surround rig / Freesat box / AppleTV.
Currently this just has a lot of Ethernet going to it for ATV, iPlayer etc. Never bothered with Sonos in here as I just play audio direct to amp or through ATV.
Kitchen:
Telly = none until work is finished, would assume something "Smart" and with in-built Freesat, probably with an ATV on the back. Currently I have a Cyrus / PMC rig with the Sonos attached in the room, plan would be to put the hardware in a cupboard so as to just leave the speakers, which will in all likelihood become Wafer2s on the walls.
Other rooms:
Kids bedrooms? Right now they're too small (6 and 8) and we refuse to let them have telly or computer in their rooms, but one would assume that will change in the not too distant future. So probably needs to be wired in preparation now.
New lounge? Doesn't exist yet, but don't want to paint myself into a corner with something I have to rip out later to accommodate further zones. Sonos is easily scalable, other things may be less so?
I'm not overly fussed about being able to play Blu-rays anywhere other than in the lounge, and indeed the new lounge will have projector and so on over and above the telly. With freesat access and ATV, I'm not sure I need anything further in each area?
So current requirements would *seem* relatively simple - just the existing Cat6 (four or 8 lines per room currently), and maybe adding something in the loft plus a newer satellite dish / LNB to provide multiple feeds. Or should I be looking to centralise things further? With the advent of zippy broadband out here in the sticks, so much seems to revolve around that that I'm struggling to see the need for anything vastly more complex anymore?
Also, my wifi is naff. Utterly naff. I have gone through endless router / AP / extender combinations and it's still naff. I'm trying to restrain myself from charging down the Ubiquiti route, so would appreciate some input on that score too - basically no matter what AP is used, it'll only manage about half the house, and it's infuriating. Currently the only "solution", which is a bodge, is a hateful Apple Airport Extreme in the office, then an Airport express in the lounge, so when I walk down the house I have to manually change from one network to the other. No amount of shouting has persuaded the Express to extend the main network without utterly caning the speed and stability.
Anything I haven't thought of? Any pointers? Any rush to supply bits and pieces?
All the rooms already have either quad or octo runs of cat6 depending on size / orientation. The lounge currently has two poorly run lengths of coax for the sat dish.
So yes I'd need to look to some form of upgrade to the dish (?) and distribution to get thE frees at signal thrown around the place.
Not overly convinced by ceiling speakers tbh, and also not sure where I'd use them - lounge has 5.1 rig, kitchen has current floorstanders which I suspect will get accidentally morphed into Wafers
Am I thinking too small then? Should I be putting ceiling speakers everywhere?
So yes I'd need to look to some form of upgrade to the dish (?) and distribution to get thE frees at signal thrown around the place.
Not overly convinced by ceiling speakers tbh, and also not sure where I'd use them - lounge has 5.1 rig, kitchen has current floorstanders which I suspect will get accidentally morphed into Wafers
Am I thinking too small then? Should I be putting ceiling speakers everywhere?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Freesat is much the same - one to watch, one to record. Given the kids will likely be demanding their own programs and wife will doubtless be recording some interminable cookery program that lacks for sufficient Nigella, I'll go for at least a quad. Oh and thinking that the dish is in a bloody awkward place to access ("behind" the chimney) I'm tempted to put an 8 way LNB on and just leave four tails in the roof in case of future use.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hadn't thought of centrally locating Sonos, that's not a bad idea at all. I haven't used the amped ones thus far as they're too weenie for my speakers, so the current one is a Z-somethingorother, the previous model designation. I'd probably consider the Connect:Amp if I had an area I wanted ceiling speakers, but right now I can't think of where!Server in the office provides iTunes sharing, and NAS in Node0 has duplicated versions for direct feed to Sonos.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I was of old, but I'm less convinced now - The lounge rig has its own Bluray player, and the new lounge would too. Beyond that, it's telly for Freesat / iPlayer or ATV I think.... but I am vaguely wondering about one of those HDAnywhere boxes just to give me the best of both worlds..... I have yet to be convinced.anonymous said:
[redacted]
When we did the first tranche of rewiring, we planned on a full Rako rig, but it seems increasingly painfully expensive in the face of LightwaveRF / Zwave options, so they're on the table at the mo - not all rooms, but main / popular areas and outside floods. Happy to take thoughts under advisement... Crucially, we don't overly care about colours / scenes and the like, but phone/remote control is a must. Again, a while back the plan was everything dug into a Pronto rig, but that's gone by the by.Next headache will be the gate automation which has been installed by a lunatic who ignored all the instructions he was given (I was sadly away) and dug/refilled the trench without installing the Cat6 I gave him, so we only have 4-core to and from and some horrendous intercom which is no use to man nor beast, not least of all as it is at maximum cable length, so we can't even have more than one handset off it. I want that upgraded to video and to have more handsets around the place.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Understood, and muchly appreciate the time, thank you.
Hi Red.
Sorry for the delay in responding it has been a little bit mad this week.
So. Everything you and Tox have said makes sense.
Personally I would at least wire speaker cables in for in ceilings in the bedrooms and others, don't fit speakers or any electronics, but for the cost of speaker cable it's worth getting it in, my 7&5 year old are getting in to music and already asking for it in their bedrooms!
For Sky/sat feeds it is quite easy to design and set up. However I would recommend at least 3 coaxes to the key rooms, current and new living room. This will then allow you 'back feed' the satellite receivers to the central hub and then on around the rest if the house.
In the loft and for how you want to use it, I would install a Quad LNB on the dish and then use a small IRS switch to share the signal to all the tv's and set top boxes around the house, it won't take long to use all the ports on an octo LNB.
One issue with doing it this way is that you are limited in watching what ever you have recorded on say the kitchen Freesat box in the kitchen, you can't currently watch it some where else.
This is where an HD matrix comes in, it doesn't matter what you recorded on what box they will be available to all connected tv's. However I completely agree with you in keeping the DVD / BluRays in the room they are to be used it.
Finally, Don't forget, the wiring going in is as much about how others in the future may want to live in it as it is about how you want to now. So designing to strike a good balance is what it is all about.
Hth.
V.
Sorry for the delay in responding it has been a little bit mad this week.
So. Everything you and Tox have said makes sense.
Personally I would at least wire speaker cables in for in ceilings in the bedrooms and others, don't fit speakers or any electronics, but for the cost of speaker cable it's worth getting it in, my 7&5 year old are getting in to music and already asking for it in their bedrooms!
For Sky/sat feeds it is quite easy to design and set up. However I would recommend at least 3 coaxes to the key rooms, current and new living room. This will then allow you 'back feed' the satellite receivers to the central hub and then on around the rest if the house.
In the loft and for how you want to use it, I would install a Quad LNB on the dish and then use a small IRS switch to share the signal to all the tv's and set top boxes around the house, it won't take long to use all the ports on an octo LNB.
One issue with doing it this way is that you are limited in watching what ever you have recorded on say the kitchen Freesat box in the kitchen, you can't currently watch it some where else.
This is where an HD matrix comes in, it doesn't matter what you recorded on what box they will be available to all connected tv's. However I completely agree with you in keeping the DVD / BluRays in the room they are to be used it.
Finally, Don't forget, the wiring going in is as much about how others in the future may want to live in it as it is about how you want to now. So designing to strike a good balance is what it is all about.
Hth.
V.
Edited by VEX on Saturday 8th June 11:29
Cheers chap, all useful stuff. Going to try and get an aerial man out this week or next to sort the dish. I think speakers in bedrooms can wait to be honest - I can get at them all easily from above, so can do it later and it's not locked into this phase of work, as long as I allow for it in any possible switching / patress works.
One thing I am beginning to wonder is whether to bother going down the Sonos route throughout, or given our current payment of AppleTax (TM), whether an AppleTV in all relevant places would be just as adequate - they can still all be told to play the same thing everywhere, or just be used for Airplay or access to the iTunes library... Given everything will be wired too, I'm not going to be using the Sonos mesh networking anyway, so it loses that appeal too.... not sure on that one! ATV would certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper!
One thing I am beginning to wonder is whether to bother going down the Sonos route throughout, or given our current payment of AppleTax (TM), whether an AppleTV in all relevant places would be just as adequate - they can still all be told to play the same thing everywhere, or just be used for Airplay or access to the iTunes library... Given everything will be wired too, I'm not going to be using the Sonos mesh networking anyway, so it loses that appeal too.... not sure on that one! ATV would certainly be a hell of a lot cheaper!
Cheers chaps, sparky made a start whilst I was away, and has managed to do a great deal. He likes the idea of the MK big faceplates, so I'm going to get a couple of those in and give them a go. Will let you know how I get on, it'll doubtless be a weekend of sweating like a loon in the loft throwing Cat6 around the place!
RedLeicester said:
Cheers chaps, sparky made a start whilst I was away, and has managed to do a great deal. He likes the idea of the MK big faceplates, so I'm going to get a couple of those in and give them a go. Will let you know how I get on, it'll doubtless be a weekend of sweating like a loon in the loft throwing Cat6 around the place!
I take it back, I won't be using the MK faceplates. £130 inc back box is utterly barking. Instead I have managed to route things so the lounge boxes will be hidden in the hi-fi cabinet, and in another room they'll be within a stud wall (along with manifolds and other gubbins) with brushplates for necessary exits.Most of the Cat6 is now finished, coax still to do when I can find a tame satellite engineer.
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