Is a 997 GT3 less fun than a 3.2 Carrera?
Discussion
Is a 997 GT3 less fun than a 3.2 Carrera?
I've run a 1989 3.2 Carrera for over 12 years now and there simply, no other way to put it, than I simply love living with the beautifully compact machine. And I use it every single day. My wife has a new M Sport BMW, but I still choose the 3.2 if we're going out, even to the garden centre. It just seems to offer everything a sports car needs. Even today. Fast enough, needs understanding, scary if you want (even Derek Bell said he wouldn't trust one in the wet) practical, useable and in coupe form, still great to walk up to. Nowadays people disparagingly refer to if as the entry level 911. Really? Are you sure you know what you're missing?
I'm actively involved in Historic motor sport and have several other cars, one of which would easily be exchangeable for a modern 997 GT-3.
So I went to have a look at a GT3 RS (2007) at a dealers yesterday. I've read the road tests and clearly it can be nothing less than an epically capable machine. Visually arresting in default GP white with not-so-sure black alloys, topped with a shiny aftermarket shiny Carbon spoiler, presumably because the one Porsche developed, is simply not up to the job.
Anyhow, no doubt about it, the RS is wide hipped monster of a machine. It's status is the absolute benchmark and no doubt would make any (keen) driver look like a hero, simply because of its epic ability. Quite honestly it made my white 3.2 Carrera, look a bit like child's pedal car in comparison. And that's what it is, a car you have to pedal.
On my favourite stretch of road, you know the type, where you can see at least two bends ahead, I can max the 24 year old, air cooled Carrera through 2-3 gears and have several seconds to enjoy some red lined exhilaration. I wallow in the flat six howl and the narrow body, allows confidence when slipping between those pesky illuminated island bollards at night. The mechanically linked steering remains unbelievably precise allowing placement without fear. The car handles great up a point, but then you need to be resolved, just get on with steering, mostly leaving your right foot exactly where it was.
I've yet to drive the RS yet it, but here's what I think will pan out in the new car. That stretch of road will be over in 3 not 7 seconds and I'll never see the limit or anything near it on the public road. In fact the only thing that will be impressive about the drive, will be the car itself.
The acceleration will be ballistic and the car will no doubt handle any situation I would ever throw at it. No doubt much more too. All I will have to do is be bold and determined and I'll be well looked after. But if there's no limits achievable on the public road, below speeds even an enthusiast would call dangerous, will it be as much fun on the road, in the long term?
I look forward to finding out, but I'm not in any way convinced a modern GT-3 would be capable of beating the long term garage stay of the venerable old pedal car.
Anybody else owned a GT3 for a really long term?
I've run a 1989 3.2 Carrera for over 12 years now and there simply, no other way to put it, than I simply love living with the beautifully compact machine. And I use it every single day. My wife has a new M Sport BMW, but I still choose the 3.2 if we're going out, even to the garden centre. It just seems to offer everything a sports car needs. Even today. Fast enough, needs understanding, scary if you want (even Derek Bell said he wouldn't trust one in the wet) practical, useable and in coupe form, still great to walk up to. Nowadays people disparagingly refer to if as the entry level 911. Really? Are you sure you know what you're missing?
I'm actively involved in Historic motor sport and have several other cars, one of which would easily be exchangeable for a modern 997 GT-3.
So I went to have a look at a GT3 RS (2007) at a dealers yesterday. I've read the road tests and clearly it can be nothing less than an epically capable machine. Visually arresting in default GP white with not-so-sure black alloys, topped with a shiny aftermarket shiny Carbon spoiler, presumably because the one Porsche developed, is simply not up to the job.
Anyhow, no doubt about it, the RS is wide hipped monster of a machine. It's status is the absolute benchmark and no doubt would make any (keen) driver look like a hero, simply because of its epic ability. Quite honestly it made my white 3.2 Carrera, look a bit like child's pedal car in comparison. And that's what it is, a car you have to pedal.
On my favourite stretch of road, you know the type, where you can see at least two bends ahead, I can max the 24 year old, air cooled Carrera through 2-3 gears and have several seconds to enjoy some red lined exhilaration. I wallow in the flat six howl and the narrow body, allows confidence when slipping between those pesky illuminated island bollards at night. The mechanically linked steering remains unbelievably precise allowing placement without fear. The car handles great up a point, but then you need to be resolved, just get on with steering, mostly leaving your right foot exactly where it was.
I've yet to drive the RS yet it, but here's what I think will pan out in the new car. That stretch of road will be over in 3 not 7 seconds and I'll never see the limit or anything near it on the public road. In fact the only thing that will be impressive about the drive, will be the car itself.
The acceleration will be ballistic and the car will no doubt handle any situation I would ever throw at it. No doubt much more too. All I will have to do is be bold and determined and I'll be well looked after. But if there's no limits achievable on the public road, below speeds even an enthusiast would call dangerous, will it be as much fun on the road, in the long term?
I look forward to finding out, but I'm not in any way convinced a modern GT-3 would be capable of beating the long term garage stay of the venerable old pedal car.
Anybody else owned a GT3 for a really long term?
I have a similar dilemma, but involving a Caterham Superlight R and a potential move to a 997.1 GT3.
The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
fergus said:
I have a similar dilemma, but involving a Caterham Superlight R and a potential move to a 997.1 GT3.
The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
I would say that a 997 GT3 is also too quick for the public road if it is to be driven to be enjoyed.The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
Take your Caterham on track and rediscover why you bought it.
A question I was asking myself just before lunch while driving to the office.
I've just re taxed my 1989 3.2 convertible as the sun is shining and loved the 20 mile drive to work.
Made me so happy to drive it for first time since last summer especially as it's just had new roof and been fully detailed and looking amazing.
Yesterday I was driving my 2010 GT3 997 Gen 2 back from Porsche Tonbridge where I bought it last week and also had the pleasure of swapping over into my 996GT3 Gen 2 that my mate drove me up in to collect it. Was a right old blast down the A303 touching well over 150mph on more occasions than I should be writing on here.
I got back and said I enjoyed driving the 996 more than the 997 and today I really enjoyed driving the 3.2 more than both of them.
They are such different cars I guess it is probably best to never ever give up your 3.2 and get something else a bit more modern for when you need it. Having said that I drove 4000 miles in my 3.2 across Europe last summer in 10 days! It didn't miss a beat:-)
Happy days indeed....
I've just re taxed my 1989 3.2 convertible as the sun is shining and loved the 20 mile drive to work.
Made me so happy to drive it for first time since last summer especially as it's just had new roof and been fully detailed and looking amazing.
Yesterday I was driving my 2010 GT3 997 Gen 2 back from Porsche Tonbridge where I bought it last week and also had the pleasure of swapping over into my 996GT3 Gen 2 that my mate drove me up in to collect it. Was a right old blast down the A303 touching well over 150mph on more occasions than I should be writing on here.
I got back and said I enjoyed driving the 996 more than the 997 and today I really enjoyed driving the 3.2 more than both of them.
They are such different cars I guess it is probably best to never ever give up your 3.2 and get something else a bit more modern for when you need it. Having said that I drove 4000 miles in my 3.2 across Europe last summer in 10 days! It didn't miss a beat:-)
Happy days indeed....
Robbo66 said:
Trev450 said:
I would say that a 997 GT3 is also too quick for the public road if it is to be driven to be enjoyed.
Take your Caterham on track and rediscover why you bought it.
Totally agree. Take your Caterham on track and rediscover why you bought it.
How stealthy do people find GT3 when out on the road? With stock exhausts, how loud are they typically (dB)?
I only had my (ordinary 997.1 GT3) for 10 months - but I can say wholeheartedly that it's an amazing machine, even if extending 2nd gear to the 8,400rpm limiter takes you to 88mph, with 4 gears to go!!
Of course you can pootle around just like your 3.2 - but if you do want to poke it with a stick and take it to it's limits then you'll discover that they are so much higher than you're used to - it'll be like a night and day experience and your 3.2 will feel slow and wooly.... On the plus side, it'll probably take you a while to get to those limits on the road (you have to keep egging yourself on to start with) so there is a learning curve to enjoy!
I gave a demo to one of my friends on a deserted dual carriageway, with roundabouts every few miles (perfect for demonstating the "unseen hand" of the PCCBs and sheer grip of the Cup tyres) and he said: "this isn't a car - it's a weapon"! And he drives a TVR Griffith 500!
So like they say - "it's not the gun that's dangerous it's the person who pulls the trigger".
I still miss the brakes and the "increasingly urgent" acceleration as the revs climb though the howl, into a wail and then the racing car scream at the top end; but I've decided that I couldn't really use it hard enough and when I did I was risking my liberty. It's new owner is enjoying her much more than I did - but he's having to take her to the deserted roads of Wales to do so .....
Of course you can pootle around just like your 3.2 - but if you do want to poke it with a stick and take it to it's limits then you'll discover that they are so much higher than you're used to - it'll be like a night and day experience and your 3.2 will feel slow and wooly.... On the plus side, it'll probably take you a while to get to those limits on the road (you have to keep egging yourself on to start with) so there is a learning curve to enjoy!
I gave a demo to one of my friends on a deserted dual carriageway, with roundabouts every few miles (perfect for demonstating the "unseen hand" of the PCCBs and sheer grip of the Cup tyres) and he said: "this isn't a car - it's a weapon"! And he drives a TVR Griffith 500!
So like they say - "it's not the gun that's dangerous it's the person who pulls the trigger".
I still miss the brakes and the "increasingly urgent" acceleration as the revs climb though the howl, into a wail and then the racing car scream at the top end; but I've decided that I couldn't really use it hard enough and when I did I was risking my liberty. It's new owner is enjoying her much more than I did - but he's having to take her to the deserted roads of Wales to do so .....
Edited by MadMark981 on Thursday 6th June 17:36
fergus said:
I have a similar dilemma, but involving a Caterham Superlight R and a potential move to a 997.1 GT3.
The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
My parents live on one side of the Chilterns and I live on the other - so I suspect the GT3 wouldn't solve anything as I was driving on similar roads!The Caterham is now too fast for most roads, although is very cheap to mend if the worst happens. I'm running out of places where I can justify driving it (Chilterns, Bucks). I'm wondering whether the urge for a GT3 would solve anything?
crbox said:
Is a 997 GT3 less fun than a 3.2 Carrera?
I've run a 1989 3.2 Carrera for over 12 years now and there simply, no other way to put it, than I simply love living with the beautifully compact machine. And I use it every single day. My wife has a new M Sport BMW, but I still choose the 3.2 if we're going out, even to the garden centre. It just seems to offer everything a sports car needs. Even today. Fast enough, needs understanding, scary if you want (even Derek Bell said he wouldn't trust one in the wet) practical, useable and in coupe form, still great to walk up to. Nowadays people disparagingly refer to if as the entry level 911. Really? Are you sure you know what you're missing?
I'm actively involved in Historic motor sport and have several other cars, one of which would easily be exchangeable for a modern 997 GT-3.
So I went to have a look at a GT3 RS (2007) at a dealers yesterday. I've read the road tests and clearly it can be nothing less than an epically capable machine. Visually arresting in default GP white with not-so-sure black alloys, topped with a shiny aftermarket shiny Carbon spoiler, presumably because the one Porsche developed, is simply not up to the job.
Anyhow, no doubt about it, the RS is wide hipped monster of a machine. It's status is the absolute benchmark and no doubt would make any (keen) driver look like a hero, simply because of its epic ability. Quite honestly it made my white 3.2 Carrera, look a bit like child's pedal car in comparison. And that's what it is, a car you have to pedal.
On my favourite stretch of road, you know the type, where you can see at least two bends ahead, I can max the 24 year old, air cooled Carrera through 2-3 gears and have several seconds to enjoy some red lined exhilaration. I wallow in the flat six howl and the narrow body, allows confidence when slipping between those pesky illuminated island bollards at night. The mechanically linked steering remains unbelievably precise allowing placement without fear. The car handles great up a point, but then you need to be resolved, just get on with steering, mostly leaving your right foot exactly where it was.
I've yet to drive the RS yet it, but here's what I think will pan out in the new car. That stretch of road will be over in 3 not 7 seconds and I'll never see the limit or anything near it on the public road. In fact the only thing that will be impressive about the drive, will be the car itself.
The acceleration will be ballistic and the car will no doubt handle any situation I would ever throw at it. No doubt much more too. All I will have to do is be bold and determined and I'll be well looked after. But if there's no limits achievable on the public road, below speeds even an enthusiast would call dangerous, will it be as much fun on the road, in the long term?
I look forward to finding out, but I'm not in any way convinced a modern GT-3 would be capable of beating the long term garage stay of the venerable old pedal car.
Anybody else owned a GT3 for a really long term?
Its not a 997 Gt3 but I have a 996 Gt3rs which I sold a 964 turbo(3.3) to buy..i have to say personally the later car is way more fun to drive and far more capable allround..I don't know about the 997 but finding the limits/or mine on the road in the Rs is quite easy..its quite unforgiving and needs a bit of driving...its certainly not a point and nail it car like a Turb or Gtr etc.,It therefore remains an eventful challenge to drive and not likely to get boring imo.I've run a 1989 3.2 Carrera for over 12 years now and there simply, no other way to put it, than I simply love living with the beautifully compact machine. And I use it every single day. My wife has a new M Sport BMW, but I still choose the 3.2 if we're going out, even to the garden centre. It just seems to offer everything a sports car needs. Even today. Fast enough, needs understanding, scary if you want (even Derek Bell said he wouldn't trust one in the wet) practical, useable and in coupe form, still great to walk up to. Nowadays people disparagingly refer to if as the entry level 911. Really? Are you sure you know what you're missing?
I'm actively involved in Historic motor sport and have several other cars, one of which would easily be exchangeable for a modern 997 GT-3.
So I went to have a look at a GT3 RS (2007) at a dealers yesterday. I've read the road tests and clearly it can be nothing less than an epically capable machine. Visually arresting in default GP white with not-so-sure black alloys, topped with a shiny aftermarket shiny Carbon spoiler, presumably because the one Porsche developed, is simply not up to the job.
Anyhow, no doubt about it, the RS is wide hipped monster of a machine. It's status is the absolute benchmark and no doubt would make any (keen) driver look like a hero, simply because of its epic ability. Quite honestly it made my white 3.2 Carrera, look a bit like child's pedal car in comparison. And that's what it is, a car you have to pedal.
On my favourite stretch of road, you know the type, where you can see at least two bends ahead, I can max the 24 year old, air cooled Carrera through 2-3 gears and have several seconds to enjoy some red lined exhilaration. I wallow in the flat six howl and the narrow body, allows confidence when slipping between those pesky illuminated island bollards at night. The mechanically linked steering remains unbelievably precise allowing placement without fear. The car handles great up a point, but then you need to be resolved, just get on with steering, mostly leaving your right foot exactly where it was.
I've yet to drive the RS yet it, but here's what I think will pan out in the new car. That stretch of road will be over in 3 not 7 seconds and I'll never see the limit or anything near it on the public road. In fact the only thing that will be impressive about the drive, will be the car itself.
The acceleration will be ballistic and the car will no doubt handle any situation I would ever throw at it. No doubt much more too. All I will have to do is be bold and determined and I'll be well looked after. But if there's no limits achievable on the public road, below speeds even an enthusiast would call dangerous, will it be as much fun on the road, in the long term?
I look forward to finding out, but I'm not in any way convinced a modern GT-3 would be capable of beating the long term garage stay of the venerable old pedal car.
Anybody else owned a GT3 for a really long term?
fergus said:
O/T It practically lived over at the Ring for 6 years (with 6-7 trips a year on average).... I find UK trackdays are very dull by comparison. I've raced at most of them, so being stuck in a processsion on a UK t/day has limited appeal.
?
I was actually refering to racing and not td's. Since you have however already done this I would have to say that virtually any car driven on the road in comparison to competiton is going to be rather dull. ?
The think I always say at this stage of the GT3 debate is that it feels special at all speeds which is why I like it so much. But that's normally an argument for GT3 v Turbo!
In a sense that's exactly what the Caterham does too. Perhaps if the Caterham is too fast for UK roads, get a slower one? Serious suggestion!
Bert
In a sense that's exactly what the Caterham does too. Perhaps if the Caterham is too fast for UK roads, get a slower one? Serious suggestion!
Bert
I had a go in a regular spec Gen1 997 GT3 at Silverstone recently. I used to race Carrera Cup GB and considering it was on road tyres the response and balance were remarkably similar to a Cup car, although the grip levels were obviously lower
Absolutely hands down the best road car I've ever driven on track by a mile, and fairly pointless in terms of enjoyment unless you're capable of extending it to it's very high limits IMHO.
If you're not a racing driver and/or not bothered about being the fastest thing on the track day then I can easily imagine having just as much fun in something with lower limits that's cheaper to fix if you bin it.
Absolutely hands down the best road car I've ever driven on track by a mile, and fairly pointless in terms of enjoyment unless you're capable of extending it to it's very high limits IMHO.
If you're not a racing driver and/or not bothered about being the fastest thing on the track day then I can easily imagine having just as much fun in something with lower limits that's cheaper to fix if you bin it.
Your perception of the GT3 is spot on. Had a 997.1 GT3 club sport with PCCB for about 6 months covering 3k miles.
Hugely capable car, totally enthralling BUT only at speeds which mean you WILL lose your license. Great if you do track days, but for the road I have fonder memories of my 996 Carrera.
If you enjoy your current car, stick with it and enjoy the fun of driving a sports car at sensible speeds
Just my 2p worth
Dave
Hugely capable car, totally enthralling BUT only at speeds which mean you WILL lose your license. Great if you do track days, but for the road I have fonder memories of my 996 Carrera.
If you enjoy your current car, stick with it and enjoy the fun of driving a sports car at sensible speeds
Just my 2p worth
Dave
I dont know about a 3.2 but years ago (after 11 years of ownership) I sold my LHD 2.7 RS for a modern Porsche.
It was epic (220 hp and 990kg) on many levels but felt very dated on even more. The non linear steering, sloppy gear shift and so so brakes on the 2.7 RS were excellent for the 70's but not now. And heating/ventilation and wind noise. Dont make me laugh!
The controls have been developed so much as models evolved and to me, thats more important than skinny tyred fun. You can snick the gear lever in a GT3 compared to pudding beating in a 70's 911
I also tired of six month services at a distant specialist (Bob Watson) and bodywork rust that kept re-appearing
A re-engineered replica could fix many of the issues with a genuine older model of course, at a price.
Each to their own
Nic
It was epic (220 hp and 990kg) on many levels but felt very dated on even more. The non linear steering, sloppy gear shift and so so brakes on the 2.7 RS were excellent for the 70's but not now. And heating/ventilation and wind noise. Dont make me laugh!
The controls have been developed so much as models evolved and to me, thats more important than skinny tyred fun. You can snick the gear lever in a GT3 compared to pudding beating in a 70's 911
I also tired of six month services at a distant specialist (Bob Watson) and bodywork rust that kept re-appearing
A re-engineered replica could fix many of the issues with a genuine older model of course, at a price.
Each to their own
Nic
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