Heavy Breathing

[robgt]

Spoke to Mike at Bamford Rose today , he was in the Dyno room with Jessica who has been used to develop my dual induction system and twin throttle bodies. Even down the phone the car sounds fantastic ! you can hear that unique sucking of air sound. I am keeping this clean by the way! The car sounds awesome. I don't know as yet what the gains will be , I am going to guess at 25_30 BHP. That coupled with the manifolds which were already giving a max of 460 BHP should mean a 4.7 V8 should be knocking on the door of 500BHP.

This exciting development By BR now begs the question as to who needs a V12. Bear in mind the next stage is the fitting of 5ltr pistons and cylinder heads which should then bring the power upto 550BHP .

[J12MOC]

Great stuff Rob...another for my list of things to do after suspension mods

[V12woollie]

Sounds good. What will the torque figures be as they mean more than bhp for driveability. This closes the V8 to V12 gap but of course the reason for the V12 is that you can keep ahead of the game with just manifolds and cats

Edited by V12woollie on Friday 7th June 21:46

[robgt]

Simon fair point . I am not sure of the increased torque figures, Purdey showed a healthy increase just with the manifolds . The induction mods have just been developed. I am sure BR Mike will be posting soon. By the time the engine goes to 5ltr there should be a substantial increase . Bearing in mind that it will also be gas flowed and ported. So basically a race spec motor that will be 100% reliable.

[whoami]

robgt said:

This exciting development By BR now begs the question as to who needs a V12. Bear in mind the next stage is the fitting of 5ltr pistons and cylinder heads which should then bring the power upto 550BHP .

Because you get all of that without the requisite messing about?

[V12woollie]

whoami said:

Because you get all of that without the requisite messing about?

And probably at less cost. You've got to be talking the best part of £50K for all that plus the £40K+ for the 4.7 V8. Firmly in V12V territory at that cost.

[robgt]

Sorry Simon nothing like the figure you mentioned . The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K . The next phase is the induction side , that in combination with the existing features should give approx 500 BHP. All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.
As to the 5 ltr job I honestly have no idea what that will come to. There is actually 2 aspects to that. One , fit 5 ltr cylinder heads which will give approx 25 BHP . Two , pop in the 5 ltr pistons there is the other 25BHP. Total 550 BHP.
I know that a lot of you out ther love your V12's ,I prefer the dynamics of the V8 coupled with the BR sorted ASM 2 gearbox. My knackered knees prefer there to be no clutch. It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S . I am not a gambling man though I know what would win . All proceeds to The County Air Ambulance. Any takers?

[whoami]

robgt said:

Sorry Simon nothing like the figure you mentioned . The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K . The next phase is the induction side , that in combination with the existing features should give approx 500 BHP. All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.
As to the 5 ltr job I honestly have no idea what that will come to. There is actually 2 aspects to that. One , fit 5 ltr cylinder heads which will give approx 25 BHP . Two , pop in the 5 ltr pistons there is the other 25BHP. Total 550 BHP.
I know that a lot of you out ther love your V12's ,I prefer the dynamics of the V8 coupled with the BR sorted ASM 2 gearbox. My knackered knees prefer there to be no clutch. It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S . I am not a gambling man though I know what would win . All proceeds to The County Air Ambulance. Any takers?

Rob, what does the >80Kg weight reduction comprise of?

[V12woollie]

robgt said:

Sorry Simon nothing like the figure you mentioned . The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K . The next phase is the induction side , that in combination with the existing features should give approx 500 BHP. All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.
As to the 5 ltr job I honestly have no idea what that will come to. There is actually 2 aspects to that. One , fit 5 ltr cylinder heads which will give approx 25 BHP . Two , pop in the 5 ltr pistons there is the other 25BHP. Total 550 BHP.
I know that a lot of you out ther love your V12's ,I prefer the dynamics of the V8 coupled with the BR sorted ASM 2 gearbox. My knackered knees prefer there to be no clutch. It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S . I am not a gambling man though I know what would win . All proceeds to The County Air Ambulance. Any takers?

Sounds like a compelling argument

I was basing the c£50K on the fact that a Jessica conversion I was told would be the better part of £30K, and that was 18 months ago so I assume things have gone up and also things are being added to the original Jessica mix (not sure it had the induction side done originally). I can see the logic in taking a V8VS to this level, although I suspect more work would be needed on a standard 4.3 or 4.7 as the S had enhanced brakes and steering amongst other things. And I understand that you like the paddles, so a V8VS versus V12VS would indeed be interesting. I assume you will also be looking at more rubber on the road with 550bhp under your right foot?

All that said, the torque is still the more important figure than straight bhp, and particularly the shape of the torque curve. That will be the interesting part of the V8VS vs V12VS showdown - not how fast they can go but how they get there.

Of course we love our V12Vs, and of course I have new a found love However, as a basis, I can probably get to 650-700bhp with associated improvements in torque if I wanted to spend the money. But to be honest, the V8V was fast enough for most roads I drive on, so I get no benefit from the V12V is absolute speed. I do get immense benefit in how it gets to that speed though, which is why I look forward to hearing about the torque increases.

I also look forward to continuing this discussion over some beverages in Wales

[V12woollie]

whoami said:

Rob, what does the >80Kg weight reduction comprise of?

Bear in mind also that according to AM the kerb weight of the V8VS is 1610 KG and that of the V12VS is 1665 KG so not a lot in it. So even the V8VS maxxed out with mods, the V12VS will have more bhp (565) and more torque (457). I base the bhp on Rob's estimate of 550 bhp and the torque on the fact that the standard V8VS had 361nm, so unless BR will find near on 100nm in the mods then the V12VS would have more.

The 80kg of weight saving in the V8VS would make a difference though. So, that would indeed be a great showdown for a future edition of Vantage mag

[woolders]

Rob, is the weight saving due to giving up booze?

[michael gould]

whoami said:

robgt said:

Sorry Simon nothing like the figure you mentioned . The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K . The next phase is the induction side , that in combination with the existing features should give approx 500 BHP. All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.
As to the 5 ltr job I honestly have no idea what that will come to. There is actually 2 aspects to that. One , fit 5 ltr cylinder heads which will give approx 25 BHP . Two , pop in the 5 ltr pistons there is the other 25BHP. Total 550 BHP.
I know that a lot of you out ther love your V12's ,I prefer the dynamics of the V8 coupled with the BR sorted ASM 2 gearbox. My knackered knees prefer there to be no clutch. It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S . I am not a gambling man though I know what would win . All proceeds to The County Air Ambulance. Any takers?

Rob, what does the >80Kg weight reduction comprise of?

An extra 4 cylinders must have something to do with the weight reduction......that V12 is some lump

[divetheworld]

robgt said:

The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K.

Is that all? Did that include Cats? That's good value if you ask me.

[J12MOC]

divetheworld said:

Is that all? Did that include Cats? That's good value if you ask me.

When I spoke to Mike recently I think the costs were about £4k for adjustable suspension and £5k for manifolds and cats. Mine will be a manual so can save the extra cost of the transmission mods.

[DAMIT]

J12MOC said:

When I spoke to Mike recently I think the costs were about £4k for adjustable suspension and £5k for manifolds and cats. Mine will be a manual so can save the extra cost of the transmission mods.

Is that with or without VAT?

[whoami]

michael gould said:

whoami said:

robgt said:

Sorry Simon nothing like the figure you mentioned . The enhancements on Purdey ie manifolds ,suspension, flywheel and twin plate clutch as quoted by Vantage magazine came to £15K . The next phase is the induction side , that in combination with the existing features should give approx 500 BHP. All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.
As to the 5 ltr job I honestly have no idea what that will come to. There is actually 2 aspects to that. One , fit 5 ltr cylinder heads which will give approx 25 BHP . Two , pop in the 5 ltr pistons there is the other 25BHP. Total 550 BHP.
I know that a lot of you out ther love your V12's ,I prefer the dynamics of the V8 coupled with the BR sorted ASM 2 gearbox. My knackered knees prefer there to be no clutch. It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S . I am not a gambling man though I know what would win . All proceeds to The County Air Ambulance. Any takers?

Rob, what does the >80Kg weight reduction comprise of?

An extra 4 cylinders must have something to do with the weight reduction......that V12 is some lump

Agreed but Rob/BR have shaved c83kg from the standard V8 s weight and I'm curious to learn from where.

[mikey k]

robgt said:

It would be interesting to post some lap times of Millbrook with a full spec BR V8 5 ltr against the new V12 S

If there are times for the V12VS BR will be able to post 5.0 GT4 V8VS times later in the year

[mikey k]

whoami said:

robgt said:

All that in a package that has a nose weight some 153 kilos lighter than a V12 with far more sophisticated suspension plus an engine that revs like a bd.

Rob, what does the >80Kg weight reduction comprise of?

It comes from the difference in weight between the engines
However Rob has overlooked the weight reduction in other areas of the V12V that gives a small nett difference
Then again the V8 will have a lot less weight over the nose so the balance should be better

Edited by mikey k on Saturday 8th June 17:15

[V12woollie]

mikey k said:

It comes from the difference in weight between the engines
However Rob has overlooked the weight reduction in other areas of the V12V that gives a small nett difference
Then again the V8 will have a lot less weight over the nose so the balance should be better

Edited by mikey k on Saturday 8th June 17:15

I think I am correct in that the weight distribution of all Vantages is 51/49, including the V12V. So regardless of weight the balance should be the same.

[robgt]

Oops have I started something. Anyway I need a bit of excitement in my life just know. On the weight subject the ASM2 gearbox I think is 30 kilos lighter than the V12's manual , lose the cats there's some more , then there is that big V12 lump.

Fact is we all own truly fabulous cars, whether we choose to keep them standard or enhance them is a personal thing. I don't believe any other marque can summon up so much emotion. We can all buy more ultimate performance for less than the cost of our Astons , I for one am not interested.

What amazes is the horrific depreciation. Why does it have to be so? Some silly beggars pay list only to see an initial drop of £ 25 - 30K . There is shortly going to be a shortage of new car stock, hopefully that will strengthen residuals. This brings me back to enhancements . I am sure you have all read Vantage Magazine by know. At the end of the article the Journalist states. that you can buy an early V8 for a nominal sum , the car is pumping out 380BHP take it to BR get them to do the full monty and you have a Jessica clone! So you could have a monster car for £65 to 70 K .

Simon I shall look forward to seeing you and everyone else in Wales. Woolders you are a cheeky Devil! I am still on the Wagon by the way. Molly is so pleased.