This is a great vid, amazing GTR at donny racing ..

[mrdemon]

All this talk on the 991 GT3 and Nissan GTR and 991 turbo etc etc.

forget it all and just watch this race.
I have no words, but the GTR and driver own every thing.

http://youtu.be/Xi2YRj6gqBA

[boxsey]

Indeed the GTR race car does 'own' the other cars in that race. However, it is worth noting that the GTR was chucked out of this year's British GT championship because last year it was piloted by two young GTR academy drivers that are destined for great things in the future. The rest of the cars were piloted by a Pro driver and an owner driver e.g. the trackspeed 997GT3R was owned by David Ashburn who had Richard Westbrook as his pro-driver. The rules of the championship say this is how the driving should be structured. Go to any round of the British GT and you'll see how much quicker each car goes when the Pro swaps into the car half way through the race. In the case of the GTR (last year) it effectively had two Pro drivers and was just as fast before and after the driver changeover. So the video clip also says a lot about the drivers and it's not just the cars.

P.s. See you at Donny....when we'll be going a lot slower!

[mrdemon]

yes they were thrown out, but GTR academy drivers imo are not fully pro race drivers yet are they ?

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1082228_nissan-...

the main thing for the 4 guys kicked out !!!
"aren’t experienced enough to be pros" and still in their teens I think.

so the 4 poor guys cannot be Pro's yet but cannot race !!

Stinks of sour grapes imo as the GTR was just on another level, driver or not, the other drivers need to pick up the pace in that vid lol.

[boxsey]

Come on Mr D, you and I well know that the young academy drivers, whether they are allowed to be a Pro or not, are a long way ahead of the fat/balding/old* gentlemen drivers that start the race in the other cars.

And we also know that a GTR race car is a different beast to a normal GTR. While I've seen normal GTRs doing a few very fast laps on trackdays, I've never seen them pounding round lap after lap.....unlike normal GT3s do.

• delete as appropriate

[Carl_Docklands]

Well, if we ever see a 1,550KG Nismo GTR, it will be a great EVO group test

[keep it lit]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VltQ7F5WLxo

[Steve Rance]

Anyone with any background in racing knows exactly how things work in most series. It all comes down to money and generally the quick guys don't have any. A team who is fully funded and can pick its ideal driver line up will almost certainly win. If they also benefit works assistance, it's pretty much a forgone conclusion. This can also often be reflected in FIA GT. even at that level, budgets are regularly made up with Billy drivers. Teams that don't have them do the winning

[toppstuff]

keep it lit said:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VltQ7F5WLxo

Crikey. I've never seen so many wrong lines and missed apexes. And I thought I was rubbish on a track...

[BertBert]

That's about 2 seconds a lap quicker than I've driven round there
The Donington one that is!
BErt

Edited by BertBert on Thursday 13th June 23:13

[keep it lit]

toppstuff said:

keep it lit said:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VltQ7F5WLxo

Crikey. I've never seen so many wrong lines and missed apexes. And I thought I was rubbish on a track...

that's the point

[Red9]

boxsey said:

long way ahead of the fat/balding/old* gentlemen drivers that start the race in the other cars.

You mean the guys who have spent their time working for a living to create the situation that they can afford to go racing?
As distinct from a generation of wannabes whose not so great skill is to suck up to people that to help them spend someone else's hard earned !!Staight out of the long held motorsport tradition that the ideal sponsor is OPM = Other People's Money !!

A few of you guys ought to learn to think before commenting !!

[Steve Rance]

Absolutely. Motor racing at almost every level is funded by paying drivers, some of which take themselves near to or actually become bankrupted in the persuit of their passion. Many of these guys not only put every last penny into racing but also all of thier time preparing their cars ready for the next race. I fully agree with you. Theses Guys (and ladies) are the backbone of motorsport and should be celebrated not denigrated.

[boxsey]

Red9 said:

boxsey said:

long way ahead of the fat/balding/old* gentlemen drivers that start the race in the other cars.

You mean the guys who have spent their time working for a living to create the situation that they can afford to go racing?
As distinct from a generation of wannabes whose not so great skill is to suck up to people that to help them spend someone else's hard earned !!Staight out of the long held motorsport tradition that the ideal sponsor is OPM = Other People's Money !!

A few of you guys ought to learn to think before commenting !!

It was meant in jest (hence the smiley) but I knew it was likely to be taken the wrong way by some. I was trying to make the point that one team broke the rules by putting in young bucks and that's why they got kicked out. FWIW I have nothing but admiration for the owner drivers. It is they that have made the British GT championship what it is. It has gone from strength to strength in recent years (I go to watch regularly) and the owner drivers are the reason why we now see the likes of Westbrook, Tandy and Harvey alongside them. I'm glad the GTR team were pulled up for breaking the rules because if they hadn't, the owners that effectively fund the series would rightly have pulled the plug. As you can see, I do know how it works.

[toppstuff]

boxsey said:

It was meant in jest (hence the smiley) but I knew it was likely to be taken the wrong way by some. I was trying to make the point that one team broke the rules by putting in young bucks and that's why they got kicked out. FWIW I have nothing but admiration for the owner drivers. It is they that have made the British GT championship what it is. It has gone from strength to strength in recent years (I go to watch regularly) and the owner drivers are the reason why we now see the likes of Westbrook, Tandy and Harvey alongside them. I'm glad the GTR team were pulled up for breaking the rules because if they hadn't, the owners that effectively fund the series would rightly have pulled the plug. As you can see, I do know how it works.

That's really interesting. I was'nt aware of the circumstances behind it, but I think there are two ways to look at this.

I actually have some sympathy for the Nissan Academy and the GTR team. After all, these "young bucks" were inexperienced youngsters and the organisors were presumably happy to take their entry fees from the team. To then subsequently get upset because these young lads are "too good" does, you could argue, not reflect all that well on the championship.

If the British GT3 championship is really a "gentlemen's racing series" then it should think about it's brand and positioning and tell the world that it is not a serious, competitive series. GT3 racing in other countries is highly competitive. Is the British GT3 championship telling the world that it is not a competitive series, if it is prepared to eject drivers who make the old guard look bad?

Now the Donnington video posted here does illustrate how a well driven GT-R can make 458 challenge and McLaren MP4's look slow, but that is'nt the point. The British GT3 championship is either a serious, competitive competition or it is not. It is not Nissan's fault that their academy drivers are too good for the gentlemen racers.

Maybe the gentlemen racers in British GT3 are in the wrong series?

[Penguinracer]

On a driving related note...I recall reading a published interview with Nigel Mansell a couple of years ago in which he basically said that apex speed was everything, because after the apex you foot is flat to the floor in any case. In that video footage, GTR apart, there seems to be a serious lack of apex speed. But then I suppose if you've funded the car yourself caution may overcome commitment - but then why go racing if you're worried about the cost of binning it?

[spyderman8]

Penguinracer said:

On a driving related note...I recall reading a published interview with Nigel Mansell a couple of years ago in which he basically said that apex speed was everything, because after the apex you foot is flat to the floor in any case.

The vast majority of the time that's quite true. Crikey - I agree with Nigel Mansell!

[quote]In that video footage, GTR apart, there seems to be a serious lack of apex speed.

Neither car seemed to plant it out of corners and braking was generally too early and too gentle. And sometimes you'd need a bicycle to get to the apex. But neither are race cars, are they?

[quote]But then I suppose if you've funded the car yourself caution may overcome commitment - but then why go racing if you're worried about the cost of binning it?

A good question. I now own my race car (rather than rent it) but I'm still getting quicker. Either I'm braver, or more stupid. Or possibly both.

[jackal]

keep it lit said:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VltQ7F5WLxo

There you go Demon, you can now trundle off and post that one on the GTR forums.

[fergus]

toppstuff said:

Now the Donnington video posted here does illustrate how a well driven GT-R can make 458 challenge and McLaren MP4's look slow, but that is'nt the point. The British GT3 championship is either a serious, competitive competition or it is not. It is not Nissan's fault that their academy drivers are too good for the gentlemen racers.

Maybe the gentlemen racers in British GT3 are in the wrong series?

+1

A fat wallet does not make a fast driver. Look at most of the pro-am or gentleman vs pro lap times for evidence of this. Some of the overtakes in the Donington clip would never happen if the field were all of a similar standard, as the cars should be fairly evenly matched

[BertBert]

Penguinracer said:

On a driving related note...I recall reading a published interview with Nigel Mansell a couple of years ago in which he basically said that apex speed was everything, because after the apex you foot is flat to the floor in any case.

But what does that mean? It doesn't mean the greatest apex speed in all cases, it means the right one.
In the Radical I was consistently slower in lap times than a guy (driving my car) who was always slower than me at the apex. And keeping momentum in corners in the Radical is vital. Talking with Andy Wallace about some fat turbo-charged monsters he's driven and the apex speed is irrelevant. The important thing is getting on the gas in straight line after the apex.

fergus said:

Some of the overtakes in the Donington clip would never happen if the field were all of a similar standard, as the cars should be fairly evenly matched

Not sure I entirely agree with this. In a multi-marque series you will get quite a big performance difference in the cars as well as the drivers. The nissan looks to be able to brake and accelerate fairly well to me.

BErt