Undercooking burgers made from mince
Discussion
According to the interweb, it's safe to undercook a joint of meat / steak etc as the 'bugs' are on the outside of the joint and get killed in the cooking process.
Apparently the act of mincing mixes these bugs from the outside into the meat pattie, therefore it's unsafe to cook pink.
I buy the my meat in joint form from the butchers and mince it myself, but according to the above it's still unsafe to cook it rare?
I've never got ill doing this, and I always eat my burgers rare, can anyone else shed any light on this or is it just interweb scaremongering?
Thanks
Apparently the act of mincing mixes these bugs from the outside into the meat pattie, therefore it's unsafe to cook pink.
I buy the my meat in joint form from the butchers and mince it myself, but according to the above it's still unsafe to cook it rare?
I've never got ill doing this, and I always eat my burgers rare, can anyone else shed any light on this or is it just interweb scaremongering?
Thanks
flyingjase said:
According to the interweb, it's safe to undercook a joint of meat / steak etc as the 'bugs' are on the outside of the joint and get killed in the cooking process.
Apparently the act of mincing mixes these bugs from the outside into the meat pattie, therefore it's unsafe to cook pink.
I buy the my meat in joint form from the butchers and mince it myself, but according to the above it's still unsafe to cook it rare?
I've never got ill doing this, and I always eat my burgers rare, can anyone else shed any light on this or is it just interweb scaremongering?
Thanks
Are you dead yet? NoApparently the act of mincing mixes these bugs from the outside into the meat pattie, therefore it's unsafe to cook pink.
I buy the my meat in joint form from the butchers and mince it myself, but according to the above it's still unsafe to cook it rare?
I've never got ill doing this, and I always eat my burgers rare, can anyone else shed any light on this or is it just interweb scaremongering?
Thanks
It is true- the bugs are only on the outside of red meat, killed by searing and it is all safe to eat. Mincing a burger puts the bugs all through it, some will not be killed if the burger is served rare.
But you've an ancient and vicious immune system in the mouth, then an acid bath. You'll get away with it 999 times out of 1000. Even with raw chicken.
But you've an ancient and vicious immune system in the mouth, then an acid bath. You'll get away with it 999 times out of 1000. Even with raw chicken.
I eat a fair bit of (home made) biltong and beef jerky, which is 100% raw beef inside and out. Just dried in a room temperature room with a fan to slowly dry out the meat. No heat to cook the bugs whatsoever. I eat it rare on day 1 and 2 (if thin enough) and medium to well dry on day 3-5 if thicker cuts are used.
Beef doesn't worry me. Unless it is alive, horned and in the process of chasing me.
So long as its fresh.
Pork, fish and chicken do worry me, very much.
Beef doesn't worry me. Unless it is alive, horned and in the process of chasing me.
So long as its fresh.
Pork, fish and chicken do worry me, very much.
On my understanding, the recommendation is to cook the burger until the inside gets to 155 C. This is about medium, thus the headlines about no food places being able to serve rare.
The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
randlemarcus said:
On my understanding, the recommendation is to cook the burger until the inside gets to 155 C. This is about medium, thus the headlines about no food places being able to serve rare.
The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
Finally, someone that knows what they are talking about. A few of us have obviously read the concerns of the OP, without also hearing the reasoning behind the concerns.The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
I commend you, E Coli Jedi.
Turn to the dark side, I shall command you as well.
Mobsta said:
randlemarcus said:
On my understanding, the recommendation is to cook the burger until the inside gets to 155 C. This is about medium, thus the headlines about no food places being able to serve rare.
The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
Finally, someone that knows what they are talking about. A few of us have obviously read the concerns of the OP, without also hearing the reasoning behind the concerns.The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
I commend you, E Coli Jedi.
Turn to the dark side, I shall command you as well.
I'm wondering if food-poisoning-from-undercooked-mince is a myth more likely to have been caused by salmonella from the egg yolks used in steak tartare.
randlemarcus said:
On my understanding, the recommendation is to cook the burger until the inside gets to 155 C. This is about medium, thus the headlines about no food places being able to serve rare.
The sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
160F or 71CThe sciency bit is that there is justifiable concern over E Coli (which dies at 155C). This comes from the bowels of the cow getting into the meat. It only flourishes on the outside, thus the "beware minced" thing.
Doing it yourself minimises the risk of the bacteria, but doesn't eliminate it. Personally, I think medium-rare is about right.
http://www.fda.gov/Food/FoodborneIllnessContaminan...
TWRv12 said:
Good spot of the deliberate error with C and F
It's a little more complex than that, being a sliding scale of how hot for how long (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/acmsfburgers0807.pdf), but somewhere around there will do the trick.
You should trim the outside meat if you want to eat it raw or rare.randlemarcus said:
Good spot of the deliberate error with C and F
It's a little more complex than that, being a sliding scale of how hot for how long (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/acmsfburgers0807.pdf), but somewhere around there will do the trick.
I was taught 80C for 2 mins kills 99%,then your body can deal with the rest, so not exactly well done.It's a little more complex than that, being a sliding scale of how hot for how long (http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/acmsfburgers0807.pdf), but somewhere around there will do the trick.
But yes if you mince the meat, so the outside goes to the inside, that does mean at the centre of the burger.
Biltong is dried meat, the bugs need moisture to survive, hence drying is a viable preservation process. Not sure I'd want a burger made from minced biltong, though?
Mobile Chicane said:
Modern slaughterhouse practices should surely prevent the cow's bowel contents getting into contact with the rest of the carcass?
I'm wondering if food-poisoning-from-undercooked-mince is a myth more likely to have been caused by salmonella from the egg yolks used in steak tartare.
I was going to ask that question - so a tartare should be prepared having cut the outer layer off first then? I'm wondering if food-poisoning-from-undercooked-mince is a myth more likely to have been caused by salmonella from the egg yolks used in steak tartare.
I thought the reason for not cooking mince burgers pink was that you didn't know which bits of random offcuts were in butchers mince and using quality cuts (minced yourself or from a reliable source) got round that problem?
Steve H said:
I thought the reason for not cooking mince burgers pink was that you didn't know which bits of random offcuts were in butchers mince and using quality cuts (minced yourself or from a reliable source) got round that problem?
Nope. You can eat all raw meat. It is the bacteria that get you. It takes time for the bacteria to grow, cooking kills them. deeen said:
Biltong is dried meat, the bugs need moisture to survive, hence drying is a viable preservation process. Not sure I'd want a burger made from minced biltong, though?
our kitchen counters, dry dish cloths and toilet seats are dry. I presumed on listening to others, every 'dirty' surface was teeming in bacteria, wet or dry.Biltong should be moist and bendy, so... Can't comment further, beef has never made me ill.
So maccy Ds can't be wrong as they serve the world with god knows how many burgers per day.
I'm in the camp of cook meat through as I don't do this rare thing.
I made approximately 10 thousand burgers last year of business in my Butchers shop and never had anybody come back with bad guts and alike.
I'm in the camp of cook meat through as I don't do this rare thing.
I made approximately 10 thousand burgers last year of business in my Butchers shop and never had anybody come back with bad guts and alike.
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