How to make a Tamora ride like a Sagaris...

[Don1]

Two days back to back on track with the two cars, and what a difference. The Tamora is stupidly quick, but so agricultural through the corners. The Sag is slower, but with a faster lap time because of the cornering.

So how can I get a Tam to ride like the Sag?

I'm thinking recreate the Sags track, change the pick-up points, cage it.... but what would really work?

Cheers!

[phazed]

I remember doing a TD with my sorted chim at Combe a few years ago.

There was a guy there with a sag with triple 8s on and I found there was a noticable difference in corner speeds even though my chim, on triple 8s as well was on the limit.

[Don1]

I'm on Yoko AD08s on the rear, Parada Spec 2's on the front - this is more about the suspension, and the ability to ride out the bumps and put the power down. The Sag I didn't even notice the bumps the Tam was going sideways on.

[APMAUTO]

Don1 said:

Two days back to back on track with the two cars, and what a difference. The Tamora is stupidly quick, but so agricultural through the corners. The Sag is slower, but with a faster lap time because of the cornering.

So how can I get a Tam to ride like the Sag?

I'm thinking recreate the Sags track, change the pick-up points, cage it.... but what would really work?

Cheers!

ohlins!

[SteveSPG]

guess the first question is what are the differences between the sag and the tam

tyres/track/shocks/suspension pick up points/geometry..and of course the sag has some additional stiffness due to the roll cage.

i know that shocks and geometry made a huge difference to my griff, very easy to conclude that perhaps the tam would benefit from some work there, but only you know your car and how it is set up

[Ant.]

So what are the differences between your sag and Tamora?

What dampers are fitted to both, spring rates?

Are the tyres comparable? not only brand and model but also sizes?

I (as you probably have) have seen the Sag pick up points and how they differ to the T350/Sag/Tuscan, can the slightly wider track and slightly lower stance make all the difference?

[Don1]

Andy, you're a bad man! (ARR had the car last week - what a difference!).

The cars are running roughly the same tyres, and the Sag is on 19", Tam on 18". The Tam is on Gaz Golds, the Sag is standard. I'm thinking this is to be a winter project...

[TA14]

SteveSPG said:

and of course the sag has some additional stiffness due to the roll cage.

it won't be a lot because of the rear wheel arch problem.

[BCA]

16" wheels

[m3jappa]

I would love to have my Tuscan pick up points and wishbones converted to safaris spec.

It's a steel tube chassis, I maybe ignorant but how hard is it? Really? My Tuscan handles really well now but could as with everything could be better.

Can't a few of us get together and get it done? I bet I'm not the only one.

[plasticman]

If you put sagaris wishbone mounts onto a T chassis ( very hard to do ) then the wheels will foul on the body due to the wider track and body height.

[BuzzBillsberry]

What were the lap times for each of the cars? I aways thought you couldnt use timing equipment on TD's unless you did an affiliated MSA Test day not a track day? If it was a track hoe did you manage laps with out getting baulked by other cars as you are not aloud to over take into corners... Not been funny just interested to know.

Buzz

[spitfire4v8]

TA14 said:

SteveSPG said:

and of course the sag has some additional stiffness due to the roll cage.

it won't be a lot because of the rear wheel arch problem.

what problem?

[Mattt]

spitfire4v8 said:

TA14 said:

SteveSPG said:

and of course the sag has some additional stiffness due to the roll cage.

it won't be a lot because of the rear wheel arch problem.

what problem?

The rear of the cage isn't properly mounted into the chassis, just the fibreglass IIRC.

[Don1]

BuzzBillsberry said:

What were the lap times for each of the cars? I aways thought you couldnt use timing equipment on TD's unless you did an affiliated MSA Test day not a track day? If it was a track hoe did you manage laps with out getting baulked by other cars as you are not aloud to over take into corners... Not been funny just interested to know.

Buzz

I would say that the Sag was around 1-2 seconds a lap quicker, down to the rear tyres (scrubbing the bodywork), and the inability to put the power down coming out of Gambon. This was for The Supercar Event, so timing was not happening, this is down to 'seat of pants' feeling, and the amount of cars I passed, rather than passing me.

Basically on the first day I was letting a lot of cars though, the second day barely any.

plasticman said:

If you put sagaris wishbone mounts onto a T chassis ( very hard to do ) then the wheels will foul on the body due to the wider track and body height.

So it's a job for you? That's a thought - a wide-arch Tamora...

[anonymous-user]

Don1 said:

Two days back to back on track with the two cars, and what a difference. The Tamora is stupidly quick, but so agricultural through the corners. The Sag is slower, but with a faster lap time because of the cornering.

So how can I get a Tam to ride like the Sag?

I'm thinking recreate the Sags track, change the pick-up points, cage it.... but what would really work?

Cheers!

Find a damaged Sag to restore - chop the roof off and replace with rollbar/hoops

[TA14]

Mattt said:

spitfire4v8 said:

TA14 said:

SteveSPG said:

and of course the sag has some additional stiffness due to the roll cage.

it won't be a lot because of the rear wheel arch problem.

what problem?

The rear of the cage isn't properly mounted into the chassis, just the fibreglass IIRC.

Yup

[TA14]

plasticman said:

If you put sagaris wishbone mounts onto a T chassis ( very hard to do )

Why do you say that? As I see it it's simply welding some brackets onto the chassis. Do you mean all of the work involved in being able to get to the chassis and setting out the geometry?

[TA14]

BCA said:

16" wheels

Yes, this exercise could get expensive: 16 or 17" wheels with good tyres, Nitrons (or better still Ohlins) check all bushes, rose jointed drop links, good geo set up, check all fixings, compare arbs and I think that your Tam would out handle your Sag. £5K? Add in the Sag wishbones and body work and you may have the best handling TVR but have you just doubled the price?

[plasticman]

I have looked at welding the sagaris suspension brackets onto another T chassis and to do it the way TVR welded them on would be very difficult as you would have to remove the old ones first. The large plates on the front Have been weldedalong the front and the back of the verticalish chassis bar and have the diagonal strengthener passing through the rear one . If you were going to make brackets to weld onto the original plates some of the new wishbone mounting points are on the folded edge of the plates so would have to be cut away . If I remember correctly on the rear the top mounts will foul on bodywork though they are easier to swap (with the body off ofcourse )
If you think about what they were trying to achieve and why they did it the way they did you might come to another solution .