Pub talk

[markcoznottz]

Wonder if anyone can throw any light on an arguement that's been going for a while. I have found a very old pub that's won awards and nip in fairly often. I have found a pint of fosters cold there is leagues ahead of what 'spoons sell for an extra 20p. I mean its loads better, smooth, clean, just the 'experience' as a whole. Whether its the temperature or the freshness or even the glass, these people obviously know what they are serving to a tee. I think 'spoons quality is variable nowadays, but not mind blowing.

The actual discussion was wether a bottled lager can ever taste as good as a draft? Are they exactly the same,.

[mnkiboy]

I am in no way an expert, but I tend to find that Bitter tastes so much better draft than in a bottle. I always find the bottled stuff to be lacking in flavour.
On the other hand, I often prefer bottled lager to draft, as so many pubs seem to serve flat and/or nasty tasting lager. This is why I tend to seek out places selling decent lager (ie not Fosters!) as they tend to look after their beer better.

[scarble]

I reckon its sykosimatik innit mate.
I do wish more places sold proper lager though, all this "real ale" stuff, it all tastes like honey ffs, if I wanted to drink honey I'd drink honey. I swear pubs these days, especially these "real ale" ones, you're lucky to get becks or amstel, nevermind good lager.
I was actually just thinking about this, imagine if there was some kind of database of pubs complete with a list of what they have. e.g. where can I go out with mates for a nice moretti? (inb4 that is cheap/bad lager/you know nothing about lager)

So is it Trip/Salutation/Bell?
My choice of drinking establishment used to be the bluebell because well doggies on the wall paper and deep house coming from the speakers, not sure what it's like since the new management though?

Edited by scarble on Saturday 22 June 22:18

[deadslow]

scarble said:

I reckon its sykosimatik innit mate.
I do wish more places sold proper lager though, all this "real ale" stuff, it all tastes like honey ffs, if I wanted to drink honey I'd drink honey. I swear pubs these days, especially these "real ale" ones, you're lucky to get becks or amstel, nevermind good lager.
I was actually just thinking about this, imagine if there was some kind of database of pubs complete with a list of what they have. e.g. where can I go out with mates for a nice moretti? (inb4 that is cheap/bad lager/you know nothing about lager)

So is it Trip/Salutation/Bell?
My choice of drinking establishment used to be the bluebell because well doggies on the wall paper and deep house coming from the speakers, not sure what it's like since the new management though?

Edited by scarble on Saturday 22 June 22:18

You're barred

[ADM06]

Does all Ale taste of honey? Is there such a thing as "good lager"?
God I was worried that smoking too much was destroying my taste buds.

[richwig83]

Fosters??? I this a wind up?

[hairyben]

scarble said:

I reckon its sykosimatik innit mate.
I do wish more places sold proper lager though, all this "real ale" stuff, it all tastes like honey ffs, if I wanted to drink honey I'd drink honey. I swear pubs these days, especially these "real ale" ones, you're lucky to get becks or amstel, nevermind good lager.
I was actually just thinking about this, imagine if there was some kind of database of pubs complete with a list of what they have. e.g. where can I go out with mates for a nice moretti? (inb4 that is cheap/bad lager/you know nothing about lager)

So is it Trip/Salutation/Bell?
My choice of drinking establishment used to be the bluebell because well doggies on the wall paper and deep house coming from the speakers, not sure what it's like since the new management though?

Edited by scarble on Saturday 22 June 22:18

Problem with all this real ale snobbery is they've forgotten that lager can vary hugely too, nothing worse than a pub making a scene about it's real ale then they only have cooking lager on offer, the worst is when they have a whole row of cooking lagers, eg carling/carlsberg/kronenberg/fosters and not evan a semi decent german offering, the sheer pointlessness of that choice amazes me.

[scarble]

exactly.
and "real ale" isn't even really that good (or maybe I just somehow haven't found the real real ale??)

[PedroB]

markcoznottz said:

The actual discussion was whether a bottled lager can ever taste as good as a draft? Are they exactly the same,.

A few things at play here, *dons techie hat*

Fundamentally the beer that goes into a keg and that goes into a bottle will have been treated exactly the same way at the brewery. With most commercial lagers and some of the bigger brewer's ales, the beer will have been filtered and then pasteurised. Smaller brewers may filter then package their beer but won't pasteurise and most microbreweries who don't keg their beer (they do cask and bottle conditioned beer) won't filter or pasteurise. (pasteurisation also knackers beer, but that is a whole different story....)

Firstly, bottled beer in this country, especially lager is packaged in green or clear glass, there is a chemical in hops that are used to flavour beer called isohumulone, beer also contains small amounts of sulphur that is generated by the yeast during fermentation. When isohumulone gets hit by UV light it breaks down and combines with the sulphur generating the same chemical that skunks spray. It can make the beer smell and taste rank. If you want to do an experiment, get two bottles of beer in clear or green glass, leave one in the sun for a week and leave one in a dark cupboard, drink them side by side, the difference is huge. Draft beer is supplied in a keg which light can't get to, eliminating this issue. Bottles get exposed to light in the supermarket aisle, in pub fridges etc, etc.

Secondly bottled beer can be much more easily exposed to oxygen. Oxygen is the enemy when it comes to keeping any food fresh, be it meat, veg, bread, or stuff like beer. Because of the way that bottles are filled, the dissolved oxygen content of the beer is higher than that of kegged beer. Beer can oxidise very quickly in bottles which can give it a dusty, papery or wet cardboard flavour and taste.

Finally carbonation levels in bottled beer are sometimes higher than the draft equivalent, excess carbonation can often mask flavour.

Hope that sheds some light on the situation!

[prand]

PedroB said:

A few things at play here, *dons techie hat*

Fundamentally the beer that goes into a keg and that goes into a bottle will have been treated exactly the same way at the brewery. With most commercial lagers and some of the bigger brewer's ales, the beer will have been filtered and then pasteurised. Smaller brewers may filter then package their beer but won't pasteurise and most microbreweries who don't keg their beer (they do cask and bottle conditioned beer) won't filter or pasteurise. (pasteurisation also knackers beer, but that is a whole different story....)

Firstly, bottled beer in this country, especially lager is packaged in green or clear glass, there is a chemical in hops that are used to flavour beer called isohumulone, beer also contains small amounts of sulphur that is generated by the yeast during fermentation. When isohumulone gets hit by UV light it breaks down and combines with the sulphur generating the same chemical that skunks spray. It can make the beer smell and taste rank. If you want to do an experiment, get two bottles of beer in clear or green glass, leave one in the sun for a week and leave one in a dark cupboard, drink them side by side, the difference is huge. Draft beer is supplied in a keg which light can't get to, eliminating this issue. Bottles get exposed to light in the supermarket aisle, in pub fridges etc, etc.

Secondly bottled beer can be much more easily exposed to oxygen. Oxygen is the enemy when it comes to keeping any food fresh, be it meat, veg, bread, or stuff like beer. Because of the way that bottles are filled, the dissolved oxygen content of the beer is higher than that of kegged beer. Beer can oxidise very quickly in bottles which can give it a dusty, papery or wet cardboard flavour and taste.

Finally carbonation levels in bottled beer are sometimes higher than the draft equivalent, excess carbonation can often mask flavour.

Hope that sheds some light on the situation!

Always wondered what the skunky flavour was. Thought it was just the beer, and have noticed this most with bottled Becks. I prefer real ale mostly, but I do like a nicely handled/poured pint of lager when the weather is warm though.