Got the car back, Hartech LTT fitted - Running Report
Discussion
Hi there
We got my car back today after having the LTT fitted by Hartech and boroscope inspection which they said is one of the cleanest engines they've seen, not even a single score mark.
Drove back from Bolton to Stoke, country roads, sunny weather, had a blast and even though I have 3rd radiator I could get temps close to 100c (oil) on the road before, before the 3rd radiator was fitted you could easily hit 110c from a spirited drive on the road.
Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
So it definitely lower the temperatures, I've had a good read of the Hartech guides and this seems ideal because these engines in stock design operate beyond what is normal and the LTT and 3rd radiator help to sort that out.
My questions are though, maybe Baz can answer:-
1. Fuel dilution thinning out the oil film on the bores and a lower temperature thermostat is only going to make chances of bore scoring worse. From what I've read the engine still gets hot enough to prevent this and Hartech literature seems to say it will still reduce chances of scoring. But maybe Baz can add input, put my mind at rest please?
2. As my temperature is typically always sub 90c now on the road, its constantly reading 5 bar oil pressure at all RPM's now, even after an hours drive, an issue?
Apart from that car drives superb, a real marked temperature improvement and shall be interesting to see what temperatures I see at Donnington this Friday.
If you do a lot of stop start, in traffic in a 996 or 997.1 the 3rd radiator and LTT is really a must to stop things getting too hot! Service from Hartech guys was excellent, did not see Baz in person so could not ask him these questions.
We got my car back today after having the LTT fitted by Hartech and boroscope inspection which they said is one of the cleanest engines they've seen, not even a single score mark.
Drove back from Bolton to Stoke, country roads, sunny weather, had a blast and even though I have 3rd radiator I could get temps close to 100c (oil) on the road before, before the 3rd radiator was fitted you could easily hit 110c from a spirited drive on the road.
Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
So it definitely lower the temperatures, I've had a good read of the Hartech guides and this seems ideal because these engines in stock design operate beyond what is normal and the LTT and 3rd radiator help to sort that out.
My questions are though, maybe Baz can answer:-
1. Fuel dilution thinning out the oil film on the bores and a lower temperature thermostat is only going to make chances of bore scoring worse. From what I've read the engine still gets hot enough to prevent this and Hartech literature seems to say it will still reduce chances of scoring. But maybe Baz can add input, put my mind at rest please?
2. As my temperature is typically always sub 90c now on the road, its constantly reading 5 bar oil pressure at all RPM's now, even after an hours drive, an issue?
Apart from that car drives superb, a real marked temperature improvement and shall be interesting to see what temperatures I see at Donnington this Friday.
If you do a lot of stop start, in traffic in a 996 or 997.1 the 3rd radiator and LTT is really a must to stop things getting too hot! Service from Hartech guys was excellent, did not see Baz in person so could not ask him these questions.
purds said:
BAT Evening session I guess?
See you there - I'm in a white 987
Yes the evening session, yellow 911. See you there - I'm in a white 987
Previously car would eventually get upto 110-115c after several laps, or about 15-20 minutes worth, at which point I always come in. As I only drive the car at like 8/10th's on track and don't try doing a marathon, treat it with respect, look after it and the track work then actually seems to do them good. Certainly does not cause bore scoring that is for sure, as my bores are spotless.
Gibbo205 said:
Hi there
We got my car back today after having the LTT fitted by Hartech and boroscope inspection which they said is one of the cleanest engines they've seen, not even a single score mark.
Drove back from Bolton to Stoke, country roads, sunny weather, had a blast and even though I have 3rd radiator I could get temps close to 100c (oil) on the road before, before the 3rd radiator was fitted you could easily hit 110c from a spirited drive on the road.
Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
So it definitely lower the temperatures, I've had a good read of the Hartech guides and this seems ideal because these engines in stock design operate beyond what is normal and the LTT and 3rd radiator help to sort that out.
My questions are though, maybe Baz can answer:-
1. Fuel dilution thinning out the oil film on the bores and a lower temperature thermostat is only going to make chances of bore scoring worse. From what I've read the engine still gets hot enough to prevent this and Hartech literature seems to say it will still reduce chances of scoring. But maybe Baz can add input, put my mind at rest please?
2. As my temperature is typically always sub 90c now on the road, its constantly reading 5 bar oil pressure at all RPM's now, even after an hours drive, an issue?
Apart from that car drives superb, a real marked temperature improvement and shall be interesting to see what temperatures I see at Donnington this Friday.
If you do a lot of stop start, in traffic in a 996 or 997.1 the 3rd radiator and LTT is really a must to stop things getting too hot! Service from Hartech guys was excellent, did not see Baz in person so could not ask him these questions.
Gibbo - exactly the same as what it did to my C2S - which also had the central radiator thanks to you help with the part numbers! Amazing isn't it - I just told everyone I knew with a 997 to get the LTT done as it makes such a difference! When you switch on the aircon in traffic, you can now watch the oil temp go down (so it might also be worth switching on as you start your "cooling down lap" on a track day too). We got my car back today after having the LTT fitted by Hartech and boroscope inspection which they said is one of the cleanest engines they've seen, not even a single score mark.
Drove back from Bolton to Stoke, country roads, sunny weather, had a blast and even though I have 3rd radiator I could get temps close to 100c (oil) on the road before, before the 3rd radiator was fitted you could easily hit 110c from a spirited drive on the road.
Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
So it definitely lower the temperatures, I've had a good read of the Hartech guides and this seems ideal because these engines in stock design operate beyond what is normal and the LTT and 3rd radiator help to sort that out.
My questions are though, maybe Baz can answer:-
1. Fuel dilution thinning out the oil film on the bores and a lower temperature thermostat is only going to make chances of bore scoring worse. From what I've read the engine still gets hot enough to prevent this and Hartech literature seems to say it will still reduce chances of scoring. But maybe Baz can add input, put my mind at rest please?
2. As my temperature is typically always sub 90c now on the road, its constantly reading 5 bar oil pressure at all RPM's now, even after an hours drive, an issue?
Apart from that car drives superb, a real marked temperature improvement and shall be interesting to see what temperatures I see at Donnington this Friday.
If you do a lot of stop start, in traffic in a 996 or 997.1 the 3rd radiator and LTT is really a must to stop things getting too hot! Service from Hartech guys was excellent, did not see Baz in person so could not ask him these questions.
Gibbo205 said:
Drove back from Bolton to Stoke, country roads, sunny weather, had a blast and even though I have 3rd radiator I could get temps close to 100c (oil) on the road before, before the 3rd radiator was fitted you could easily hit 110c from a spirited drive on the road.
Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
Presume you are reading those temperatures from the car's gauges ? If you plug a Porsche diagnostic in you will see that these gauges are pretty inaccurate and do not keep up with actual temperatures - just a FYI as I'm sure your third rad and LTT (WTF is that Yet today, I failed to get beyond 92c oil temperatures and what I noticed is it cools straight back down to sub 90c, approx 88c within seconds. Clearly coolant is flowing around the engine much better and it is obvious with 3rd radiator and LTT combined they seriously reduce the temperatures of these cars, by upto some 20c of the oil peak temperatures.
) make a difference.MadMark981 said:
Gibbo - exactly the same as what it did to my C2S - which also had the central radiator thanks to you help with the part numbers! Amazing isn't it - I just told everyone I knew with a 997 to get the LTT done as it makes such a difference! When you switch on the aircon in traffic, you can now watch the oil temp go down (so it might also be worth switching on as you start your "cooling down lap" on a track day too).
Never turn the AC off, always on m8. Might be why my bores are so clean, if it helps with engine cooling to run AC on.
TB993tt said:
Presume you are reading those temperatures from the car's gauges ? If you plug a Porsche diagnostic in you will see that these gauges are pretty inaccurate and do not keep up with actual temperatures - just a FYI as I'm sure your third rad and LTT (WTF is that ) make a difference.
Oil gauge is accurate, also confirmed with laptop, the oil gauge on my car is spot on. Water temp gauge however, never moves of 80c wheras in reality the water can be much higher.) make a difference.LTT is Hartech low temp thermostat.
Gibbo205 said:
Never turn the AC off, always on m8.
Might be why my bores are so clean, if it helps with engine cooling to run AC on.
Might be why my bores are so clean, if it helps with engine cooling to run AC on.
- Taps nose and points*
steve singh said:
Wonder if the oil not getting up to operating temp is the lesser of two evils scenario?
Steve - it seems to get up to temperature just as fast, it's just that the thermostat seems to open fully, more often, keeping from getting too hot. Edited by MadMark981 on Tuesday 25th June 22:09
MadMark981 said:
Steve - it seems to get up to temperature just as fast, it's just that the thermostat seems to open fully, more often, keeping from getting too hot.
Drive to work this morning peak oil temperature 88c. Normal drive to work would see around 95c oil temperature. Needless to say the combination certainly reduces temperatures for sure. It seems now 88c is the new nominal operating temperature for the oil, down from 92c it would normally warm upto. Peak temperatures are greatly reduced to what they previous were when giving the car a good workout.Edited by MadMark981 on Tuesday 25th June 22:09
Gibbo205 said:
monthefish said:
Gibbo, your earlier comment about the oil pressure being at 5 bar whatever revs. Is that right? After reading that I paid attention to my similar car yesterday evening. As the oil warms the pressure does fall, and when the temperature is showing about 90 the pressure is around 3 bar at idle, and doesn't get to 5 bar until around 2500 rpm. After an hour or more the idle is about 2.5 and reaches 5 at about 2700. That's with Mobil 1.
It would be unusual to get 5 bar at idle I would have thought.
Gibbo205 said:
monthefish said:
Aircon affects fuel economy (for the worse) and so it obviously is powered by the engine.
I can't imagine turning the A/C on in the cabin would serve to cool the engine. If anything, I would have thought it would contribute to warming the engine slightly as the engine would be working a bit harder with it on.
REALIST123 said:
It helps in as much as the a/c fan will be blowing quite a bit and usually the a/c rad is behind one of the water rads. On the other hand the a/c loads the engine a little bit. Proportionally to the time the rad is on I guess.
Gibbo, your earlier comment about the oil pressure being at 5 bar whatever revs. Is that right? After reading that I paid attention to my similar car yesterday evening. As the oil warms the pressure does fall, and when the temperature is showing about 90 the pressure is around 3 bar at idle, and doesn't get to 5 bar until around 2500 rpm. After an hour or more the idle is about 2.5 and reaches 5 at about 2700. That's with Mobil 1.
It would be unusual to get 5 bar at idle I would have thought.
It is but I do know my oil pressure gauge is a bit funky, needs a new sensor, but obviously as the engine runs coolers, now fully warm is 88c instead of 92c idle pressure seems to be around 3-4, instead of 2. Can only get it 2 if the car has been driven in a spirited manner for an hour or so as obviously then oil gets a bit hotter.Gibbo, your earlier comment about the oil pressure being at 5 bar whatever revs. Is that right? After reading that I paid attention to my similar car yesterday evening. As the oil warms the pressure does fall, and when the temperature is showing about 90 the pressure is around 3 bar at idle, and doesn't get to 5 bar until around 2500 rpm. After an hour or more the idle is about 2.5 and reaches 5 at about 2700. That's with Mobil 1.
It would be unusual to get 5 bar at idle I would have thought.
monthefish said:
Sorry. Wasn't meaning to be rude.
Aircon affects fuel economy (for the worse) and so it obviously is powered by the engine.
I can't imagine turning the A/C on in the cabin would serve to cool the engine. If anything, I would have thought it would contribute to warming the engine slightly as the engine would be working a bit harder with it on.
See above reply from Realist, seems it might help. I've always left it on, shall drive the car in ECO mode, see if it makes any difference to temperatures. Aircon affects fuel economy (for the worse) and so it obviously is powered by the engine.
I can't imagine turning the A/C on in the cabin would serve to cool the engine. If anything, I would have thought it would contribute to warming the engine slightly as the engine would be working a bit harder with it on.
Won't help my MPG much as I average 18mpg anyway.
Gibbo205 said:
Oil gauge is accurate, also confirmed with laptop, the oil gauge on my car is spot on. Water temp gauge however, never moves of 80c wheras in reality the water can be much higher.
LTT is Hartech low temp thermostat.
Ive got the Hartech LTT, fitted 18 months ago when a new water pump went in to my 997 C2, I can confirm that the water temp guage is a bit rubbish. I didn't notice very much difference to what it read before and after fitting the LTT. I haven't plugged into the diagnostics to find out what the true temp might be though, because I didn't take any readings with the old thermostat, which I wasn't expecting to replace until the water pump failed, then thought I might as well go for the LTT, as my indy replaced the water pump under warranty, and didn't charge me for fitting the LTT.LTT is Hartech low temp thermostat.
is cool oil a good thing ?
110 is not hot imo
most cars tend to run hotter oil to stop build up of crap etc.
my old Audi TTRS ran 100 standard.
I know we all like to mod our cars etc, but messing with day to day oil running temps sounds risky to me, as I guess Porsche spent a lot of time and money getting the oil temp right.
110 is not hot imo
most cars tend to run hotter oil to stop build up of crap etc.
my old Audi TTRS ran 100 standard.
I know we all like to mod our cars etc, but messing with day to day oil running temps sounds risky to me, as I guess Porsche spent a lot of time and money getting the oil temp right.
monthefish said:
^^I agree with the gist of what you say, however, for obvious reasons, when it comes to early Porsche 997 engines, I'd be more inclined to go with what Hartech recommend, rather than how the engine was when it left the Porsche factory.
but 88c sounds low to me for oil temps.If I were seeing 125 + then I would start to take a look at oil temps.
the last few winters here have been long and bloody cold, and the summer short and low 20oc.
Edited by mrdemon on Wednesday 26th June 13:04
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