Cheap, RWD, 2 driver race series
Discussion
A friend and I are planning to do our race licenses.
We will be looking at buying a car to suit the race series we choose.
Team trophy seems like it ticks the boxes. The mx5 seems to have a few one make series offered.
Which race series matches our criteria best?:
Relatively cheap
Rear wheel drive
Evenly matched cars (not a ££££ competition)
2 driver races with pit stop
ability to keep car road worthy (would be nice to take the car to a nurburgring/ spa trackday)
We are both mechanically minded but want to race on a level playing field with minimal tweeking, mods and spending.
Thanks for any info.
We will be looking at buying a car to suit the race series we choose.
Team trophy seems like it ticks the boxes. The mx5 seems to have a few one make series offered.
Which race series matches our criteria best?:
Relatively cheap
Rear wheel drive
Evenly matched cars (not a ££££ competition)
2 driver races with pit stop
ability to keep car road worthy (would be nice to take the car to a nurburgring/ spa trackday)
We are both mechanically minded but want to race on a level playing field with minimal tweeking, mods and spending.
Thanks for any info.
Hiya
Track Day Trophy to start you off and then move into team trophy later. TDT is 45 min races TT is 60 minute but a bit more of a competitive field. I raced last year in TDT in my Clio 182 and LOVED it. This year I am late due to car build but I will be out in TT at BH end of this month.
TDT has classes B,C,D,E at 175 bhp per ton at wheels with driver
TT has classes A,B,C,D at 200 bhp per ton at wheels with driver
You can find all info here
http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
http://www.team-trophy.co.uk/
What cars are you looking at?
Track Day Trophy to start you off and then move into team trophy later. TDT is 45 min races TT is 60 minute but a bit more of a competitive field. I raced last year in TDT in my Clio 182 and LOVED it. This year I am late due to car build but I will be out in TT at BH end of this month.
TDT has classes B,C,D,E at 175 bhp per ton at wheels with driver
TT has classes A,B,C,D at 200 bhp per ton at wheels with driver
You can find all info here
http://www.trackdaytrophy.co.uk/
http://www.team-trophy.co.uk/
What cars are you looking at?
Looks like the 750mc Roadsports might be eligible for you, there are other series like the CSCC's ModernClassics (surprised Andy97's not been along) but im not sure if a road going car is able to take part, but it contains mixed class, driver swaps and the cscc + 750mc are both quite cheap.
Bozla posted in the Roadsports thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and has blogged about his roadgoing mk1 mr2 that he races in http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-home-of-welsh...
If however you want something to throw a budget at the funcup give you a stupidly insane level of tracktime, cant drive the things home tho
Oh and the 360mrc as a one off 6hr race is a good event, covered by Radiolemans too! http://360mrc.com/
Bozla posted in the Roadsports thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... and has blogged about his roadgoing mk1 mr2 that he races in http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-home-of-welsh...
If however you want something to throw a budget at the funcup give you a stupidly insane level of tracktime, cant drive the things home tho
Oh and the 360mrc as a one off 6hr race is a good event, covered by Radiolemans too! http://360mrc.com/
teabagger said:
A friend and I are planning to do our race licenses.
We will be looking at buying a car to suit the race series we choose.
Team trophy seems like it ticks the boxes. The mx5 seems to have a few one make series offered.
Which race series matches our criteria best?:
Relatively cheap
Rear wheel drive
Evenly matched cars (not a ££££ competition)
2 driver races with pit stop
ability to keep car road worthy (would be nice to take the car to a nurburgring/ spa trackday)
We are both mechanically minded but want to race on a level playing field with minimal tweeking, mods and spending.
Thanks for any info.
The only way to keep in on Evenly Matched cars is to stick to one make series really but that poses the issue there aren't many that offer a driver change. The same goes for minimal tweeking and spending etc. We will be looking at buying a car to suit the race series we choose.
Team trophy seems like it ticks the boxes. The mx5 seems to have a few one make series offered.
Which race series matches our criteria best?:
Relatively cheap
Rear wheel drive
Evenly matched cars (not a ££££ competition)
2 driver races with pit stop
ability to keep car road worthy (would be nice to take the car to a nurburgring/ spa trackday)
We are both mechanically minded but want to race on a level playing field with minimal tweeking, mods and spending.
Thanks for any info.
Class racing is ok but you need to choose a car wisely, very wisely! Class racing can get expensive very quickly to be competitive!
Keeping a tin-top road and race worthy is easy enough but i know a few people who have driven race cars to circuits and all of them will tell you it is pure torture and you then have to spend extra time going from Road spec to race spec when you arrive and then race spec to road spec to drive home!
I have an E30 320i running in Production BMW which usually has a grid of 30-40 cars all similar spec with very close racing.
A friend also runs the car in class F of the Project 8 racing saloons which is just for the PBMW's. Usually 5 or 6 in class.
Both series are on the same weekend, only time it gets a little hectic is when there's 2 qualifying sessions and 4 races all on the same day.
A friend also runs the car in class F of the Project 8 racing saloons which is just for the PBMW's. Usually 5 or 6 in class.
Both series are on the same weekend, only time it gets a little hectic is when there's 2 qualifying sessions and 4 races all on the same day.
andye30m3 said:
I have an E30 320i running in Production BMW which usually has a grid of 30-40 cars all similar spec with very close racing.
A friend also runs the car in class F of the Project 8 racing saloons which is just for the PBMW's. Usually 5 or 6 in class.
Both series are on the same weekend, only time it gets a little hectic is when there's 2 qualifying sessions and 4 races all on the same day.
Another vote for Production BMW.A friend also runs the car in class F of the Project 8 racing saloons which is just for the PBMW's. Usually 5 or 6 in class.
Both series are on the same weekend, only time it gets a little hectic is when there's 2 qualifying sessions and 4 races all on the same day.
E30 is a lot of fun to drive too.
RogueMotorsport said:
If you raced an MR2 Championship car in Roadsports you would have the option to do the Roadsports race on the Saturday and the MR2 Championship races on the Sunday at the same meeting. Quite a few guys do this already.
I see you are involved with the mr2 series.Can you give a estimate of how much it would cost for a road going mk2 mr2 to be converted for championship use?
teabagger said:
Can you give a estimate of how much it would cost for a road going mk2 mr2 to be converted for championship use?
Off season you'd find a lot of MR2's up for sale (likewise most things and certainly less hassle than prepping one), it's testament to them and the work Patrick has done over the years that there are a lot of mk2's racing in other series now, for running a road/race MR2 I know straight off that you'd have to chop the airvents in the dash out to get the Rogue sourced cage in (it's a good cage, i saw it work at Brands a few seasons ago!)MR2s, Mx5's, e30's, Porsche 924's all good for what you are trying to do and you can race in multiple series (and then the 360 as a special
)ribiero said:
Looks like the 750mc Roadsports might be eligible for you, there are other series like the CSCC's ModernClassics (surprised Andy97's not been along) but im not sure if a road going car is able to take part, but it contains mixed class, driver swaps and the cscc + 750mc are both quite cheap.
Oh and the 360mrc as a one off 6hr race is a good event, covered by Radiolemans too! http://360mrc.com/
Lol. Well, I thought given the recent moans about my championing of CSCC I'd give others a bit of a head start!!!Oh and the 360mrc as a one off 6hr race is a good event, covered by Radiolemans too! http://360mrc.com/
My twopennyworth - I can't think of a single 2 driver series that is solely RWD but there are 3 multi-class clubs offering regular 40-45 min (ish) race series for 2 drivers in which RWD cars are all eligible and competitive in their class. 750 mc with Roadsports, MSVR with Trackday & Track team and CSCC with Swinging Sixties, Tin Tops, Future Classics and Modern Classics (road registered cars are certainly eligible in all of the CSCC series, if you want).
There are similarities in each series and differences but if you buy wisely you could probably enter races from all 3 series, but depending on the different class structures you could be racing different cars at different meetings!
Road registered is always a challenge because of the prospect of damage but I do understand the appeal. Most people soon find, though, that race prepared cars on the road are actually a bit of a pain.
If It was me I'd buy something like a race prepared Porsche 944 2.5 which can be had for about £5k and you probably enter all of the above clubs series except Swinging Sixties and Tin Tops and you could even enter it in a few tarmac rallies as well. The 360 MRC 6 hour race is also a good event & great VfM.
Other cars to consider are MX5 Mk1 and Mk3 (and they have a choice of 3 one make series to enter, too), MR2, BMW 3 Series (both also have one make series), Mazda RX8 (their own class in Roadsports, I think), Honda S2000 etc etc.
Think about buying a car that is already race prepared (always cheaper than preparing yourself, although rarely road legal) and buying something for which there are a fair amount of spare parts available and knowledge/ experience.
There you go, enjoy.
I'm biased as I think the CSCC offers the best package but I'd be tempted to join all 3 clubs above, and just race regionally in all 3 series to save on travel/ overnight costs until you decide what to do for the best.
(PS. Hope my detractors think that this is a balance post Lol!)
Excellent advice from Andy! Just about sums it up.
I would say that if you are running in multi-class racing (which you'll have to if you want to do two driver races) then a 944 (as Andy suggested) or an E36 M3 will give you the best chance to be competitive at the sharp end. Really depends on your budget though.
Dan
I would say that if you are running in multi-class racing (which you'll have to if you want to do two driver races) then a 944 (as Andy suggested) or an E36 M3 will give you the best chance to be competitive at the sharp end. Really depends on your budget though.
Dan
Thanks again
An e36/46 m3 would seem to be a good choice-
as mentioned above, a car of this type with a MSA compliant cage etc could potentially be entered into:
trackday trophy
750mc roadsport- although the m3 is not listed in the compliant car list on their site, I will have to confirm
360mc 6 hour- invitation class, so again I would have to confirm first.
Looking at the cscc web site, a e36 m3 may be eligible in modern classics but an e46 maybe not.
An m3 would also be able to be kept on the road or drive, used for uk trackdays and nurburgring/ spa trips.
Any thoughts on the above idea welcomed.
An e36/46 m3 would seem to be a good choice-
as mentioned above, a car of this type with a MSA compliant cage etc could potentially be entered into:
trackday trophy
750mc roadsport- although the m3 is not listed in the compliant car list on their site, I will have to confirm
360mc 6 hour- invitation class, so again I would have to confirm first.
Looking at the cscc web site, a e36 m3 may be eligible in modern classics but an e46 maybe not.
An m3 would also be able to be kept on the road or drive, used for uk trackdays and nurburgring/ spa trips.
Any thoughts on the above idea welcomed.
Edited by teabagger on Wednesday 3rd July 20:41
I guess it depends on your budget? Personally, I would rather have a well prepared e30 in the best condition possible over a mediocre M3 where the repair bills are way higher. If you want something that looks a little newer, an e36 328 or Compact 2.5 will still have around 200bhp and be cheaper to maintain. It'll be just as much fun to drive too.
I'm just building an E21 Group 2 replica myself.
I'm just building an E21 Group 2 replica myself.
teabagger said:
Looking at the cscc web site, a e36 m3 may be eligible in modern classics but an e46 maybe not.
An E46 is eligible for Modern Classics (as is the E36) because it has "Grandfather rights" from the old "Deutsche Marque" series, which Modern Classics effectively incorporated.
Good info. cheersE36 M3 with the 3.0 engine is eligible for the most events I found.
If you're driving in races with a real mix of cars you'll get frustrated in a lower powered car as you'll have to keep looking in your mirrors watching for the faster cars looking to pass you.
They are cracking value now and great fun to drive.
If you're driving in races with a real mix of cars you'll get frustrated in a lower powered car as you'll have to keep looking in your mirrors watching for the faster cars looking to pass you.
They are cracking value now and great fun to drive.
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