HELP! Flapper system 350i won't start.

[voltage_maxx]

Been in the garage tonight trying to get the old girl to start up for the first time since having the manifold removed.

Engine will not start.

Ignition timing has been checked by a timing light and is set at TDC.
There is a spark at the spark plugs.
When flap in AFM is pushed, relay clicks and fuel pump runs.

All fuel lines have been changed along with a new filter - there seemed to be a lot of air in the system, as when priming was attempted via the AFM, it took a long time for the pump to settle down.

Pulled the cold-start injector to see if any fuel is squirted on start up - non seen.

Have checked injector connections - all plugs are on the correct injectors.

We've had to call it a night, as we were all shattered.
I'd be very grateful for any pointers, as it's a real blow not being able to get the engine to fire up.

It's totally dead, not even catching or giving any signs of firing.
I'm suspecting the injectors aren't firing, but don't know where to go from here.

Bob.

[Convert]

Could it be the wire near the AFM (the little bullet connector one that runs past the dizzy)?

[Jack Valiant]

if you had the injector resistor pack off then check not just the socket but the wires going into the plugs as they become brittle with the engine heat espcially if they have not been moved for a while.

If there is no fuel in the fuel rail then its a pump or filter issue I would have thought disconnect the fuel line from the regulator and check for flow.

Good luck

Chris

[Wedg1e]

Fuel lines on the right way round? I've seen the high-pressure feed connected to the wrong end of the fuel rail before... and the bullet connector in the white/black wire from the ignition amplifier is another favourite

[Danny Hoffman]

Can you hear the injectors click when you stab the throttle?

Have you disturbed the EFi loom earth (n/s bell housing bolt on mine but could be on the manifold bolt I guess)

Is the ecu multiplug firmly attached?

[dixiebabes]

Couldn't get mine started last night. Had a fiddle with the wiring round the dizzy and bob's yer uncle she fired. Happened before but I don't wanna fix it cause its only half broke lol.

Dix

[digga951]

If you have an old tyre foot pump, you could take the pressure gauge off it and connect it to the cold start fuel hose. Crank the engine over and see what fuel pressure you have. I think it should be 26psi from memory... Failing that you can buy a gauge on ebay for a few quid and just keep it mounted on a section of fuel hose for when you want to test the fuel pump.

If all else fails, this document is a good starting point.

http://www.tvrwedgepages.co.uk/maint_fuel_injectio...

Pages 26 onwards gives you a full list of tests to do with a multimeter which should show up if any part of the electronics isn't working. Normally takes about 45 minutes to do the whole lot so could be quicker than trial and error searching...

[voltage_maxx]

I'll investigate properly tonight, however, I'm convinced the injectors aren't firing.

Wondering if I've disturbed a pickup connection somewhere.

[wild rover]

Fuel pressure should run in the range of 38 psi.

[adam quantrill]

voltage_maxx said:

I'll investigate properly tonight, however, I'm convinced the injectors aren't firing.

Ignition on - then rotate the throttle quickly by hand. You should hear all the injectors click.

If the engine temperature sensor it knackered it could be far too rich and not fire that way - pull a plug and see if it's wet.

[voltage_maxx]

adam quantrill said:

voltage_maxx said:

I'll investigate properly tonight, however, I'm convinced the injectors aren't firing.

Ignition on - then rotate the throttle quickly by hand. You should hear all the injectors click.

If the engine temperature sensor it knackered it could be far too rich and not fire that way - pull a plug and see if it's wet.

Hi Adam - that's definitely not happening. We've tried pumping the throttle and even then can't hear the injectors clicking.

[Wedg1e]

ECU plugged-in properly? Is power getting to the injection system (easiest way to test could be to poke your meter into the orange/brown wires into the injector resistor pack with the ignition on: if there's no 12v there then the system won't do much...).

[voltage_maxx]

Wedg1e said:

ECU plugged-in properly? Is power getting to the injection system (easiest way to test could be to poke your meter into the orange/brown wires into the injector resistor pack with the ignition on: if there's no 12v there then the system won't do much...).

Fuel pump runs when I open the AFM flap.
Have re-seated the ECU a couple of times, but that's a really good point about checking if there's anything at the resistor pack.

I just can't hear the injectors firing at all.

I have the Range Rover factory workshop manual, so have all the data - it doesn't half take some sifting through though!
Off the top of your head, is there a fused supply for the injectors?

[adam quantrill]

I don't think so - the whole ECU might be on a fuse possibly.

It would be unusual for both banks to fail simultaneously so yes either resistor pack isn't plugged in or the ECU might not have power.

Try probing for battery voltage on the ECU multiplug. Your manual should give the connector pin designations.

[voltage_maxx]

adam quantrill said:

I don't think so - the whole ECU might be on a fuse possibly.

It would be unusual for both banks to fail simultaneously so yes either resistor pack isn't plugged in or the ECU might not have power.

Try probing for battery voltage on the ECU multiplug. Your manual should give the connector pin designations.

Thanks Adam.

Yes, I think I need to do a lot of slow methodical checks tomorrow, starting off with ECU power, then trigger voltage etc etc.

That the fuel pump runs on demand with the AFM being triggered gives me hope there's power at the ECU and that it's OK.

The engine has run in the past with all of these components, so I'm hopeful that all is in working order - just perhaps incorrectly reconnected in some way.

I shall report back my findings!

[adam quantrill]

If you have no clicking on rotation of the throttle the trigger (coil pulses) are immaterial, it's a more fundamental problem, good luck! Sounds like you're homing in....

[V8 Fettler]

AS I recall, for diagnostics it's possible to shunt the throttle position sensor to signal to the ECU that fuel was required, can also stick a big bit of wood gently into the AFM so the pump is permanently running. All at your risk though! Permanently running fuel pump + small fire in the engine bay = run away.

I had problems with poor starting and poor running due to poor connections to the loom to the power resistor box on the inner wing, PO had made a tidy job of the wiring but it was too tight, removed the insulting tape so that the wires hung as they wished and problem resolved (looks a bit scruffy though).

Do you absolutely, definitely have a spark? Timing only needs to be thereabouts to get the thing running. Ignition amp is a consumable item, also worth checking the wiring associated with the amp, can get crispy. I have thought of buying one of those LED HT leads for trouble shooting, would be useful for chasing spark/no spark faults.

Easystart into the plenum is an option to prove fuelling issues, but that comes with it's own risks of expensive blowbacks.

[Danny Hoffman]

The throttle position sensor is needed to make the injectors click when you prod the throttle, but if it's disconnected/failed the car will still run. As it's unlikely you have 2 faults I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

The following pdf has the ecu pinouts

http://www.team.net/TR8/tr8cca/wedgelab/injection/...

I'd confirm you're getting power and earth feeds to the ecu first.

The following thread about when my ecu failed may have some useful pointers if it turns out to be anything more complicated than a missing earth

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[V8 Fettler]

Danny Hoffman said:

The throttle position sensor is needed to make the injectors click when you prod the throttle, but if it's disconnected/failed the car will still run. As it's unlikely you have 2 faults I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

The following pdf has the ecu pinouts

http://www.team.net/TR8/tr8cca/wedgelab/injection/...

I'd confirm you're getting power and earth feeds to the ecu first.

The following thread about when my ecu failed may have some useful pointers if it turns out to be anything more complicated than a missing earth

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Unlikely to have 2 faults? Do you work on elderly cars much? By shunting the TPS you can easily open the injectors (assuming all else is OK). The shunt is not intended to prove the function of the TPS in this instance.

[Convert]

Have you got the Coolant temp sensor connected OK?