Toyos in the wet ?

[h19 jjm]

Picked up the Cerb yesterday, totally over the moon with it.
But last night on the way home from the local meet in the wet had a couple of very scary moments. The griff i had before went around the same bends without any fuss, so i was wondering is anyone else running other tyres on 18" spiders on their Cerb. By the way tyres are about 3/4 worn on the rear.
Or shall i just order 2 new Toyos??

[DuncanM]

I must admit I'm a bit dissapointed with the wet weather characteristics on my Cerb which is running SO3's.

I had SO2's before and they are without doubt the finest road tyre I've experienced.

the handling could be down to more than tyres though. If you're running adjustable suspension it might be worth playing about to improve the setup.

You will find mixed reviews on any of the main tyre choices, if you're not that impressed with the Toyo's then there's no harm in trying something else like the SO3's/Goodyear F1's/Conti sportcontact2's etc .

Good luck.

Duncan

[big g]

I have just switched all four, from SO2's to Michelin Pilot Sport Extra Loads - I took the advice of a friend who owns a tyre company, he advised against Toyo and after calling Michelin on my behalf he recommended the 'extra loads'. I have had them on for 300 miles now and I am really pleased - the are very grippy wet or dry and run very quiet.
Graham

[shnozz]

not on a cerb, but on my chim I went from SO's to Toyos and am not very impressed in the dry. A lot of people seem content but I rate the SOs better. Certainly the initial 500 miles with Toyos need to be done at a crawl, else the back end will break away

One bloke on the chim forum had owned his car 5 years, knew how to handle it, dry day and a straight overtake and lost the back end. The only thing he had changed to the car was a recent pair of Toyos. Draw your own conclusions....



>> Edited by shnozz on Wednesday 13th October 16:27

[jasonben]

I changed all four to Toyo's about 6k ago, great in the dry, lots of grip but find them very dodgy in the wet.

Just last night could not accelerate hard in third or in fourth without some twitches to the steering wheel, and at the speed i was travelling at the heart cerainly did some skipping!!!

Will be changing them all again soon, probably to SO3's!!

[davidd]

I went from so2s to toyos and thought the toyos were much better. If the car does not seem to handle that well it is because they don't! NITRONS!

D

[dannylt]

There are two version of the SO2 - the "SO2" and the "SO2 PP", or Pole Positions. The latter have much better wet grip, and change characteristics more as they wear. SO2's were a bit scary when worn in the wet.

I liked the SO3's.

As for losing the car and blaming it on the tyre grip... I'd be more inclined blame the driver.

[shnozz]

dannylt said:

As for losing the car and blaming it on the tyre grip... I'd be more inclined blame the driver.

you have tried those tyres then?

Speaking from my own experience with Toyos I can understand how it could catch him unaware. He isnt an inexperienced driver, he had owned the car 5 years, driven the particular road daily on his way to work, and was overtaking in a straight line and could not provide any explanation as to why the rear suddenly broke away.

I can. When I fitted Toyos to the back of my car it was like driving on ice. And they didnt bed in until I had done over 500 miles in them. Unbelievably scarey over that period.

>> Edited by shnozz on Wednesday 13th October 10:23

[DuncanM]

In my experience the Cerbera is not the most confidence inspiring in the wet.

Having said this I put part of that down to just how capable the car is in the dry making my expectations higher.

Low wide stiff cars will always feel a bit hairy in the wet, I could compromise more with the shock settings (go softer) but I don't want to .

Incidently I have had a fair few drives of an Evo VIII FQ300 and the Cerb handles better in the dry imo with more grip and better feed back.

I haven't had the chance to pilot the Evo in the wet but I know my friend doesn't exactly throw it about...

Duncan

[njw 77]

My Cerb came with Toyos all round, previous Griff had SO3s. Try not to drive the cerb in the wet (thats what the Audi Quattro is for!) but taking the (then) new cerb on his 1st outing, to the Surrey meet in July, experienced the lovely British weather and to be honest standing water etc absolutely terrified me, had to drop to about 40mph on the A24 to keep the car on the road. I'm not able to compare other tyres so cant comment, but I wont be running for the cerb keys (ok, key fob) next time I see it pi$$ing down outside.

[ceejay]

Didn't like my 1st Cerb on Toyos in the wet. After the 500 mile run in period they were good in the dry and Okish in the wet but as they wore down wet weather grip went away considerably. I'd always change the rears when you're about 1.5 - 2mm from the tread bars. A lesson I learnt the hard way!

Now run Goodyear GSD-3's on the rear after experiencing them on a mates Griff. Seem to work well in all conditions and definitely better than the Toyos IMHO.

Ceejay

[Tyre Smoke]

Thank God for this thread. i thought it was only me that didn't like Toyos.

My Cerb came with So2's on the rear and brand new Toyo's on the front, and they're awful. I absolutely hate them except in the bone dry and warmed through.

Luckily for me a wheel and tyre change is imminent and I know it won't be Toyo's that go on (or Bridgey's for that matter)

[HarryW]

ceejay said:

.... Now run Goodyear GSD-3's on the rear after experiencing them on a mates Griff. Seem to work well in all conditions and definitely better .... Ceejay

Out of interest what is the differnece between F1-DS2 and F1-DS3 Goodyears as the ZR/205/15/55 only comes in DS2 guise .
I've heard a lot of good noise about the DS3's but not the DS2 .

Harry

[h19 jjm]

So would it be ok with Goodyear F1s on the back and Toyos on the front? (until the fronts wear out)
I had them on the Griff in the GSD2 guise, i was really impressed.

[dannylt]

shnozz said:

dannylt said: As for losing the car and blaming it on the tyre grip... I'd be more inclined blame the driver. you have tried those tyres then? Speaking from my own experience with Toyos I can understand how it could catch him unaware. He isnt an inexperienced driver, he had owned the car 5 years, driven the particular road daily on his way to work, and was overtaking in a straight line and could not provide any explanation as to why the rear suddenly broke away. I can. When I fitted Toyos to the back of my car it was like driving on ice. And they didnt bed in until I had done over 500 miles in them. Unbelievably scarey over that period. >> Edited by shnozz on Wednesday 13th October 10:23

Right. Scary over that period. So you're saying they were nice and grippy, then like ice? Or if they felt like driving on ice why would he have tried that manouvre? You didn't crash after all. Grip levels don't suddenly change, you get used to them from when you change tyres, or the weather changes, or the road, or you haven't driven for a while. A car doesn't snap sideways for no reason, and I still don't think you can blame the tyres.

I don't think track day operators would be happy if everyone span off because it started raining, or the driver had changed tyres for shit ones - they'd blame the driver.

Maybe there was diesel, or gravel, or horse shit, or overbanding/camber change/manhole cover he'd never noticed before. Maybe he wasn't paying attention or was over confident and put his foot down/lifted off while pulling out. Maybe he'd always been lucky before! Mechanical failure you can blame, but tyres don't just suddenly lose grip as you're pootling along.

[dannylt]

h19 jjm said:

So would it be ok with Goodyear F1s on the back and Toyos on the front? (until the fronts wear out) I had them on the Griff in the GSD2 guise, i was really impressed.

I wouldn't mix tyres front and back! If their grip characteristics change at different rates with temp & wetness (and they will, certainly as they wear), then the cars balance is continuously changing, i.e. you don't know whether it's going to oversteer/understeer or lock up at different ends.

[shnozz]

dannylt said:

shnozz said: dannylt said: As for losing the car and blaming it on the tyre grip... I'd be more inclined blame the driver. you have tried those tyres then? Speaking from my own experience with Toyos I can understand how it could catch him unaware. He isnt an inexperienced driver, he had owned the car 5 years, driven the particular road daily on his way to work, and was overtaking in a straight line and could not provide any explanation as to why the rear suddenly broke away. I can. When I fitted Toyos to the back of my car it was like driving on ice. And they didnt bed in until I had done over 500 miles in them. Unbelievably scarey over that period. >> Edited by shnozz on Wednesday 13th October 10:23 Right. Scary over that period. So you're saying they were nice and grippy, then like ice? Or if they felt like driving on ice why would he have tried that manouvre? You didn't crash after all. Grip levels don't suddenly change, you get used to them from when you change tyres, or the weather changes, or the road, or you haven't driven for a while. A car doesn't snap sideways for no reason, and I still don't think you can blame the tyres. I don't think track day operators would be happy if everyone span off because it started raining, or the driver had changed tyres for shit ones - they'd blame the driver. Maybe there was diesel, or gravel, or horse shit, or overbanding/camber change/manhole cover he'd never noticed before. Maybe he wasn't paying attention or was over confident and put his foot down/lifted off while pulling out. Maybe he'd always been lucky before! Mechanical failure you can blame, but tyres don't just suddenly lose grip as you're pootling along.

all fair points. It wasnt me, so I am not inclined to get in argument over the issue. Yes, I drove very carefully when I changed to the Toyos. They scared me with how little grip they had and gave me no enjoyment of the car for a good 500 miles as I was driving Miss Daisy and sweating most of the journey. This guy perhaps expected a similar grip level of a new SO tyre, and it didnt deliver. To avoid a crash, he should have eased off as I did. True. But as a comparable to another tyre I believe that was the difference that lead to losing control.

My car was all over the place when the Toyos were first put on. Yes, i was pootling along, and it was still twitchy and nervous. several times at less than 50mph I was easing right off because of the handling.

Anyway, as i say, it wasnt me that crashed so I dont have any desire to enter into a disagreement with you. And I partially agree that the driver has to be held accountable for part of the accident. However, as a comparison against the Bridgestones, I dont think Toyos cut the mustard

[dannylt]

Cool. So now that I've changed the slicks on my Radical to shittest-possible spec road Yokos (for winter gooning), I can blame any future crash on the tyres? Excellent

[shnozz]

dannylt said:

Cool. So now that I've changed the slicks on my Radical to shittest-possible spec road Yokos (for winter gooning), I can blame any future crash on the tyres? Excellent

no - because you are aware of the fact the Yokos are the shittest possible spec road tyres. If you were told they were the dogs danglies and comparable to the slicks, then you may have a point.

I see its a lost cause. Can we agree to disagree or shall we up the ante on the patronising comments exchange?

[davidd]

I did not think my toyos were that bad when they were new, are you sure your pressures were alright?

D