Audi quattro buyer's guide
Discussion
Well, I bought this week's Autocar as it has a buyer's guide. I've wanted one of these for years, but it was plain depressing. So few parts available "bottom ball joints NLA, MOT failure" bushes etc. It means of course that if you had one, it would be a cosseted garage Queen and you'd be petrified of taking it out.
Or is that just me?
Or is that just me?
Have a look on the quattro forum as well - I haven't seen that specific article, but I think there would be more comprehensive information on line.
I must admit it puts me off buying one. I've always wanted a quattro, ran a coupe quattro for years (still in the garage, next in line for restoration) and they do surface for reasonable money if you don't mind doing some work. But in the Firenza I've already got a car that it's hard to find parts for, so would be concerned about buying another one. That said, a mate of mine with a WR quattro has recently bought an MB as a project, I raised this thing about parts and he said he wasn't worried.
I think the lower ball joint thing (if I recall correctly) is specific to the RR quattro. Given the value of these cars, I would imagine someone will come up with an alternative, perhaps in the form of a modified lower arm, if it gets to a point where significant numbers of cars are off the road - it only takes one motivated and sufficiently funded enthusiast to sort out.
ETA: Reading back, I think I contradict my second paragraph in my third.
I must admit it puts me off buying one. I've always wanted a quattro, ran a coupe quattro for years (still in the garage, next in line for restoration) and they do surface for reasonable money if you don't mind doing some work. But in the Firenza I've already got a car that it's hard to find parts for, so would be concerned about buying another one. That said, a mate of mine with a WR quattro has recently bought an MB as a project, I raised this thing about parts and he said he wasn't worried.
I think the lower ball joint thing (if I recall correctly) is specific to the RR quattro. Given the value of these cars, I would imagine someone will come up with an alternative, perhaps in the form of a modified lower arm, if it gets to a point where significant numbers of cars are off the road - it only takes one motivated and sufficiently funded enthusiast to sort out.
ETA: Reading back, I think I contradict my second paragraph in my third.
This is utter nonsense. All the bushes, ball joints, steering joints and shocks are available for Quattros from many sources.
I carried out a large service on one just 2 weeks ago; no problem getting parts.
There is a problem with body parts such as wings and some panels, but you can usually source them from Germany on E bay.
J
I carried out a large service on one just 2 weeks ago; no problem getting parts.
There is a problem with body parts such as wings and some panels, but you can usually source them from Germany on E bay.
J
It's the same with a lot of old cars. Get beyond a few old favourites like MGBs and RWD escorts, and availability of bits is distinctly sketchy. You do what you can - autojumbles, eBay, moan at the owners club until they stump up the cash to remake bits, or adapt something from another vehicle. Hardly a showstopper though.
Thanks guys. I love these cars (I was really into 1980s rallying, born '65 so remember seeing a Tornado red quattro in 83 when I was 18) but I do need something I can use a an an infrequent second car. These are too fragile in terms of parts availsbity to be viable. I think it comes back to a Porsche 993 and the kids will have to miss out!
dave stew said:
Thanks guys. I love these cars (I was really into 1980s rallying, born '65 so remember seeing a Tornado red quattro in 83 when I was 18) but I do need something I can use a an an infrequent second car. These are too fragile in terms of parts availsbity to be viable. I think it comes back to a Porsche 993 and the kids will have to miss out!
Similar concerns put me off a Quattro a couple of years ago (rightly or wrongly). I've been spoilt by the BMW Classic service - parts for old 3, 5 and 6 series have all been readily available at sensible prices from my local main dealer.I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
) who basically had his whole house stocked up with spares for quattros? Gruber said:
Similar concerns put me off a Quattro a couple of years ago (rightly or wrongly). I've been spoilt by the BMW Classic service - parts for old 3, 5 and 6 series have all been readily available at sensible prices from my local main dealer.
I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
I've never seen the point of the Quattro as a fast road car.Four wheel drive is only really any use for doing silly speeds in bad conditions and on loose/slippery surfaces which realistically probably just means it'll leave the road going faster in the real world with all the added complication.It uses an inherently uneven 5 cylinder engine of too small capacity which they then had to bolt a turbocharger on with all the added complication of that to make around 200 ish hp.Then even Audi seem to be thinking the same thing by starving the remaining ones of spares to get rid of the things.If it must be German then the 6 cylinder,or even V8,M5 range has to be the better choice.Unless you want a rally car.In which case the thing is probably still outclassed as an all rounder in terms of fun and running costs by a decent Mk1 or 2 Escort. I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
There's a chap near me who uses his frequently enough (I see it at least once a week) and it was at the CarsinthePark show in Lichfield this weekend. Aside from the s
tty BBS wheels he's put on it, it looks fantastic.
I don't know how many miles he puts on it and I don't think I've seen it out in the rain and snow, but it definitely gets used a lot more than just twice a year on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Sounds awesome too! He drives it hard (so hard in fact the first time I saw it I honestly wondered if I should report it as stolen).
tty BBS wheels he's put on it, it looks fantastic. I don't know how many miles he puts on it and I don't think I've seen it out in the rain and snow, but it definitely gets used a lot more than just twice a year on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Sounds awesome too! He drives it hard (so hard in fact the first time I saw it I honestly wondered if I should report it as stolen).
XJ Flyer said:
Gruber said:
Similar concerns put me off a Quattro a couple of years ago (rightly or wrongly). I've been spoilt by the BMW Classic service - parts for old 3, 5 and 6 series have all been readily available at sensible prices from my local main dealer.
I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
I've never seen the point of the Quattro as a fast road car.Four wheel drive is only really any use for doing silly speeds in bad conditions and on loose/slippery surfaces which realistically probably just means it'll leave the road going faster in the real world with all the added complication.It uses an inherently uneven 5 cylinder engine of too small capacity which they then had to bolt a turbocharger on with all the added complication of that to make around 200 ish hp.Then even Audi seem to be thinking the same thing by starving the remaining ones of spares to get rid of the things.If it must be German then the 6 cylinder,or even V8,M5 range has to be the better choice.Unless you want a rally car.In which case the thing is probably still outclassed as an all rounder in terms of fun and running costs by a decent Mk1 or 2 Escort. I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
The 5 cylinder Audi engine is one of the finest engines ever produce anywhere. And I state that as a motor engineer of well over 40 years experience. It was at the time far smoother, more reliable and, most importantly, in normally aspirated form far more economical than its BMW or Mercedes competitors.
The first Audi 100 low drag models that appeared in 1981 were capable of almost 50 MPG at 56 MPH; and that was without a cat or electronic injection.
In case it has escaped your notice we live in the UK, which means we have to deal with our driving in appalling conditions on a large percentage of journeys. This is where the Quattro is in a class of its own; absolutely no comparison.
Your comparison with an Escort is a joke, right?
J
jith said:
XJ Flyer said:
Gruber said:
Similar concerns put me off a Quattro a couple of years ago (rightly or wrongly). I've been spoilt by the BMW Classic service - parts for old 3, 5 and 6 series have all been readily available at sensible prices from my local main dealer.
I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
I've never seen the point of the Quattro as a fast road car.Four wheel drive is only really any use for doing silly speeds in bad conditions and on loose/slippery surfaces which realistically probably just means it'll leave the road going faster in the real world with all the added complication.It uses an inherently uneven 5 cylinder engine of too small capacity which they then had to bolt a turbocharger on with all the added complication of that to make around 200 ish hp.Then even Audi seem to be thinking the same thing by starving the remaining ones of spares to get rid of the things.If it must be German then the 6 cylinder,or even V8,M5 range has to be the better choice.Unless you want a rally car.In which case the thing is probably still outclassed as an all rounder in terms of fun and running costs by a decent Mk1 or 2 Escort. I can do you a good deal on an e28 M5 - all the speed, excellent parts availability and the kids can ride too!
The 5 cylinder Audi engine is one of the finest engines ever produce anywhere. And I state that as a motor engineer of well over 40 years experience. It was at the time far smoother, more reliable and, most importantly, in normally aspirated form far more economical than its BMW or Mercedes competitors.
The first Audi 100 low drag models that appeared in 1981 were capable of almost 50 MPG at 56 MPH; and that was without a cat or electronic injection.
In case it has escaped your notice we live in the UK, which means we have to deal with our driving in appalling conditions on a large percentage of journeys. This is where the Quattro is in a class of its own; absolutely no comparison.
Your comparison with an Escort is a joke, right?
J
So while I'm not disputing that the Quattro was one of the greatest ever rally cars of all time given proffessional rally teams with loads of money to throw at them.That probably isn't relevant to the average driver who's just looking for a quick road car.Or even something to go rallying with at ordinary levels found in classic rallying.However for anyone who'd prefer a Quattro together with all the complication of turbocharging and four wheel drive to have a less powerful car than an M5 the choice is obviously there.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 7th July 23:32
Spent a month looking for a headlight for a 1986 Audi coupé for a friend, since his car had failed the MOT due to a rusty reflector. In the end dismantled the said light and bought a can of chrome spray, since it was impossible to find a headlight - anywhere. He sold the car, which he'd had for over 20 years, to a collector for about £2K in the end and now drives a Mondeo.
XJ Flyer said:
I've got no real world experience of running any of the classic BMW M5's either or rallying.But I do know that a Quattro isn't going to be quicker than any of those BMW's without some serious power upgrades and the laws of physics say that the BMW 6 cylinder or V8 engines in the M5 must have better natural balance.While the Mk 1/2 Escorts weren't exactly uncompetitive no hopers in rallying.While in all cases non of those needed all the added complication of turbocharging and four wheel drive transmission.I've also got no real world experience of driving a four wheel drive car in bad winter conditions here but I have managed fine with the rear wheel drive cars which I've used through some of the worst winters in recent memory since the 1970's.
So while I'm not disputing that the Quattro was one of the greatest ever rally cars of all time given proffessional rally teams with loads of money to throw at them.That probably isn't relevant to the average driver who's just looking for a quick road car.Or even something to go rallying with at ordinary levels found in classic rallying.However for anyone who'd prefer a Quattro together with all the complication of turbocharging and four wheel drive to have a less powerful car than an M5 the choice is obviously there.
With respect, there's some odd stuff in here that suggests you should perhaps get some experience in some of these cars before spouting forth. So while I'm not disputing that the Quattro was one of the greatest ever rally cars of all time given proffessional rally teams with loads of money to throw at them.That probably isn't relevant to the average driver who's just looking for a quick road car.Or even something to go rallying with at ordinary levels found in classic rallying.However for anyone who'd prefer a Quattro together with all the complication of turbocharging and four wheel drive to have a less powerful car than an M5 the choice is obviously there.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 7th July 23:32
The two Quattros I've driven were an absolutely joy. Nice sharp turn in, a lightness that modern cars just don't have, a stunning soundtrack, remarkable traction and an addictive shove as the turbo spools up. Yes its a very different driving experience to old-school rwd saloon cars, but that doesn't make it worse. My perfect 6-car garage would definitely contain a Quattro.
The two reasons I didn't go for one in the end were concerns about parts availability and limited luggage space (I like to use my cars for annual Euro-jaunts for me and Mrs G). On these two scores, the old BMWs had the Audi licked.
lowdrag said:
Spent a month looking for a headlight for a 1986 Audi coupé for a friend, since his car had failed the MOT due to a rusty reflector. In the end dismantled the said light and bought a can of chrome spray, since it was impossible to find a headlight - anywhere. He sold the car, which he'd had for over 20 years, to a collector for about £2K in the end and now drives a Mondeo.
Well lowdrag, I distinctly remember posting to you at least 2 suppliers of headlamp reflectors and one company in England who would rechrome the reflectors.I had a couple done just a few weeks ago.
J
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