Thursday 14th October 2004

New Merc engine to deliver massive torque

Huge twisting power to come from secret project

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The world's most powerful passenger car engine is secretly under development at Mercedes, according to a report in this week's Autocar.

Designed to go head-to-head with Volkswagen’s 5.0-litre V10 (see pic), to be found in the Touareg and Phaeton, the 6.0-litre V12 is alleged to use piezo injectors and twin turbochargers to produce 360 bhp and a stonking 686 ft/lb of torque. That's more torque than any other engine of its kind.

The V12's design start point was Merc's new 3.0-litre V6 diesel -- Autocar's sources reckon that the dimensions, architecture and components are shared with the new engine.

Autocar goes on to suggest that the recipients of this mighty powerplant could be the new G-, M-, R- and S-class, or even the Maybach über-barge. Merc's biggest prop-shaft twister so far has been a 4 litre V8 delivering 256 bhp and 413 ft/lb.

[skid]

Pic of a petrol W12 not VAG TD V10.

Oops???

Mark

edited to add...... 686ft/Ib's!

edited to add...... Ah the right pic! That was quick service for you.

>>> Edited by skid on Thursday 14th October 10:11

>>> Edited by skid on Thursday 14th October 10:43

[FourWheelDrift]

said:

Merc's biggest prop-shaft twister so far has been a 4 litre V8 delivering 256 bhp and 413 ft/lb.

That seems very low.

What about the Maybach's current - 550 bhp/664 lb-ft ?
And the Mercedes V12 (AMG M 120) that comes with the Zonda - 555 bhp/553 lb-ft.

[Andrew Noakes]

...or the McLaren SLR V8, 626bhp and 575lb ft?

And 'ft/lb' is nonsense, by the way, torque is force x distance not force / distance.

[ffelan]

assume the story relates to diesel and is just badly written / presented...?

[B16 RFF]

Andrew Noakes said:

...or the McLaren SLR V8, 626bhp and 575lb ft? And 'ft/lb' is nonsense, by the way, torque is force x distance not force / distance.

Yep, torque is lb.feet (or Newton.Metres). Foot.lbs is a measure of work done (e.g. a force of X lbs moved through Y feet is X.Y foot.lbs)

[Ian Lewis]

Yep, torque is lb.feet (or Newton.Metres). Foot.lbs is a measure of work done (e.g. a force of X lbs moved through Y feet is X.Y foot.lbs) [/quote]

Can you kindly explain this in more detail?

Many thanks-in advance

Ian

[imperialism2024]

FourWheelDrift said:

said: Merc's biggest prop-shaft twister so far has been a 4 litre V8 delivering 256 bhp and 413 ft/lb. That seems very low. What about the Maybach's current - 550 bhp/664 lb-ft ? And the Mercedes V12 (AMG M 120) that comes with the Zonda - 555 bhp/553 lb-ft.

Yes, I could have sworn that Mercedes had a torquier (is that a word?) engine delivering somewhere in the league of 550lb/ft...

[rico]

FourWheelDrift said:

That seems very low. What about the Maybach's current - 550 bhp/664 lb-ft ? And the Mercedes V12 (AMG M 120) that comes with the Zonda - 555 bhp/553 lb-ft.

article said:

That's more torque than any other engine of its kind.

[FourWheelDrift]

rico said:

FourWheelDrift said: That seems very low. What about the Maybach's current - 550 bhp/664 lb-ft ? And the Mercedes V12 (AMG M 120) that comes with the Zonda - 555 bhp/553 lb-ft. article said: That's more torque than any other engine of its kind.

Read my post, you have mis-quoted me as I was compairing it to the "Merc's biggest prop-shaft twister so far has been a 4 litre V8 delivering 256 bhp and 413 ft/lb." at the end of the article.

[kevinday]

FourWheelDrift said:

rico said: FourWheelDrift said: That seems very low. What about the Maybach's current - 550 bhp/664 lb-ft ? And the Mercedes V12 (AMG M 120) that comes with the Zonda - 555 bhp/553 lb-ft. article said: That's more torque than any other engine of its kind. Read my post, you have mis-quoted me as I was compairing it to the "Merc's biggest prop-shaft twister so far has been a 4 litre V8 delivering 256 bhp and 413 ft/lb." at the end of the article.

Ahha, but the article was only talking about diesels, so the 4 litre is also a diesel (well, that was my assumption)

[wedgepilot]

That torque figure seems a little low for a big turbo diesel. Doesn't the SL65 AMG petrol uber-engine (6.0 twin turbo V12 as well?) pump out over 1000 lbft, and have to be limited so it doesn't grenade the drivetrain...?

[RosCabezas]

Ian Lewis said:

Can you kindly explain this in more detail? Ian

Torque is the strenght times the distance. Imagine a screwdriver vs. a lever. If the distance to the center is bigger, the strenght needs to be lower, to be able to apply the same torque.

[cdp]

B16 RFF said:

Andrew Noakes said: ...or the McLaren SLR V8, 626bhp and 575lb ft? And 'ft/lb' is nonsense, by the way, torque is force x distance not force / distance. Yep, torque is lb.feet (or Newton.Metres). Foot.lbs is a measure of work done (e.g. a force of X lbs moved through Y feet is X.Y foot.lbs)

Force * Distance is the same as Distance * Force so lbft = ftlb

In anycase BMW's new twin sequential diesel is 272bhp from 3.5 litres and Vauxhall's 228 from only 1.9 (they have been showing it off but it's not yet in production). Both have extremely high torque figures too. So the Mercedes diesel doesn't sound that powerful in comparision - but maybe they want it to drive well instead of simple figures.

[ed.]

The bmw 272bhp diesel '535' is a 3ltr with sequential turbos...
opps that was a bit picky

edited cos I can't spell

>> Edited by ed. on Thursday 14th October 13:26

[mg511]

Pah! Duncam Hamilton have in an Aston Virage Lynx Turbo with a 7 litre turbo engine, 725bhp @ 4000rpm and 1,150 lb ft torque @ 3,100rpm!
www.duncanhamilton.com/

[B16 RFF]

cdp said:

B16 RFF said: Andrew Noakes said: ...or the McLaren SLR V8, 626bhp and 575lb ft? And 'ft/lb' is nonsense, by the way, torque is force x distance not force / distance. Yep, torque is lb.feet (or Newton.Metres). Foot.lbs is a measure of work done (e.g. a force of X lbs moved through Y feet is X.Y foot.lbs) Force * Distance is the same as Distance * Force so lbft = ftlb

At first glance, yes, but you need a standard to differentiate between torque and work. That standard is that torque is expressed in units of Force.Length(or Distance) and work is t'other way.
I should also have said that work done is the force multiplied by the distance moved in the direction of the force .

>> Edited by B16 RFF on Thursday 14th October 14:05

[Marki]

Yeah Merc need to do something , they have fallen way behind in the Power stakes

[ATG]

cdp said:

B16 RFF said: Andrew Noakes said: ...or the McLaren SLR V8, 626bhp and 575lb ft? And 'ft/lb' is nonsense, by the way, torque is force x distance not force / distance. Yep, torque is lb.feet (or Newton.Metres). Foot.lbs is a measure of work done (e.g. a force of X lbs moved through Y feet is X.Y foot.lbs) Force * Distance is the same as Distance * Force so lbft = ftlb

Yup. The unit of Torque and Work Done is Force * Distance ... but the Force in the Torque calculation is at right angles to the distance, whereas the Force and Distance for Work are parallel to each other. Work is "force through a distance", and torque is "force times distance from pivot"

[burwoodman]

Maybach über-barge. What the fk for? I can't see anyone spending 250k on car ticking the diesil option

[Pesmo]

Think I agree with WedgePilot. They must be electronically limiting the torque like they do on some of the largest diesels to preserve the gearboxes. Nearly 4ft/lb per HP is not unusual for some diesel engines, admittedly big ones.

>> Edited by Pesmo on Thursday 14th October 20:35