oil turned to Boot Polish - Help please
Discussion
OK so I may have done a very silly thing but then again it might just be terminal anyway!
I bought a £400 120k mile MR2 last year to get me back and forth from Northern Germany to Dover. It has now done 140k miles and was running fine(ish) for an old motor. It started playing up about 2 months ago and wouldn’t start when warm and then didn’t start at all. I thought it might be a fuelling issue as it sounded a little like it was starving when it tried to start previously and it didn’t come with any servicing data so I am not sure when the fuel filter was last changed. I have bought a new filter, new HT leads, although they are the wrong ones and cannot be fitted, and have set about fitting them. As I have not been in the car for the past two months the battery is flat so that is out and charging. Whilst I had the time I thought I’d clean the throttle body as well. My thinking being that is I clean out the airway and fuel system and provide a good spark then all should be good. I fitted new spark plugs about 6 months ago so those should be fine. I also cleaned the rotor and distributer cap.
Now for the problem. In my wisdom I decided that whilst I was cleaning it would be nice to get some of the crud off the rocker cover. So I’ve taken it off and the whole of the top of the engine looks like someone has filled it with boot polish. The cams are covered, all of the cylinder head is thickly crusted and the rocker cover is just disgusting. Now I can clean the rocker cover, mainly by scraping out the crud, but the head is a different matter. I guess that I have dislodged quite a bit of this mess simply by taking the cover off so I am going to have to do something about it.
Firstly is there anything simple that can cause this? Should I be looking for a solution to that first or is it likely to be age and old oil that has never been cleaned out? Can I clean it or is the engine now scrap? If I get some oil flush and try my best to clean out the head and then do a whole oil change am I likely to simply block up all of the small oil ways and ruin the engine anyway?
Does anyone have any advice? The car is a Rev 1 with the 3S-FE engine if that makes any difference.
Many thanks,
Jon
I bought a £400 120k mile MR2 last year to get me back and forth from Northern Germany to Dover. It has now done 140k miles and was running fine(ish) for an old motor. It started playing up about 2 months ago and wouldn’t start when warm and then didn’t start at all. I thought it might be a fuelling issue as it sounded a little like it was starving when it tried to start previously and it didn’t come with any servicing data so I am not sure when the fuel filter was last changed. I have bought a new filter, new HT leads, although they are the wrong ones and cannot be fitted, and have set about fitting them. As I have not been in the car for the past two months the battery is flat so that is out and charging. Whilst I had the time I thought I’d clean the throttle body as well. My thinking being that is I clean out the airway and fuel system and provide a good spark then all should be good. I fitted new spark plugs about 6 months ago so those should be fine. I also cleaned the rotor and distributer cap.
Now for the problem. In my wisdom I decided that whilst I was cleaning it would be nice to get some of the crud off the rocker cover. So I’ve taken it off and the whole of the top of the engine looks like someone has filled it with boot polish. The cams are covered, all of the cylinder head is thickly crusted and the rocker cover is just disgusting. Now I can clean the rocker cover, mainly by scraping out the crud, but the head is a different matter. I guess that I have dislodged quite a bit of this mess simply by taking the cover off so I am going to have to do something about it.
Firstly is there anything simple that can cause this? Should I be looking for a solution to that first or is it likely to be age and old oil that has never been cleaned out? Can I clean it or is the engine now scrap? If I get some oil flush and try my best to clean out the head and then do a whole oil change am I likely to simply block up all of the small oil ways and ruin the engine anyway?
Does anyone have any advice? The car is a Rev 1 with the 3S-FE engine if that makes any difference.
Many thanks,
Jon
Jonleeper said:
I can live with that but my question is really is it terminal or can I clean it as best as possible then flush with an additive and breath new life back into the engine?
With such a high level of gunge, using any flush could carry risks.Removing parts and thoroughly cleaning them would be fine though. And if it's bad, removing the sump and making sure it and the oil strainer are clear would be a wise move.
Ive heard of more than a handful of MR2's with big end failure due to lack of oilflow, and a blocked strainer largely to blame.
If you feel you have little to loose - drain a couple of pints from the sump, chuck in a litre of diesel instead and let it idle until hot (do not put the engine under any load). Stop, and drain /change the oil and filter before driving anywhere.
Sounds brutal but it will completely dissolve an awful lot of crud and frankly, that's all 'flushing oils' amount to (except they are a very expensive way to buy diesel). Stuff dissolved of course passes out in the oil change - it's not the same as knocking off a clod or two that might later clog a finer oilway.
So - such treatment won't actually 'ruin' the engine. And if the rings/valve seals etc. were shot before, they will remain shot...
Sounds brutal but it will completely dissolve an awful lot of crud and frankly, that's all 'flushing oils' amount to (except they are a very expensive way to buy diesel). Stuff dissolved of course passes out in the oil change - it's not the same as knocking off a clod or two that might later clog a finer oilway.
So - such treatment won't actually 'ruin' the engine. And if the rings/valve seals etc. were shot before, they will remain shot...
Edited by Huff on Friday 12th July 23:38
Huff said:
If you feel you have little to loose - drain a couple of pints from the sump, chuck in a litre of diesel instead and let it idle until hot (do not put the engine under any load). Stop, and drain /change the oil and filter before driving anywhere.
Sounds brutal but it will completely dissolve an awful lot of crud and frankly, that's all 'flushing oils' amount to (except they are a very expensive way to buy diesel). Stuff dissolved of course passes out in the oil change - it's not the same as knocking off a clod or two that might later clog a finer oilway.
So - such treatment won't actually 'ruin' the engine. And if the rings/valve seals etc. were shot before, they will remain shot...
Thanks for this. I've cleaned the rocker cover and will, carefully, remove as much of the hard crud from the head I can get to. (As long as I can get the whole thing to work) I'll take to to the workshop and flush as you describe before running it up the lift to remove the sump and do a full oil change.Sounds brutal but it will completely dissolve an awful lot of crud and frankly, that's all 'flushing oils' amount to (except they are a very expensive way to buy diesel). Stuff dissolved of course passes out in the oil change - it's not the same as knocking off a clod or two that might later clog a finer oilway.
So - such treatment won't actually 'ruin' the engine. And if the rings/valve seals etc. were shot before, they will remain shot...
Edited by Huff on Friday 12th July 23:38
I hope it's not terminal, both as i quite like the car and I'll then be stuck in Germany, and she can be got back to where she was when i bought her, although without the crud! ;-)
By flushing that you risk dislodging the crud and blocking oilways which will lead to engine destruction.
Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
stevieturbo said:
By flushing that you risk dislodging the crud and blocking oilways which will lead to engine destruction.
Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
I know I'm skirting on the ragged edge with this one but I'm not sure I have much of a choice. I'm posted and am leaving Germany at some point during the very first weekend in Aug. I have to get the car running by then or i don't get home, well not very easily and certainly not with all my stuff. I need to get it back up and running so that it at least gets me home. My feeling is that I will finish the cleaning that I'm doing at the moment and then see if i can get it to run. Once I've got that far it's off to the lift and sump off and clean under there as well. I was wondering if there is any way to flush through whilst the head and sump are both off? If not then it's a flush, flush again and hope that the diesel will dissolve all of the crud and not let anything too important block.Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
Thanks for the advice though.
As an aside when any of the old oil is even touched it flakes and crumbles like dry soil! I'm sure that by taking the cover off I've dislodged a load of bits anyway. Also I'm not sure that any of the oilways are still clear, that would be a miracle of it's own!
Edited by Jonleeper for spooling on Saturday 13th July 10:27
Edited by Jonleeper on Saturday 13th July 10:28
Is there even any oil getting to the head at the moment, it does look a a bit 'dry'.
As for oilways getting blocked I think it's too late for that, that looks pretty far gone.
If it's currently dead and there isn't time for a full strip down I'd be tempted to fill the whole thing with diesel, let it sit and see what happens. Though I'd probably test with a sample first and see exactly how well the crud disolves, and how long it takes.
As for oilways getting blocked I think it's too late for that, that looks pretty far gone.
If it's currently dead and there isn't time for a full strip down I'd be tempted to fill the whole thing with diesel, let it sit and see what happens. Though I'd probably test with a sample first and see exactly how well the crud disolves, and how long it takes.
Hard to know where to go with this one.
It's unlikely the crud is causing a non start scenario though. I'd be trying to get it started before you go flushing or cleaning too much.
But even then, flushing it would be a huge risk IMO unless you're prepared to do a more involved stripdown of the engine.
I'd nearly be inclined to try and pick up another cheap motor and cut your losses with that if you cant get it started easily.
It's unlikely the crud is causing a non start scenario though. I'd be trying to get it started before you go flushing or cleaning too much.
But even then, flushing it would be a huge risk IMO unless you're prepared to do a more involved stripdown of the engine.
I'd nearly be inclined to try and pick up another cheap motor and cut your losses with that if you cant get it started easily.
stevieturbo said:
Hard to know where to go with this one.
It's unlikely the crud is causing a non start scenario though. I'd be trying to get it started before you go flushing or cleaning too much.
But even then, flushing it would be a huge risk IMO unless you're prepared to do a more involved stripdown of the engine.
I'd nearly be inclined to try and pick up another cheap motor and cut your losses with that if you cant get it started easily.
I don't have a problem doing a more involved stripdown, in fact I would enjoy it, I just don't have time at the moment. I am sourcing some diesel at the moment and will do a small clean-up before the cover goes back on and I try and start it. If it goes then I'll get it to the workshop and run it up on the lift to drop the sump off and have a look / clean. If it all looks good, and i have the time, I'll strip the cover off again and see if there is oil getting though. If there is still time to do more I'll flush and change the oil. I hope it will then get me back to the UK. I am due 3 weeks summer leave at some point so will try to find a space where I can do a little more during this period. If I can is it an engine out and strip / rebuild job? Should I be looking at getting the block cleaned / dipped? If that is the case it would probably be just as cheap to source another engine!It's unlikely the crud is causing a non start scenario though. I'd be trying to get it started before you go flushing or cleaning too much.
But even then, flushing it would be a huge risk IMO unless you're prepared to do a more involved stripdown of the engine.
I'd nearly be inclined to try and pick up another cheap motor and cut your losses with that if you cant get it started easily.
IMO to get that clean is a complete engine stripdown. And engine removal will almost certainly require a lift, as it needs to drop out from below along with suspension etc.
A replacement engine would be easier....but who knows what state it might be in.
A replacement car might just be easier lol
A replacement engine would be easier....but who knows what state it might be in.
A replacement car might just be easier lol
That IS bad. Usually referred to as the 'black death'. I've seen a couple of Rover V8's (and pics of a Land Rover TDi) that were as bad, but still ran quite happily. Usual cause is low quality oil and zero maintenance.
The ONLY real cure is a complete strip & clean of all the parts. Trying to flush with solvents/flushing oils is very risky as you are likely to have a dislodged piece of crap block something important.
The ONLY real cure is a complete strip & clean of all the parts. Trying to flush with solvents/flushing oils is very risky as you are likely to have a dislodged piece of crap block something important.
stevieturbo said:
By flushing that you risk dislodging the crud and blocking oilways which will lead to engine destruction.
Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
This Do so at your own risk.
That has to be one of the worst engines Ive ever seen !!!
You would be very wise to remove the sump and inspect/clean it as I described. I would not be running a flush of any kind through it though
very wise words 
have not seen one this bad since the Cologne V6 & CVH engine Ford days 
When I used to build many Ford CVH race engines for customers each year it was quite common to see the donor lumps they supplied me from old road cars in a very similar state inside. Sometimes you couldn't find the bolt heads to dismantle them because they were so coated in gunge. Olde worlde mineral oil and infrequent changes leads to these carbon deposits dropping out of suspension and building up on stationary surfaces. You see it rarely nowadays with synthetic and semi synthetic oils.
It's doing no real harm on the stationary surfaces as long as flakes don't break off and end up in the oil. The moving / contacting surfaces obviously wipe themselves clean all the time. If you start messing with it with solvents it'll result in carbon particles getting into the sump and pumping through the crank bearings which might score them.
I'd leave it well alone provided you have good compression readings (do a cranking test) and good oil pressure until you can strip the engine and have everything chemically cleaned but it's not worth the money to rebuild the engine for such a cheap car - so again leave it alone. I might just hoover out the loose flakes and whatever you can scrape off easily seeing as the rocker cover is already off.
Putting a litre of diesel in the oil and trying to run that as a flush is a really bad idea. You won't dissolve very much of it but what does come off will go through the oil pump and crank bearings before you can change the oil again.
The only other sensible thing to do would be to use petrol or paint thinners and an old toothbrush to remove as much of it as you can before refitting the rocker cover and then drain the sump and change the oil before you start it up again. You can make a handy carbon scraper which won't damage anything metal by filing the end of the handle of a hard plastic handled toothbrush into a chisel edge.
It's doing no real harm on the stationary surfaces as long as flakes don't break off and end up in the oil. The moving / contacting surfaces obviously wipe themselves clean all the time. If you start messing with it with solvents it'll result in carbon particles getting into the sump and pumping through the crank bearings which might score them.
I'd leave it well alone provided you have good compression readings (do a cranking test) and good oil pressure until you can strip the engine and have everything chemically cleaned but it's not worth the money to rebuild the engine for such a cheap car - so again leave it alone. I might just hoover out the loose flakes and whatever you can scrape off easily seeing as the rocker cover is already off.
Putting a litre of diesel in the oil and trying to run that as a flush is a really bad idea. You won't dissolve very much of it but what does come off will go through the oil pump and crank bearings before you can change the oil again.
The only other sensible thing to do would be to use petrol or paint thinners and an old toothbrush to remove as much of it as you can before refitting the rocker cover and then drain the sump and change the oil before you start it up again. You can make a handy carbon scraper which won't damage anything metal by filing the end of the handle of a hard plastic handled toothbrush into a chisel edge.
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