John Ravenscroft
Discussion
I have heard this too. If it's true, then frankly, I can't blame the guy. John is a seriously talented engineer and it should not be forgotten that the engine designs as supplied by Melling (allegedly) didn't bloody work. It was John who pretty much single handedly got both the V8 and S6 to run properly, produce big power and turn out two staggeringly capable engines on less that a shoestring budget. I personally think the guy has done a phenomenal job. The realibility issues in the S6 (aside from the oilway issue, which was resolved)solely arise from the use of chocolate in it's manufacture.
Time and time again I say this - there's some very talented and very committed engineers at TVR, John being one of them, Neill Anderson another who would *dearly* like to build a well engineered and reliable car, but when those in power say "Sorry, but you can't spend more than £7.50 on the engine components" then their hands are tied and it's a crying shame...
Time and time again I say this - there's some very talented and very committed engineers at TVR, John being one of them, Neill Anderson another who would *dearly* like to build a well engineered and reliable car, but when those in power say "Sorry, but you can't spend more than £7.50 on the engine components" then their hands are tied and it's a crying shame...
I think it'd be great to see peter wheeler, john ravenscroft, ben samuelson and neill anderson all get together and set up a small specialist car manufacturing outfit to cater for enthusiasts ..
.. forget the troublesome elctrics .. just get back to a great looking brutish machine in the mould of the older TVRs .. am I the only one to think TVR got too clever too quickly .. a return to the roots of british sports cars could be a winner..
come on you four, what about it? .. I'll even help
.. forget the troublesome elctrics .. just get back to a great looking brutish machine in the mould of the older TVRs .. am I the only one to think TVR got too clever too quickly .. a return to the roots of british sports cars could be a winner..
come on you four, what about it? .. I'll even help
roop said:
I have heard this too. If it's true, then frankly, I can't blame the guy. John is a seriously talented engineer and it should not be forgotten that the engine designs as supplied by Melling (allegedly) didn't bloody work. It was John who pretty much single handedly got both the V8 and S6 to run properly, produce big power and turn out two staggeringly capable engines on less that a shoestring budget. I personally think the guy has done a phenomenal job. The realibility issues in the S6 (aside from the oilway issue, which was resolved)solely arise from the use of chocolate in it's manufacture.
Time and time again I say this - there's some very talented and very committed engineers at TVR, John being one of them, Neill Anderson another who would *dearly* like to build a well engineered and reliable car, but when those in power say "Sorry, but you can't spend more than £7.50 on the engine components" then their hands are tied and it's a crying shame...
Interesting comments Roop, I heard almost exactly the opposite, in that John developed the engine and made it fit in with the TVR chassis - things like the original design being for the top chassis rail to bolt off but was changed to welded in place, thus leading to not being able to get the head off the AJP 6 engine (as it was called then) to do the tappets
Oh yes, and allegedly PWs Tuscan race engine had the 5.0 engine built by MCD.....
Of course this is all hear say, but interesting to hear two totally opposite sides - leaves me wondering who to believe?? Possibly somewhere in the middle I guess
(This is meant as a having a go thread Roop, I know who you are and all your links to the TVR world and know you wouldn't make up this type of thing, just didnt think the other guy would have done either)
Graham
That is interesting Graham. 
You're right that it's nice to see two sides of the same story. I learned my info from three different guys at the factory, two in racing and one development - all senior guys and all respect John for what he did with the two original engine designs which were modified significantly from what was handed over to make them work as advertised. It could be hearsay, but these chaps all told me the same thing at different times and under different situations. Who knows...?
John almost solely developed PRW's AJP8 in the Tuscan race car while everyone else was running the RV8 and judging by it's reliability and performance, did a sensational job. Yep, PRW ran all sorts of bigger motors in Tuscans, but I'd wager good money on the fact they came out of Blackpool and that John prolly had a hand in them...
John's also the chap that built the rather special AJP8 that went in my dad's Cerbera that produced some pretty stonking dyno figures compared with stock production motors...
I'd be interested to know where you got the info from - strictly mum's the word of course. Mail me off-line if you like for a chat...
You're right that it's nice to see two sides of the same story. I learned my info from three different guys at the factory, two in racing and one development - all senior guys and all respect John for what he did with the two original engine designs which were modified significantly from what was handed over to make them work as advertised. It could be hearsay, but these chaps all told me the same thing at different times and under different situations. Who knows...? John almost solely developed PRW's AJP8 in the Tuscan race car while everyone else was running the RV8 and judging by it's reliability and performance, did a sensational job. Yep, PRW ran all sorts of bigger motors in Tuscans, but I'd wager good money on the fact they came out of Blackpool and that John prolly had a hand in them...
John's also the chap that built the rather special AJP8 that went in my dad's Cerbera that produced some pretty stonking dyno figures compared with stock production motors...
I'd be interested to know where you got the info from - strictly mum's the word of course. Mail me off-line if you like for a chat...
roop said:
...it should not be forgotten that the engine designs as supplied by Melling (allegedly) didn't bloody work. It was John who pretty much single handedly got both the V8 and S6 to run properly...
I think this is harsh if not real misinformation. Best not to go down this route too far as it's almost resulted in a libel case previously. I think it would be very naive to accept this version of events in its entirety.
As I understand it, TVR bought the designs / rights to produce the engines that MCD had designed. They were both fresh designs (although it's said they draw ideas from existing engines) and neither had got off the drawing board when TVR purchased them...
I remember being sat in a hotel bar near Snetterton when PRW went to his room, brough down a pencilled drawing of the AJP8 and showed about a half a dozen of us the picture and swore us all to secrecy. I remember the gleam in his eyes and how excited he was. We all though he was mad of course...!
IMHO, you still can't beat a Cerbie with a sorted AJP8. Not the most refined of motors or chassis for that matter, but what an absolutely startling looking maching with brutal power from a raucous explosive powerplant.
>> Edited by roop on Friday 15th October 00:39
I remember being sat in a hotel bar near Snetterton when PRW went to his room, brough down a pencilled drawing of the AJP8 and showed about a half a dozen of us the picture and swore us all to secrecy. I remember the gleam in his eyes and how excited he was. We all though he was mad of course...!
IMHO, you still can't beat a Cerbie with a sorted AJP8. Not the most refined of motors or chassis for that matter, but what an absolutely startling looking maching with brutal power from a raucous explosive powerplant.
>> Edited by roop on Friday 15th October 00:39
Hence they 'allegedly' bit. It's all second hand information, simply passing on what I have heard from people who really should know what they are talking about...! Doesn't represent my views or those of TVR or Pistonheads etc...
PetrolTed said:
I think this is harsh if not real misinformation. Best not to go down this route too far as it's almost resulted in a libel case previously. I think it would be very naive to accept this version of events in its entirety.
John's a clever bloke for sure, Have met him many times whilst I was at HHC and is always charming and always rushed off his feet. I can't believe that Melling (engineering consultant to the major motor manufacturers, the guy who sorts out *their* problem engines) would design an engine with significant inherent design booboos .. I'm very prepared to believe John did a lot of final tweaking and so on, but Melling is and engine-eer with a reputation for puzzle solving renowned the industry over .. you do the math...
* just my thoughts, I know no real facts behind the engine development at all, am just presenting the engineering backgrounds and apparent technical CVs of the guys involved .. would be great to know the real truth though
Roop .. is it possible the guys at the factory were a little bit biased, given that the split of TVR from Melling was rumoured to be less that friendly?
* just my thoughts, I know no real facts behind the engine development at all, am just presenting the engineering backgrounds and apparent technical CVs of the guys involved .. would be great to know the real truth though
Roop .. is it possible the guys at the factory were a little bit biased, given that the split of TVR from Melling was rumoured to be less that friendly?
Guys - I think we all forget one thing.
You don't have to wait to be pushed.
People like Ravenscroft and Anderson would very easily find a job at many other companies - very likely they might have been head hunted or gone in to the motorsport world.
I mentioned Cosworth - as it's a good place to get an engine reengineered but I guess we all know they could get an immediate improvement by getting better component quality.
You don't have to wait to be pushed.
People like Ravenscroft and Anderson would very easily find a job at many other companies - very likely they might have been head hunted or gone in to the motorsport world.
I mentioned Cosworth - as it's a good place to get an engine reengineered but I guess we all know they could get an immediate improvement by getting better component quality.
To put the record straight, John decided to take some time away from the day to day stuff at TVR after 18 years there. He has actually been working part-time for a while and is simply looking for a change in lifestyle.
Joos is right, John is a very talented engineer and he will be missed by TVR, but as to them buying in an engine...the current thinking in Blackpool says that is very wide of the mark. But anything these days is possible, like bringing in a new M.D. from within the sportscar industry to help Mr. Smolenski run the business...??
Joos is right, John is a very talented engineer and he will be missed by TVR, but as to them buying in an engine...the current thinking in Blackpool says that is very wide of the mark. But anything these days is possible, like bringing in a new M.D. from within the sportscar industry to help Mr. Smolenski run the business...??
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