Discussion
well at long last i decided to test this Evans Waterless Coolant. i have enough of the coolant to test on my noble,and my bike. i opted to try the bike first as i want to do a lot more data collecting and monitoring when i use this stuff in the noble.
well ive seen this stuff work in several tests,but its not until i tried it on my own vehicle did i really believe it works.today i flushed out the coolant of my suzuki gsxr 750 and filled up with this coolant. i ran the bike up till it was hot (fans kicked in at 220 degrees f)monitoring temps etc and collecting specific data was done in the process.
although i wouldnt recommend doing what i did next,this was also to see just how hot and how much pressure was in the system. immediately after turning the bike off,i removed the radiator cap!!!!!!!!!!!!!not a drop spilled out,proving as claimed, that it works with little or no pressure in the system.quite exciting as it does actually put very little stress on all the hoses.All the claims that they have made,have been proved by the results of the data and tests that ive collected using their waterless coolant. i cant wait to try it in the noble,just not looking forward to the bit of grief in getting all the water out.
well ive seen this stuff work in several tests,but its not until i tried it on my own vehicle did i really believe it works.today i flushed out the coolant of my suzuki gsxr 750 and filled up with this coolant. i ran the bike up till it was hot (fans kicked in at 220 degrees f)monitoring temps etc and collecting specific data was done in the process.
although i wouldnt recommend doing what i did next,this was also to see just how hot and how much pressure was in the system. immediately after turning the bike off,i removed the radiator cap!!!!!!!!!!!!!not a drop spilled out,proving as claimed, that it works with little or no pressure in the system.quite exciting as it does actually put very little stress on all the hoses.All the claims that they have made,have been proved by the results of the data and tests that ive collected using their waterless coolant. i cant wait to try it in the noble,just not looking forward to the bit of grief in getting all the water out.
Edited by tonyvan on Saturday 13th July 21:55
Edited by tonyvan on Saturday 13th July 21:58
Gonna cross post this into the Porsche 996 forum as it may be of interest there.
One of the reliability issues identified (speculatively) is that under certain use water can flash boil around the cylinders and cause bore scoring.
Perhaps this might help the situation.
Thanks
Andy
Just got to work out how to cross-post now...
One of the reliability issues identified (speculatively) is that under certain use water can flash boil around the cylinders and cause bore scoring.
Perhaps this might help the situation.
Thanks
Andy
Just got to work out how to cross-post now...
The engine temp will be higher using Evans waterless (for any given over stat temp situation).
The running pressure will be lower.
All water must be removed (<3%) left in the system, any top ups will require you to carry Evans "just in case".
In theory it is a one time fill and forget deal and if you don't lose coolant (from maintenance or accidental loss) it could work out cheaper over the vehicles life.
If this stuff was of any real benefit OEM would be using it as standard fitment, I can see some benefits for the race environment but very little to convince me that it would be any better than the proprietary anti-freeze mix that has been in use for a long while now.
Personally I prefer to run a few degrees cooler with my anti-freeze mix.
The running pressure will be lower.
All water must be removed (<3%) left in the system, any top ups will require you to carry Evans "just in case".
In theory it is a one time fill and forget deal and if you don't lose coolant (from maintenance or accidental loss) it could work out cheaper over the vehicles life.
If this stuff was of any real benefit OEM would be using it as standard fitment, I can see some benefits for the race environment but very little to convince me that it would be any better than the proprietary anti-freeze mix that has been in use for a long while now.
Personally I prefer to run a few degrees cooler with my anti-freeze mix.
Adrian W said:
What happens if you don't get every drop of water out.
prep fluid is used to remove and clean out the system prior to using the coolant.the claim is 3% of water can be left in the system.without going in all the data i collected on the tests ive done so far,but wot i will say is i didnt encounter higher water temps than that i had using an antifreeze mix.
in my opinon this coolant should help in protecting the head gasket as you are eliminating pressure in the system,and one other noticable thing i did find was that temps within the engine,and the water temp cooled down a lot quicker than they did with antifreeze mix.this will be an area i shall monitor very closely when i test it in the noble as boil over is something we suffer from.
tonyvan said:
prep fluid is used to remove and clean out the system prior to using the coolant.the claim is 3% of water can be left in the system.
without going in all the data i collected on the tests ive done so far,but wot i will say is i didnt encounter higher water temps than that i had using an antifreeze mix.
without going in all the data i collected on the tests ive done so far,but wot i will say is i didnt encounter higher water temps than that i had using an antifreeze mix.
FC said:
That'll be you stat or whatever other temperature control device doing its work, the Evans coolant won't be seeing anything other than normal temps being controlled at the set point of the system.
tonyvan said:
in my opinon this coolant should help in protecting the head gasket as you are eliminating pressure in the system
FC said:
Seriously?
the compression before ignition in the cylinders would equate to >10 bar let alone after. If you were worried about the coolant pressure overcoming the head gasket then I think I can put your mind at rest
the compression before ignition in the cylinders would equate to >10 bar let alone after. If you were worried about the coolant pressure overcoming the head gasket then I think I can put your mind at rest
tonyvan said:
and one other noticable thing i did find was that temps within the engine,and the water temp cooled down a lot quicker than they did with antifreeze mix.this will be an area i shall monitor very closely when i test it in the noble as boil over is something we suffer from.
FC said:
Not entirely true,
The waterless coolant has a lower specific heat capacity that plain water, So for any given ambient temp the waterless will give up heat slower than plain water.
There is some small print to this effect on the Evans site.
Obviously different mixes of antifreeze will give different results but it is unlikely that the specific heat capacity would drop lower than the waterless coolant.
Never had my car overheat, even with a leaky radiator or even during racing, the pressure in the system highlights where weak or perished hoses are before they fail completely, and it's free to top it up which is a regular thing if you use the car regularly.
Pressure can be bled off with the pressure release cap I have and changed a hose within a few minutes of turning the engine off at the weekend.
Can't see the benefits myself
Pressure can be bled off with the pressure release cap I have and changed a hose within a few minutes of turning the engine off at the weekend.
Can't see the benefits myself
Green3R said:
Gonna cross post this into the Porsche 996 forum as it may be of interest there.
One of the reliability issues identified (speculatively) is that under certain use water can flash boil around the cylinders and cause bore scoring.
Perhaps this might help the situation.
Thanks
Andy
Just got to work out how to cross-post now...
If you're talking about a hot spot surely this is down to nucleatic boiling, this shouldn't occur with Evans however that would also suggest that it wouldn't benefit from the high heat reduction that takes place from the phase change in water(perhaps not a good thing; cooling too quickly in one place??) remember the same heat is still present, it is just the boiling point that is moving upwards with waterless. One of the reliability issues identified (speculatively) is that under certain use water can flash boil around the cylinders and cause bore scoring.
Perhaps this might help the situation.
Thanks
Andy
Just got to work out how to cross-post now...
to be fair a lot of people have marginal cooling on their nobles but think everything is bang on as the guage either reads normal or overheated, no in-between!!!
I know my car as std was like this, and Ive seen people on track having same issue were everything is fine then suddenly it overheats... in truth the cars temps are creaping up all the time.
however I've done a lot of work on mine and its bang on now temp wise now
still very interested to see how this stuff goes on the noble... like the idea of less pressure in the system.
I know my car as std was like this, and Ive seen people on track having same issue were everything is fine then suddenly it overheats... in truth the cars temps are creaping up all the time.
however I've done a lot of work on mine and its bang on now temp wise now
still very interested to see how this stuff goes on the noble... like the idea of less pressure in the system.
andygtt said:
to be fair a lot of people have marginal cooling on their nobles but think everything is bang on as the guage either reads normal or overheated, no in-between!!!
I know my car as std was like this, and Ive seen people on track having same issue were everything is fine then suddenly it overheats... in truth the cars temps are creaping up all the time.
however I've done a lot of work on mine and its bang on now temp wise now
still very interested to see how this stuff goes on the noble... like the idea of less pressure in the system.
Mine was also like this, the gauge is controlled by the ecu hence the on/off indication.I know my car as std was like this, and Ive seen people on track having same issue were everything is fine then suddenly it overheats... in truth the cars temps are creaping up all the time.
however I've done a lot of work on mine and its bang on now temp wise now
still very interested to see how this stuff goes on the noble... like the idea of less pressure in the system.
I Also like the idea of a low pressure system, but surely it is better to fix the system than run higher temps?
When your gauge hits high wouldn't you stop and let the engine cool?
The temps aren't improved by the waterless at all, at best the system won't boil but if you continue to run into higher temps with the waterless surely you risk a catastrophic heat failure a bit further down the road?
I can see how it could help with a stationary race car waiting on the grid pre green light but that would be a short time before running into good airflow.
Regardless of the fact that the gauge only tells you when it's too late, I've never had that happen with all the abuse I give my car. Surely that tells you the system works, or at least for 12 laps of a race track at touring car pace in 23 degrees ambient and 30+ track temp... Lol that also goes for water injection as I didn't loose any power till my turbo-intercooler hose burst!
There are many more weak points to worry about before the cooling system needs any work, pro-alloy rad and silicone hoses are all that's needed. it works fine.
There are many more weak points to worry about before the cooling system needs any work, pro-alloy rad and silicone hoses are all that's needed. it works fine.
Edited by Hollowpockets on Monday 15th July 08:45
Hollowpockets said:
Regardless of the fact that the gauge only tells you when it's too late, I've never had that happen with all the abuse I give my car. Surely that tells you the system works, or at least for 12 laps of a race track at touring car pace... Lol
There are many more weak points to worry about before the cooling system needs any work, pro-alloy rad and silicone hoses are all that's needed. it works fine.
Did you race your car pre-alloy rad?There are many more weak points to worry about before the cooling system needs any work, pro-alloy rad and silicone hoses are all that's needed. it works fine.
Edited by Hollowpockets on Monday 15th July 08:43
Curious as I am trying to improve the heat dissipation in my engine (it has significantly more mass to heat soak) and an improved (?)
rad will help, just don't want to spunk £500+ on a marginal.
The trouble with the M96/7 cars are well documented, specific temp sensors need to be fitted and carefully monitored as the gauges in therse cars are damped in true temp and by reaction time so its difficult for the DIY to assertain any benefit,the pricipal is good and the low pressure obviously is of benefit how this will affect coolant flow stat openings etc Im not sure,also various sensors may need recalibration hence changing,Im sure manufacturers are aware of these products if colder coolant worked perhaps we would be running R32 or somesuch refrigerant,also metals react more when peramaters differ such as cold coolant in a hot engine so its a difficult issue with detalied analasis needed long term.
Gto 600 and myself have just done 2 days at Spa with the most extreme air and track temps , 36 degree air and 50degree track temp , both of us run a pro alloy rad with no issues on both low and high boost .
while I like the look of the evans coolant my concern is having to carry large quantitys of it around with me in case I get a leak .
Pro Alloy rad is the way forward along with opening up as much airflow as you can through the rad and engine bay .
Tux
while I like the look of the evans coolant my concern is having to carry large quantitys of it around with me in case I get a leak .
Pro Alloy rad is the way forward along with opening up as much airflow as you can through the rad and engine bay .
Tux
does this stuff conduct/dissipate heat any better than water?
The biggest problem we have is the water cooled turbo's, it really is a very bad design, throwing water at red hot turbo's and then shove water/steam/air back into the rest of the system, sorting this out would be by far the most cost effective and largest improvement opportunity, maybe a pre-rad or accumulator.
If you look at the coefficient of expansion of water, which is about 0.25 of a litre for 10 litres, yet to steam its about 1600:1. that's the gargling noise we all hear when we stop, if a clever bugger did the proper numbers it would prove this is the main issue.
The biggest problem we have is the water cooled turbo's, it really is a very bad design, throwing water at red hot turbo's and then shove water/steam/air back into the rest of the system, sorting this out would be by far the most cost effective and largest improvement opportunity, maybe a pre-rad or accumulator.
If you look at the coefficient of expansion of water, which is about 0.25 of a litre for 10 litres, yet to steam its about 1600:1. that's the gargling noise we all hear when we stop, if a clever bugger did the proper numbers it would prove this is the main issue.
Edited by Adrian W on Monday 15th July 10:58
Gary11 said:
F.C. said:
No, definitely not unless you change the laws of physics that is
Water has better latent heat qualities by some way.
Thats exactly my understanding.Water has better latent heat qualities by some way.
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