What fast telephoto lens for a moderate price (Nikon)?
Discussion
I was at Silverstone a few weeks back for the F1 as I'm sure many of you were and it struck me just how slow the auto-focus and generally slow (in terms of exposure) my Tamron 70-300mm f3.6-5.4 is. It was a cheap lens I'll grant but it was so slow to auto-focus with servo focus mode that it was verging on unusable for F1 speeds.
DSC_0246 by GroundEffect1987, on Flickr
DSC_0345 by GroundEffect1987, on Flickr
A couple of my better shots.
Is there anything out there for <£400 on a Nikon that would do what I'm looking for? My camera is a D3200. I'd like to keep around 200mm length on my crop sensor.
DSC_0246 by GroundEffect1987, on Flickr
DSC_0345 by GroundEffect1987, on Flickr
A couple of my better shots.
Is there anything out there for <£400 on a Nikon that would do what I'm looking for? My camera is a D3200. I'd like to keep around 200mm length on my crop sensor.
These any use ? A little over budget
http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
Neither has OS though - depends how steady your hands are
http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/used-equipment/us...
Neither has OS though - depends how steady your hands are
tog said:
That 300mm won't autofocus on the D3200.I think the default answer for the best reasonable-money telephoto for Nikon is the 70-300mm VR. It's not fast (in terms of aperture), but it is fast to focus and the VR is really very good (it also detects when you are panning and only compensates for up/down movement, handy for motorsport).
I don't know much about the off-brand lenses but that Sigma looks OK although lacks image stabilisation which is pretty useful in these lenses.
Let's not get confused between 'quick' as in speed of autofocus, and 'quick' as in big apertures.
The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
Simpo Two said:
Let's not get confused between 'quick' as in speed of autofocus, and 'quick' as in big apertures.
The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
Good points.The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
It's worth mentioning that the 55-200mm and 55-300mm are also both AF-S lenses but have significantly slower AF performance than the 70-300mm VR.
The next jump after the 70-300m VR is probably the 70-200 F4 which is getting pricey, again I'm ignoring the off-brand stuff.
Simpo Two said:
Let's not get confused between 'quick' as in speed of autofocus, and 'quick' as in big apertures.
The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
Yes I was careful in the language I used in the OP. My Tamron is always going to be a slow exposing lens at F5 max at a useful focal length but it's the auto-focus speed that's laughable. My 35mm F1.8 Nikkor is lightning in comparison.The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
I will take a look at the Nikon AF-S VR lens.
Simpo Two said:
Let's not get confused between 'quick' as in speed of autofocus, and 'quick' as in big apertures.
The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
Quite. The Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR is the way to go with a budget.The magic letters for quick autofocus are AF-S, as in the Nikon 70-300mm AF-S VR mentioned, which is probably the best performing option before you go into f2.8-land.
The other way out for the OP is to pre-focus, set to manual AF and wait for the car to reach the spot.
I've gone for the 70-200 2.8 G ED with the 1.7 tele - which equates to 340mm - but it's expensive, long and heavy. Great results though:
Almost a 100% crop at +/- 25 metres (click on it)
Few thoughts for you, not in any particular order:
AF 'performance' depends on a few things -
1) the a/f sensors in the body, in particular which ones you use
2) the amount of light getting to the AF system, as a function of
2a) the lens max aperture (this is why the 35mm is so snappy)
2b) the ambient light level
3) the speed with which the lens can be physically focussed (i.e. the motors)
F1 (and motorsport in general) is not very demanding as a focussing problem - it's all in the technique and the approach:
- stick with the cross sensors (usually the centre one unless you've got a very high end camera). Horizontal sensors pick up vertical lines, vertical ones horizontal. Cross ones are much more reliable
- seriously think about NOT using servo focus. Often causes more problems than it solves by doing things like picking up the catch fencing at the wrong time and racking the lens from one end of the focus range to the other. Even with a 300/2.8 that will miss the shot for you.
- with a fast (aperture) lens like a 2.8 you'll probably stop down anyway for some DOF (which is otherwise minimal). However, in my experience AF accuracy is a lot better (more light getting to the AF system)
- Practice, and know your camera.. pick on something else tricky to get used to it.
I generally find 'trap' focussing to be the best approach - pre-focus on a point, then simply follow the car and snap as it goes past that point. You can either do that by focussing and turning the camera / lens to M rather than M/A or AF (depending on the body), OR by setting focus to the AE-L button rather than a half-press. Probably needs some digging in the manual - I'm still on a D90.
ETA: (very) quick look at your shots suggests that they're fairly well focussed, but you may be pushing your luck a little on the shutter speed. 1/160th at 300mm requires steady hands, and still has some potential to show subject movement - probably slower than necessary.. Might be worth pushing the ISO a stop or so.
AF 'performance' depends on a few things -
1) the a/f sensors in the body, in particular which ones you use
2) the amount of light getting to the AF system, as a function of
2a) the lens max aperture (this is why the 35mm is so snappy)
2b) the ambient light level
3) the speed with which the lens can be physically focussed (i.e. the motors)
F1 (and motorsport in general) is not very demanding as a focussing problem - it's all in the technique and the approach:
- stick with the cross sensors (usually the centre one unless you've got a very high end camera). Horizontal sensors pick up vertical lines, vertical ones horizontal. Cross ones are much more reliable
- seriously think about NOT using servo focus. Often causes more problems than it solves by doing things like picking up the catch fencing at the wrong time and racking the lens from one end of the focus range to the other. Even with a 300/2.8 that will miss the shot for you.
- with a fast (aperture) lens like a 2.8 you'll probably stop down anyway for some DOF (which is otherwise minimal). However, in my experience AF accuracy is a lot better (more light getting to the AF system)
- Practice, and know your camera.. pick on something else tricky to get used to it.
I generally find 'trap' focussing to be the best approach - pre-focus on a point, then simply follow the car and snap as it goes past that point. You can either do that by focussing and turning the camera / lens to M rather than M/A or AF (depending on the body), OR by setting focus to the AE-L button rather than a half-press. Probably needs some digging in the manual - I'm still on a D90.
ETA: (very) quick look at your shots suggests that they're fairly well focussed, but you may be pushing your luck a little on the shutter speed. 1/160th at 300mm requires steady hands, and still has some potential to show subject movement - probably slower than necessary.. Might be worth pushing the ISO a stop or so.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 16th July 23:31
upsidedownmark said:
I generally find 'trap' focussing to be the best approach
IIRC there was a (real) trap focusing stunt you could pull with the Nikon D70 - there was a way you could set it up so that it fired automatically the moment the subject came into focus. In fact the D70 could also synch at 1/2000th and became popular for IR photography too.Yep.
Set focus to button (AEL - not shutter half press), then ensure you're in a focus priority mode (i.e. not servo AF) where it won't release the shutter until it locks focus - in AF-C it prioritises release and will fire even without focus. Now pre-focus using the AEL button, then mash the shutter button - it won't release as it's not locked, and you're not activating the focus. As soon as it locks anything within the focus zone it'll fire. Worked on the D70, D90, and probably most other bodies since. Perhaps even better if you've got a high end body where you can choose release / focus priority independent of focus mode.
Practically I've found it not that useful - if you were trying to pick birds out of an empty sky, perhaps, but for motor sport, it tends to find focus on the background / track.
Bottom line, there's not a lot of substitute for a brain behind the camera - it can anticipate, which is something none of the electronics have figured out yet
ETA: The old D70 was a CCD with a 'hybrid' shutter - because CCD's are 'different' (every pixel gets shifted to a transfer register and then scanned from there), you finish up effectively reading the whole chip at a time. Nikon stuck in a mechanical shutter that worked up to a certain speed, but didn't go faster than (IIRC) about 1/250th. Above that, the shutter still did 1/250th, and the chip dealt with switching off the exposure sooner for a faster exposure. That meant you always had a fully open shutter during the exposure - no second curtain chasing the first across, so you were basically limited by flash duration. CCD's don't suffer skew/jellies when videoing either. CMOS sensors are however more cost effective... and AFAIK all the recent bodies (inc my D90) are CMOS. They read a more conventional 'scan' pattern - line at a time, and need a conventional shutter. And suffer from skew..
Set focus to button (AEL - not shutter half press), then ensure you're in a focus priority mode (i.e. not servo AF) where it won't release the shutter until it locks focus - in AF-C it prioritises release and will fire even without focus. Now pre-focus using the AEL button, then mash the shutter button - it won't release as it's not locked, and you're not activating the focus. As soon as it locks anything within the focus zone it'll fire. Worked on the D70, D90, and probably most other bodies since. Perhaps even better if you've got a high end body where you can choose release / focus priority independent of focus mode.
Practically I've found it not that useful - if you were trying to pick birds out of an empty sky, perhaps, but for motor sport, it tends to find focus on the background / track.
Bottom line, there's not a lot of substitute for a brain behind the camera - it can anticipate, which is something none of the electronics have figured out yet
ETA: The old D70 was a CCD with a 'hybrid' shutter - because CCD's are 'different' (every pixel gets shifted to a transfer register and then scanned from there), you finish up effectively reading the whole chip at a time. Nikon stuck in a mechanical shutter that worked up to a certain speed, but didn't go faster than (IIRC) about 1/250th. Above that, the shutter still did 1/250th, and the chip dealt with switching off the exposure sooner for a faster exposure. That meant you always had a fully open shutter during the exposure - no second curtain chasing the first across, so you were basically limited by flash duration. CCD's don't suffer skew/jellies when videoing either. CMOS sensors are however more cost effective... and AFAIK all the recent bodies (inc my D90) are CMOS. They read a more conventional 'scan' pattern - line at a time, and need a conventional shutter. And suffer from skew..
Edited by upsidedownmark on Wednesday 17th July 01:39
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff