Discussion
A recent post has got me thinking 
that surely Lotus dealers, specialists, accessory companies, etc are well aware of specialised forums such as PH.
Therefore, I would have thought that they would monitor them occassionally if not only to see what general experiences
/problems
that the customers of the marquee(s) that they were selling were having, or even to see what their competitors were up to
!
This said and in the internet world of instant word of mouth, surely any company would strive for excellent standards to ensure both repeat customers and additional customers from recomendedations. Those that fell below standard would not last long.
Many years ago I had a mate who was a car salesman
and he used to brag when he had sealed a particularly good deal (i.e. He had used someones ignorance to make a much larger profit for himself & his dealership) or if he had promised litte extras in order to clinch a sale (Floor mats, full tank of petrol - I kid you not) with no intention of including them.
He did not seem to realise that although he may have got the sale or extra commission, he would unlikely have that customer returning or recommending the garage to friends (Lost future commission and servicing sales). I think this had something with him moving dealerships every 12 months
as his commissions declined.
Word of mouth obviously has a downside in that it can be used by competitors or people who feel agrieved
(either rightly or wrongly) to tarnish someones reputation or put others off them and I think thats why there are strict rules regarding this on most forums.
However, anyone can make mistakes
due to a variety of reasons (busy periods, staff shortages, hang-over incompetence 
) and they should be given a (1) chance
to address problems you experience with them as they may (or may not) be keen to rectify them or take you through the charges.
Rip off merchants, cowboys
and repeat offenders should be heavily publicised 
, but its the fine balance as it could be an honest mistake, someones misinterpretation or just anger at paying out money all of the time for a failing car.
To put this into context, when I bought my Elise it was brand new but had a number of scuffs and a couple of 'nicks' that I would not have expected on a new car. The dealership that I bought it from has a good reputation and although I am far from impressed with them at the moment I know a lot of other people are and I may have just been unlucky. It was too far away for me to take it back to them to resolve but my local Lotus Dealership (CN) were excellent when I took it to them to look at. This good experience made me book my service with them (and hopefully the loop repeats!)
So to summarise;
- Established Companies know that happy customers are the key to success
- Feedback, how can someone know where they have gone wrong if you don't tell them
- Anyone can make an (1) honest mistake.
- Rip-off merchants don't last long, although they may reappear under a different guise (another loop).
- Word of mouth is the key but should be used with caution / in context.
- I need something else to fill in the time when x-factor is on
Carl
that surely Lotus dealers, specialists, accessory companies, etc are well aware of specialised forums such as PH. Therefore, I would have thought that they would monitor them occassionally if not only to see what general experiences
/problems that the customers of the marquee(s) that they were selling were having, or even to see what their competitors were up to! This said and in the internet world of instant word of mouth, surely any company would strive for excellent standards to ensure both repeat customers and additional customers from recomendedations. Those that fell below standard would not last long.
Many years ago I had a mate who was a car salesman
and he used to brag when he had sealed a particularly good deal (i.e. He had used someones ignorance to make a much larger profit for himself & his dealership) or if he had promised litte extras in order to clinch a sale (Floor mats, full tank of petrol - I kid you not) with no intention of including them. He did not seem to realise that although he may have got the sale or extra commission, he would unlikely have that customer returning or recommending the garage to friends (Lost future commission and servicing sales). I think this had something with him moving dealerships every 12 months
as his commissions declined. Word of mouth obviously has a downside in that it can be used by competitors or people who feel agrieved
(either rightly or wrongly) to tarnish someones reputation or put others off them and I think thats why there are strict rules regarding this on most forums. However, anyone can make mistakes
due to a variety of reasons (busy periods, staff shortages, hang-over incompetence ) and they should be given a (1) chance to address problems you experience with them as they may (or may not) be keen to rectify them or take you through the charges. Rip off merchants, cowboys
and repeat offenders should be heavily publicised , but its the fine balance as it could be an honest mistake, someones misinterpretation or just anger at paying out money all of the time for a failing car. To put this into context, when I bought my Elise it was brand new but had a number of scuffs and a couple of 'nicks' that I would not have expected on a new car. The dealership that I bought it from has a good reputation and although I am far from impressed with them at the moment I know a lot of other people are and I may have just been unlucky. It was too far away for me to take it back to them to resolve but my local Lotus Dealership (CN) were excellent when I took it to them to look at. This good experience made me book my service with them (and hopefully the loop repeats!)
So to summarise;
- Established Companies know that happy customers are the key to success
- Feedback, how can someone know where they have gone wrong if you don't tell them
- Anyone can make an (1) honest mistake.
- Rip-off merchants don't last long, although they may reappear under a different guise (another loop).
- Word of mouth is the key but should be used with caution / in context.
- I need something else to fill in the time when x-factor is on
Carl
Good post. You're right, more dealers should monitor internet forums and -- more importantly -- take part in the discussions. I know of a couple of dealers and one specialist who regularly read and post on PH and SELOC. The aforementioned specialist gets all my servicing and maintenance work as a result of the excellent publicity they've received and the online advice they have given to people. As far as sharing warnings of bad experiences goes, that simply cannot happen on PH for the reasons discussed here (www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=123965&f=24&h=0). As Ted points out, there are bad customers as well as bad service providers. Furthermore, one person's experience and opinion of something can often radically differ to another person's experience and opinion.
great idea...but how many dealers/specialists can afford to employ someone full time to sit and surf the net all day ! 
...most can barely cope with the amount of email enquiries they get, and respond in a timely manner.
The other thing is pretty much the same as Bonce was saying - I use a very popular local specialist - 99.9% of the time everyone who goes there is more than happy with the service..but I have seen the odd one that isnt. Now if that one person can virtually ruin their business just by going on every internet forum and slating them...whether its true or not. There has to be some control on sites like these otherwise they could be liable to legal action etc.
Saying that there are a few sites that rate dealers and you can vote on them etc - seems like the best idea...otherwise carry on as normal with people asking for recommendations and others responfing with their experiences
...most can barely cope with the amount of email enquiries they get, and respond in a timely manner. The other thing is pretty much the same as Bonce was saying - I use a very popular local specialist - 99.9% of the time everyone who goes there is more than happy with the service..but I have seen the odd one that isnt. Now if that one person can virtually ruin their business just by going on every internet forum and slating them...whether its true or not. There has to be some control on sites like these otherwise they could be liable to legal action etc.
Saying that there are a few sites that rate dealers and you can vote on them etc - seems like the best idea...otherwise carry on as normal with people asking for recommendations and others responfing with their experiences
The service guy at CNs deffo reads this forum , because that is where he came across the comments of Eaton , and James from Lotus reads it because he phoned CNs to see if there was any truth behind what Eaton had alledged !!!!
I suspect the chagrin of Lotus and CNs is what caused the posting to be pulled.
Would like to be a fly on the wall at CNs when Eaton collects his car !!!
I suspect the chagrin of Lotus and CNs is what caused the posting to be pulled.
Would like to be a fly on the wall at CNs when Eaton collects his car !!!
Good topic,I reckon a lot of negative posting is born out of frustration.
I had trouble with my dealer and followed their complaints procedure and got nowhere, but by using forums found another dealer and have been happy since.
So,should i slate the original dealer or commend the new dealer.
I feel we should be able to voice our experiences good and bad and if it's deemed unfair let the offended party report the post and we take it from there!
I had trouble with my dealer and followed their complaints procedure and got nowhere, but by using forums found another dealer and have been happy since.
So,should i slate the original dealer or commend the new dealer.
I feel we should be able to voice our experiences good and bad and if it's deemed unfair let the offended party report the post and we take it from there!
I suppose a compromise would be to report bad service in fact only, i.e. do not post opinion but just the facts as they happened and let someone make up their mind themselves as to the severity of the situation and the remedy offered. This would obviously demand self disipline but any posts not sticking to the criteria can be pulled in much the same way as they are at the moment. So long as you stick to fact, then PH nor the contributor can be held liable under any liable/slander law. You could even take it one step further and inform the garage of the posting and let them have the right to reply. This may even encourage more to read the forums reguarly and look upon this as an opportunity to improve service levels. After all if no one says anything how do you know you need to change? Now lets all go and hug tree in our rose tinted world.
Interesting thread, my take on which is as follows...
1) IIRC Lotus dealerships (as with I guess all other brands) are franchised and as such pay for the right to carry the product. I believe a main dealership for Lotus pays in the region of £50k up front. So as a consumer, you'd be well advised to remember that just because it wears a certain badge, a main dealership doesn't necessarily guarantee better levels of service or quality than an independent. I think we all pretty much know that, and having had my car in at a main dealership, a leading specialist and a smaller but very well connected specialist I have my own opinions on who provides the better deal overall (quality of work, customer experience, customer service, technical experience etc.). As a result I now only use the specialists, simply because I think the overall package suits me better.
2) On the name and shame rule, I personally agree with Teds principles as they protect us all from the consequences of our sometimes, over-exuberant emotions.
My suggestion would be to take the same approach as employers, who under English Law (and I think perhaps Euro Law) are not allowed to say anything nasty about ex-employees when giving references... they can however decline to give a reference which is about as damning as you can get to a potential employer.
So my suggestion... only post about the good ones, that way we'll all get used to hearing about who the good dealers and good independents/specialists are and they'll get all our hard-earned cash. It'll also be an incentive for those who do read PH to ensure that they get on the "good guy" list.
Tim
1) IIRC Lotus dealerships (as with I guess all other brands) are franchised and as such pay for the right to carry the product. I believe a main dealership for Lotus pays in the region of £50k up front. So as a consumer, you'd be well advised to remember that just because it wears a certain badge, a main dealership doesn't necessarily guarantee better levels of service or quality than an independent. I think we all pretty much know that, and having had my car in at a main dealership, a leading specialist and a smaller but very well connected specialist I have my own opinions on who provides the better deal overall (quality of work, customer experience, customer service, technical experience etc.). As a result I now only use the specialists, simply because I think the overall package suits me better.
2) On the name and shame rule, I personally agree with Teds principles as they protect us all from the consequences of our sometimes, over-exuberant emotions.
My suggestion would be to take the same approach as employers, who under English Law (and I think perhaps Euro Law) are not allowed to say anything nasty about ex-employees when giving references... they can however decline to give a reference which is about as damning as you can get to a potential employer.
So my suggestion... only post about the good ones, that way we'll all get used to hearing about who the good dealers and good independents/specialists are and they'll get all our hard-earned cash. It'll also be an incentive for those who do read PH to ensure that they get on the "good guy" list.
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