How do I go about speccing a projector and screen?
Discussion
Staring at the lounge ceiling last night, or rather the lack thereof, I've begun wondering about slapping my Kuro back on the wall for normal telly, and then having a concealed motorised screen between the joists and using a projector...
How would I go about choosing a "decent" projector and suitable screen (and screen size)? Like tellies, there seems to be a variety of technologies and capabilities out there. I'd always planned on doing this for our new lounge, but that may yet be a couple of years away, so I thought I'd look at what I could do here and now.
Would something like this be decent without getting in to silly money, and shining on to this?
What ought I be looking at or for, and what should I be avoiding?
How would I go about choosing a "decent" projector and suitable screen (and screen size)? Like tellies, there seems to be a variety of technologies and capabilities out there. I'd always planned on doing this for our new lounge, but that may yet be a couple of years away, so I thought I'd look at what I could do here and now.
Would something like this be decent without getting in to silly money, and shining on to this?
What ought I be looking at or for, and what should I be avoiding?
Might not be a bad start, but you'd need to check to see how big an image that projector can produce from the distance you plan to install it. Here is a link to a calculator that should give a fair idea (but allow some 'wiggle room' just incase.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Probably best not to go quite so big anyway unless you plan to sit a very long way back. FWIW I sit 11-12' back from a 112" wide 2.35:1 screen (so 16:9 content is about 103" diagonal).
Bare in mind that much of a projected image's quality depends on the room: Not just how dark you can make it (that should be a given anyway), but if it has light walls and a white ceiling then you will get reflections back to the screen that wash the image out. The very best home cinema rooms have black walls and ceilings (often covered using material such as velvet) but that is a bit extreme in a typical living room so something in between might be a more realistic compromise.
There are special screens which help in light coloured rooms such as the Draper ReActII but that would cost around double the one you linked to. However, it is also tensioned so won't start to curl and wrinkle whereas the linked one will probably do this after a year or two so it's a bit of a false economy IMHO. You could buy a cheaper screen as a stop gap knowing this and save up for a better one perhaps...just don't expect a non tensioned screen to stay flat for ever. FWIW I've got a 5 year old tensioned screen that is still perfectly flat so it does work.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calcula...
Probably best not to go quite so big anyway unless you plan to sit a very long way back. FWIW I sit 11-12' back from a 112" wide 2.35:1 screen (so 16:9 content is about 103" diagonal).
Bare in mind that much of a projected image's quality depends on the room: Not just how dark you can make it (that should be a given anyway), but if it has light walls and a white ceiling then you will get reflections back to the screen that wash the image out. The very best home cinema rooms have black walls and ceilings (often covered using material such as velvet) but that is a bit extreme in a typical living room so something in between might be a more realistic compromise.
There are special screens which help in light coloured rooms such as the Draper ReActII but that would cost around double the one you linked to. However, it is also tensioned so won't start to curl and wrinkle whereas the linked one will probably do this after a year or two so it's a bit of a false economy IMHO. You could buy a cheaper screen as a stop gap knowing this and save up for a better one perhaps...just don't expect a non tensioned screen to stay flat for ever. FWIW I've got a 5 year old tensioned screen that is still perfectly flat so it does work.
Brilliant, useful stuff chap, thank you.
The light thing had already occurred, and was certainly going to be part of the design for the new lounge. As it is, wife has decreed that much of this current lounge will be grey for some reason, no idea why, but it'll help to a degree!
Right, that page brings up all sorts of numbers I don't understand, but it's a good starting place:
The sliders don't seem to move very far, throw distance doesn't go beyond 4.8m before screen size hits the 130" bumpstops. The lounge is about 7m long, give or take, so assuming projector sharp end was proud of the wall, and likewise the screen was a joist away from the wall to allow space for the Kuro behind it, it'd still be 6.5m between the two.... so does that mean the Epson isn't up to the job, or that it'll be fine?!
The light thing had already occurred, and was certainly going to be part of the design for the new lounge. As it is, wife has decreed that much of this current lounge will be grey for some reason, no idea why, but it'll help to a degree!
Right, that page brings up all sorts of numbers I don't understand, but it's a good starting place:
The sliders don't seem to move very far, throw distance doesn't go beyond 4.8m before screen size hits the 130" bumpstops. The lounge is about 7m long, give or take, so assuming projector sharp end was proud of the wall, and likewise the screen was a joist away from the wall to allow space for the Kuro behind it, it'd still be 6.5m between the two.... so does that mean the Epson isn't up to the job, or that it'll be fine?!
Not sure if I used the same model as you, but you can adjust the zoom control (if you set the button to 'diagonal range' rather than 'throw range'.
For the Epson HD8100 I get a minimum screen size of 103" diagonal at a 6.5 metre throw. Note that the brightness figure shows 11fL for this set up with a 1.0 gain screen. This is a bit on the low side as you need to allow for the lamp to dim which they tend to drop 10-20% in the first 100 hours or so before stabilising. Typically aim for around 15fL (or a little over to allow for dimming), so in this case a screen gain of 1.5 should do it.
Long throws like yours (and mine) tend to give less brightness, but we benefit by getting more contrast due to the way most projector lenses work in terms of aperture. It also tends to give a sharper image as the less you zoom then this means you use a smaller area of the lens (less chance of distortions).
FWIW I run a 6.0 metre throw at minimum zoom for my JVC X35 onto a 1.5 gain screen and I've measured 15fL (I can adjust a setting in the projector that controls the light output) which I find a nice level that still gives good blacks on the dark scenes. I have plenty of adjustment left (aperture) without having to use the noisier high lamp mode.
For the Epson HD8100 I get a minimum screen size of 103" diagonal at a 6.5 metre throw. Note that the brightness figure shows 11fL for this set up with a 1.0 gain screen. This is a bit on the low side as you need to allow for the lamp to dim which they tend to drop 10-20% in the first 100 hours or so before stabilising. Typically aim for around 15fL (or a little over to allow for dimming), so in this case a screen gain of 1.5 should do it.
Long throws like yours (and mine) tend to give less brightness, but we benefit by getting more contrast due to the way most projector lenses work in terms of aperture. It also tends to give a sharper image as the less you zoom then this means you use a smaller area of the lens (less chance of distortions).
FWIW I run a 6.0 metre throw at minimum zoom for my JVC X35 onto a 1.5 gain screen and I've measured 15fL (I can adjust a setting in the projector that controls the light output) which I find a nice level that still gives good blacks on the dark scenes. I have plenty of adjustment left (aperture) without having to use the noisier high lamp mode.
Hello,
Some really good advice already on here. I've used projectors for the last 18 years, starting out with a big ole 3 tube unit from Vidikron and then moving to digital LCD projectors before ending up with my current Sony HW30 1080p SXRD monster which is ridiculously good for the money.
The projector central tool is brilliant, my advice would be to avoid being at either end of the spectrum, as optics tend not to work at their best when operating at minimum or maximum throw, I would suggest avoiding using the lens at either the bottom or top 10% or it's range for best picture quality.
I would be tempted to see if I could take a look at the Sony VPL-HW15 SXRD projector which is a similar price to the Epson. I tend to find DLP to give a slight 'video' quality to the image whereas the JVC DiLA and Sony SXRD give a smoother, more film like appearance. I'd also consider stretching my budget to a JVC X-35 which is another projector which delivers superb images for the money.
Don't skimp on the screen, the Sapphire you're considering is a great entry level screen and a good starting point. I've seen too many good projectors compromised by people trying to project an image onto a white wall and being unhappy with the results.
Hope this helps.
Dave
Some really good advice already on here. I've used projectors for the last 18 years, starting out with a big ole 3 tube unit from Vidikron and then moving to digital LCD projectors before ending up with my current Sony HW30 1080p SXRD monster which is ridiculously good for the money.
The projector central tool is brilliant, my advice would be to avoid being at either end of the spectrum, as optics tend not to work at their best when operating at minimum or maximum throw, I would suggest avoiding using the lens at either the bottom or top 10% or it's range for best picture quality.
I would be tempted to see if I could take a look at the Sony VPL-HW15 SXRD projector which is a similar price to the Epson. I tend to find DLP to give a slight 'video' quality to the image whereas the JVC DiLA and Sony SXRD give a smoother, more film like appearance. I'd also consider stretching my budget to a JVC X-35 which is another projector which delivers superb images for the money.
Don't skimp on the screen, the Sapphire you're considering is a great entry level screen and a good starting point. I've seen too many good projectors compromised by people trying to project an image onto a white wall and being unhappy with the results.
Hope this helps.
Dave
videoaddict said:
Hello,
Some really good advice already on here. I've used projectors for the last 18 years, starting out with a big ole 3 tube unit from Vidikron and then moving to digital LCD projectors before ending up with my current Sony HW30 1080p SXRD monster which is ridiculously good for the money.
The projector central tool is brilliant, my advice would be to avoid being at either end of the spectrum, as optics tend not to work at their best when operating at minimum or maximum throw, I would suggest avoiding using the lens at either the bottom or top 10% or it's range for best picture quality.
I would be tempted to see if I could take a look at the Sony VPL-HW15 SXRD projector which is a similar price to the Epson. I tend to find DLP to give a slight 'video' quality to the image whereas the JVC DiLA and Sony SXRD give a smoother, more film like appearance. I'd also consider stretching my budget to a JVC X-35 which is another projector which delivers superb images for the money.
Don't skimp on the screen, the Sapphire you're considering is a great entry level screen and a good starting point. I've seen too many good projectors compromised by people trying to project an image onto a white wall and being unhappy with the results.
Hope this helps.
Dave
Re the DLP projectors, make sure if you can to get a demo, because about 25% of people will see the dreadedSome really good advice already on here. I've used projectors for the last 18 years, starting out with a big ole 3 tube unit from Vidikron and then moving to digital LCD projectors before ending up with my current Sony HW30 1080p SXRD monster which is ridiculously good for the money.
The projector central tool is brilliant, my advice would be to avoid being at either end of the spectrum, as optics tend not to work at their best when operating at minimum or maximum throw, I would suggest avoiding using the lens at either the bottom or top 10% or it's range for best picture quality.
I would be tempted to see if I could take a look at the Sony VPL-HW15 SXRD projector which is a similar price to the Epson. I tend to find DLP to give a slight 'video' quality to the image whereas the JVC DiLA and Sony SXRD give a smoother, more film like appearance. I'd also consider stretching my budget to a JVC X-35 which is another projector which delivers superb images for the money.
Don't skimp on the screen, the Sapphire you're considering is a great entry level screen and a good starting point. I've seen too many good projectors compromised by people trying to project an image onto a white wall and being unhappy with the results.
Hope this helps.
Dave
"rainbow effect" where you get a colour flashing across the screen at times, it can be like a migrane attack
I suffer dreadfully from it so went for an LCD design in the end..
tdm34 said:
Re the DLP projectors, make sure if you can to get a demo, because about 25% of people will see the dreaded
"rainbow effect" where you get a colour flashing across the screen at times, it can be like a migrane attack
I suffer dreadfully from it so went for an LCD design in the end..
Ah interesting - years back, I nearly bought a DLP back projection telly but couldn't stand the wibbly rainbows so picked a Sony 3LCD one instead. That may well rule that option out then."rainbow effect" where you get a colour flashing across the screen at times, it can be like a migrane attack
I suffer dreadfully from it so went for an LCD design in the end..
Hello,
Best wishes,
Dave
tdm34 said:
Re the DLP projectors, make sure if you can to get a demo, because about 25% of people will see the dreaded
"rainbow effect" where you get a colour flashing across the screen at times, it can be like a migrane attack
I suffer dreadfully from it so went for an LCD design in the end..
Yes, I'm in that 25%, though I don't suffer quite this badly. It seems to depend on the speed of the colour wheel, but even with 3 chip projectors, which don't have the colour wheel, DLP still doesn't look like film, there is a certain artificiality about it's presentation, hence my slight leaning towards the alternative technologies of DiLA and SXRD. I do have to admit, however, that some of the very high end DLP based projectors from DPI and Barco, which are essentially scaled down commercial cinema projectors, are supposed to be capable of truly amazing picture quality, it's just a pity they are so far outside of the price range of anyone I know that I've not yet managed to see one of these beasts in operation."rainbow effect" where you get a colour flashing across the screen at times, it can be like a migrane attack
I suffer dreadfully from it so went for an LCD design in the end..
Best wishes,
Dave
If you do decide on Epson, pay attention to the physical size.
I bought my first projector last week - Epson TW3200. Cheaper than I would normally go for Hi-fi / AV type stuff but I figured it would be a good trial for a year or so and if I got on with projecting, I'll upgrade in a year or so. Very impressed with it and can certainly see the upgrade happening - but it is BIG! I knew it was pretty big - but didn't quite realise how much. My intention was to mount it on the ceiling as a short term solution - then changing so that it would raise into the ceiling. But I don't currently have that option - it's too deep to fit between my joists!
Projector is about 9' from the screen and happily projects on to a 72" diagonal screen (and could be bigger if I could fit a bigger screen in).
I bought my first projector last week - Epson TW3200. Cheaper than I would normally go for Hi-fi / AV type stuff but I figured it would be a good trial for a year or so and if I got on with projecting, I'll upgrade in a year or so. Very impressed with it and can certainly see the upgrade happening - but it is BIG! I knew it was pretty big - but didn't quite realise how much. My intention was to mount it on the ceiling as a short term solution - then changing so that it would raise into the ceiling. But I don't currently have that option - it's too deep to fit between my joists!
Projector is about 9' from the screen and happily projects on to a 72" diagonal screen (and could be bigger if I could fit a bigger screen in).
Thanks, that's a useful consideration. I'd like to put it right up against the back wall, rather than have it hanging down in the middle of the room, so wasn't going to try to jam it between the joists - in all, the whole exercise is a placeholder for a couple of years until the new lounge is built, hence wanting something "good" but not *that* good to tide me over until I can go to town on speccing the "proper" one.
With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
RedLeicester said:
Thanks, that's a useful consideration. I'd like to put it right up against the back wall, rather than have it hanging down in the middle of the room, so wasn't going to try to jam it between the joists - in all, the whole exercise is a placeholder for a couple of years until the new lounge is built, hence wanting something "good" but not *that* good to tide me over until I can go to town on speccing the "proper" one.
With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
I went for a cheap screen - motorised and only £75 from Amazon. It's my only reference, but seems fine - although I'm sure more money would get a better screen. Whether it will suffer problems in a year or so from curling I don't know - it's only been up since Friday!With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
It sounds like you're going down a similar route I did - something decent for now, but not too OTT because you'll get the "proper" stuff later. Although it was a fairly impulse buy, the Epson seemed to get very good reviews for the cost (pretty much considered the best you'll get for that kind of money) and my mate has an Epson too (can't remember the model) which he's been happy with. I bought the projector, screen, ceiling mount, 15m HDMI cable and amplified HDMI splitter - and still had change from £1k (not much change though to be fair!). Seemed like a pretty good introduction to the projector world and I'm pretty impressed with the result.
RedLeicester said:
Thanks, that's a useful consideration. I'd like to put it right up against the back wall, rather than have it hanging down in the middle of the room, so wasn't going to try to jam it between the joists - in all, the whole exercise is a placeholder for a couple of years until the new lounge is built, hence wanting something "good" but not *that* good to tide me over until I can go to town on speccing the "proper" one.
With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
I've run four different projectors like this, just at the back of the room: Initially, just on a shelf in a bookcase, then the JVC was too big for the shelf, so I put it on top of the bookcase (it just about fit). Last December I upgraded to the later JVC X35 (which was even bigger than my older HD350) and I fabricated my own 'floating shelf' to put it on (partly so we could swap the room around a bit and move a sideboard to the back of the room. With that in mind, will one of those cheaper screens do, or is this whole curling thing really that much of an issue?
I think it's reasonably subtle, but it's still a pretty big projector, but I've made the installation as neat as I could and I'm going to add an LED down lighter in the underside of the shelf to light up the OH's 'precious' Venetian plate underneath it.
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