Privately owned ex-military jets
Discussion
Voldemort said:
I was told that there's a phantom in private ownership parked at Duxford but that they are not allowed to fly it as it is still 'too modern'.
Can anyone confirm/elaborate?
If I become richer than reality what is the fastest, most modern ex-mil jet I could buy and then fly in the UK?
I gather the RAF are going to be selling off the Sentinels before too long - take off the luggage carriers and you've got a Global Express. Ticks the fast and modern boxes, but probably not what you've got in mind.Can anyone confirm/elaborate?
If I become richer than reality what is the fastest, most modern ex-mil jet I could buy and then fly in the UK?
If you want something that used to be front-line, then apart from the odd Sea Vixen or Vulcan, the CAA balks at anything newer than your Grandmother's Hunter. The most modern training airframes you could operate are probably the Hawk or an L-39.
But seriously, if you need to dispose of that much cash then you'd probably have more fun taking 80% of it into the back garden, covering it in avgas and setting fire to it - and spend the rest on an SBach/Extra/Yak/Pitts and lots of coke and hookers.
eharding said:
But seriously, if you need to dispose of that much cash then you'd probably have more fun taking 80% of it into the back garden, covering it in avgas and setting fire to it - and spend the rest on an SBach/Extra/Yak/Pitts and lots of coke and hookers.
... and make sure you don't waste any on anything else!Alternatively, for £10000 you can do this....
JW911 said:
eharding said:
But seriously, if you need to dispose of that much cash then you'd probably have more fun taking 80% of it into the back garden, covering it in avgas and setting fire to it - and spend the rest on an SBach/Extra/Yak/Pitts and lots of coke and hookers.
... and make sure you don't waste any on anything else!Alternatively, for £10000 you can do this....
Poor old Ken in the front, unable to understand the riot-act being read to them in Russian over the radio thought this was wonderful, and wanted to stay and play with the Mig - GE in the back understood exactly what was being said, and had to explain to Ken quite how badly wrong things were going to go if they didn't land immediately, if not sooner.
mph1977 said:
they were a UOR purchase ...
So are they just leased then?If not, and they were bought, it makes little sense to sell them off - doubtless at a substantial loss- when the general concensus seems to be that even after we leave Afghanistan they remain operationally useful.
UOR = urgent operational requirement
means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
Edited by mph1977 on Saturday 27th July 10:59
eharding said:
If you want something that used to be front-line, then apart from the odd Sea Vixen or Vulcan, the CAA balks at anything newer than your Grandmother's Hunter. The most modern training airframes you could operate are probably the Hawk or an L-39.
Why do the CAA object? Assuming the planes are unarmed, is their objection to the speed of these things? mph1977 said:
UOR = urgent operational requirement
means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
OK Now explain P+D and AAR.means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
Edited by mph1977 on Saturday 27th July 10:59
Can't you military or industry chaps NOT talk in initials?
This is a general forum - populated by people like me who have a genuine interest in the topics being discussed, But the use of in-house jargon is a real turn off - and actually quite rude as it serves to exclude those of us who aren't up to speed on these acronyms.
My clients would not appreciate me talking to them in "accounting" or "tax speak" - of which there is plenty.
Voldemort said:
eharding said:
If you want something that used to be front-line, then apart from the odd Sea Vixen or Vulcan, the CAA balks at anything newer than your Grandmother's Hunter. The most modern training airframes you could operate are probably the Hawk or an L-39.
Why do the CAA object? Assuming the planes are unarmed, is their objection to the speed of these things? Eric Mc said:
mph1977 said:
UOR = urgent operational requirement
means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
OK Now explain P+D and AAR.means they don't have the full logistics and support package etc - sometimes they are commercial off the shelf stuff and not fully adapted to UK systems and norms or subject to minimal UKisation ( e.g. while the C17 and Rivet Joint aren't UORs - E.G. the fact they can only boom refuel is a sign of their original status as leased planes (C17) and a quick procurement with minimal UKisation (Rivet Joint)- where the D model Sentry purchase in the 80/90s included fitting them with booms for P+D AAR) and the apache purchase is a bespokely British model - partially marinised ,UK spec sub systems, Different engines ( common with Merlin with the beneficial side effect of better hot and high). That said some UORs have been taken into core equipment.
Edited by mph1977 on Saturday 27th July 10:59
Can't you military or industry chaps NOT talk in initials?
This is a general forum - populated by people like me who have a genuine interest in the topics being discussed, But the use of in-house jargon is a real turn off - and actually quite rude as it serves to exclude those of us who aren't up to speed on these acronyms.
My clients would not appreciate me talking to them in "accounting" or "tax speak" - of which there is plenty.
AAR = air to air refuelling
there are fundamentally 2 types of system
- 'flying boom' which is what the US Air Force use and by extension many of the operators of aircraft designed originally for the USAF - this has potentially faster fuel transfer but the tankers are generally only single point
or
'probe and drogue' which is what the RAF, US Navy etc use and although it has a lower theoretical flow rate you can have 2 or 3 point refuelling and can refuel 2 small(er) aircraft at once ... there is a retractable hose with a 'drogue' on the end which the reciever flys his 'probe' into
it is possible to have tankers which have both a flying boom on the centreline and one or two hose units for Probe and drogue on the wings
mph1977 said:
- 'flying boom' which is what the US Air Force use and by extension many of the operators of aircraft designed originally for the USAF - this has potentially faster fuel transfer but the tankers are generally only single point
Bit OT but the flying boom does give opportunities for some great pics and videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28B19QvDQE
Sentinel was planned to be binned at the end of 2015 as part of the SDSR slash and burn. Primarily because, as mph said, it was bought under a UOR for the Afghan campaign. Additionally if it's not directly supporting the Pongoes then the RAF don't need it - after all they've got all those nice shiny useless Typhoon thingies. 
However, after Cameron got us involved in Libya, he and his merry men found out just how useful an intelligence gatherer it really is.
The a/c was subsequently recently detached to Mali to support the French operations there.
So it looks like there has been a re-think about Sentinel and that it may well be kept post 2015.
However, after Cameron got us involved in Libya, he and his merry men found out just how useful an intelligence gatherer it really is.
The a/c was subsequently recently detached to Mali to support the French operations there.
So it looks like there has been a re-think about Sentinel and that it may well be kept post 2015.
mph1977 said:
.... never refer to P38s ( yes i know they are now obsolete)
I know but God they're good....Voldemort said:
I was told that there's a phantom in private ownership parked at Duxford but that they are not allowed to fly it as it is still 'too modern'.
If by the term 'modern' you mean it would be almost certainley classified in the 'complex' category by the CAA, then yes it's not allowed to fly because it's too 'modern'.It's also not in private ownership either as it now belongs to the IWM. It was originally in private ownership.
RobGT81 said:
mph1977 said:
- 'flying boom' which is what the US Air Force use and by extension many of the operators of aircraft designed originally for the USAF - this has potentially faster fuel transfer but the tankers are generally only single point
Bit OT but the flying boom does give opportunities for some great pics and videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M28B19QvDQE
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff