Respray or smart repair?

[Matt99man]

I've heard wonders about smart repairs but do you think this is too far gone for that? What should I be paying for a bumper respray, I've been quoted just shy of £300 and that seems a lot!

[jds32]

Depends on what they are doing for £300. If they are removing the bumper then stripping the lights etc from it. Then stripping the old paint from it which it really needs and starting again from scratch repriming the full bumper flatting down then painting £300 won't be far of the mark tbh.

I would be more concerned about why its coming off in large pieces like that. That tends to happen when a new bumper has been fitted at some point and whoever has painted it hasn't prepped it properly

[Squiggs]

What he said ^^^^^
Original paint doesn't come off in lumps - so there's no point getting a couple of areas done only to find that those repaired areas last longer than the rest.

[Refined Detail]

As above really! For the paint to fail like that in the first place, it's a sign that it's almost definitely had a poor repair / respray in the past. Get the full bumper resprayed.

£300 isn't a completely unfair price from a reputable bodyshop tbh. I'd expect anywhere between £200-300 for a bumper really.

[Matt99man]

Squiggs said:

What he said ^^^^^
Original paint doesn't come off in lumps - so there's no point getting a couple of areas done only to find that those repaired areas last longer than the rest.

The blisters started off as bad stone chips that have grown, I didn't notice them until after it had been jet washed many times. Originally only 15/20mm in diameter. Can anyone recommend a decent body shop in stoke? I think I can have it done at a bmw dealer for £300, you would hope they would do a good job!

[V8covin]

you could get it done for half the price quoted in S-O-T but if BMW have quoted you under £300 to respray it why not use them ?

[Squiggs]

V8covin said:

you could get it done for half the price quoted in S-O-T but if BMW have quoted you under £300 to respray it why not use them ?

A half price job is probably what has caused the problems in the first place ....

I'm guessing the bumper's had a cheap respray - the prep wasn't carried out properly and/or cheap or incorrect products/procedures were used to cut down on costs.
Then a stone has broken through the lacquer and the paint and due to the insufficient/inappropriate prep/products/procedures there's a lack of adhesion and it's started to lift and then flake - finally aided by a jet wash.

There are many 'properly' repaired/resprayed bumpers that then get chipped but the paint stays intact - even when jet washed.

I'm affraid it looks like a prime example of 'buy cheap - pay twice'.

[V8covin]

Squiggs said:

A half price job is probably what has caused the problems in the first place ....

I'm guessing the bumper's had a cheap respray - the prep wasn't carried out properly and/or cheap or incorrect products/procedures were used to cut down on costs.
Then a stone has broken through the lacquer and the paint and due to the insufficient/inappropriate prep/products/procedures there's a lack of adhesion and it's started to lift and then flake - finally aided by a jet wash.

There are many 'properly' repaired/resprayed bumpers that then get chipped but the paint stays intact - even when jet washed.

I'm affraid it looks like a prime example of 'buy cheap - pay twice'.

You don't know what you're talking about mate.
This part of the country,Stoke-on-Trent/North Staffs is very cheap for body repairs compared to most other parts of the country,especially when compared to down south.
£150 is not a cheap bumper job up here,it's the going rate.A cheap job would be £80 and some shops do charge as little as that.
For sure you can pay more like the Op has said,he's been quoted £300......a £150 job might be a cowboy job in your part of the world but up here it's the norm.


just to add,that's because the costs involved,business overheads,material costs and wages are all a lot lower here than many other parts of the country

Edited by V8covin on Monday 29th July 20:44

[Squiggs]

V8covin said:

Squiggs said:

A half price job is probably what has caused the problems in the first place ....

I'm guessing the bumper's had a cheap respray - the prep wasn't carried out properly and/or cheap or incorrect products/procedures were used to cut down on costs.
Then a stone has broken through the lacquer and the paint and due to the insufficient/inappropriate prep/products/procedures there's a lack of adhesion and it's started to lift and then flake - finally aided by a jet wash.

There are many 'properly' repaired/resprayed bumpers that then get chipped but the paint stays intact - even when jet washed.

I'm affraid it looks like a prime example of 'buy cheap - pay twice'.

You don't know what you're talking about mate.
This part of the country,Stoke-on-Trent/North Staffs is very cheap for body repairs compared to most other parts of the country,especially when compared to down south.
£150 is not a cheap bumper job up here,it's the going rate.A cheap job would be £80 and some shops do charge as little as that.
For sure you can pay more like the Op has said,he's been quoted £300......a £150 job might be a cowboy job in your part of the world but up here it's the norm.

Ahm ... it's not like I just walked into this trade and don't know anybody that can carry out a decent repair north of the Watford gap

Materials cost the same no matter where you are in the country - fact!
So that only leaves a few ways a business in this trade can turn out jobs for less:
By using cheap products that don't perform/last.
Or
By cutting down on the time spent on the job by missing out steps/stages which will ultimately result in a poor job that's likely to fail.
Or
By living on nothing but bread and water.

I have personal friends in the trade in your part of the country, and many that are a lot further North than you.
Without exception they all charge more (in some cases a lot more!) than you have stated - because they know it covers the cost of decent materials and the required amount of hours needed to turn out a lasting job.
As they all turn out good lasting work (unsurprisingly) their businesses are all busy - and none of them are having to survive on bread and water.

[Matt99man]

V8covin said:

You don't know what you're talking about mate.
This part of the country,Stoke-on-Trent/North Staffs is very cheap for body repairs compared to most other parts of the country,especially when compared to down south.
£150 is not a cheap bumper job up here,it's the going rate.A cheap job would be £80 and some shops do charge as little as that.
For sure you can pay more like the Op has said,he's been quoted £300......a £150 job might be a cowboy job in your part of the world but up here it's the norm.


just to add,that's because the costs involved,business overheads,material costs and wages are all a lot lower here than many other parts of the country

Edited by V8covin on Monday 29th July 20:44

Any places you would recommend?

[V8covin]

Squiggs said:

Ahm ... it's not like I just walked into this trade and don't know anybody that can carry out a decent repair north of the Watford gap

Materials cost the same no matter where you are in the country - fact!
So that only leaves a few ways a business in this trade can turn out jobs for less:
By using cheap products that don't perform/last.
Or
By cutting down on the time spent on the job by missing out steps/stages which will ultimately result in a poor job that's likely to fail.
Or
By living on nothing but bread and water.

I have personal friends in the trade in your part of the country, and many that are a lot further North than you.
Without exception they all charge more (in some cases a lot more!) than you have stated - because they know it covers the cost of decent materials and the required amount of hours needed to turn out a lasting job.
As they all turn out good lasting work (unsurprisingly) their businesses are all busy - and none of them are having to survive on bread and water.

You want to talk facts ?
Wages are lower here than most other parts of the country.FACT !
Business rent/rates are lower here than many other parts of the country.Fact !
Material prices are negotiable.
If you know this area like you say you will know S-O-T is unlike many other areas.There are only a couple of large independent bodyshops outside of the main dealers.....and not all main dealers have their own bodyshops,Mercedes being a prime example.
Heck I used to be the approved repairer for the local Seat dealer at one time because they didn't have their own shop.

Expensive does not always equal quality work and likewise cheaper not does always mean bodge !

[V8covin]

Matt99man said:

Any places you would recommend?

I think you're always better off with a personal recommendation from a friend/relative/colleague in cases like this than strangers on an internet site mate

[Matt99man]

V8covin said:

I think you're always better off with a personal recommendation from a friend/relative/colleague in cases like this than strangers on an internet site mate

Good idea, I'll put the feelers out. Thanks mate

[Squiggs]

V8covin said:

You want to talk facts ?
Wages are lower here than most other parts of the country.FACT !
Business rent/rates are lower here than many other parts of the country.Fact !
Material prices are negotiable.
If you know this area like you say you will know S-O-T is unlike many other areas.There are only a couple of large independent bodyshops outside of the main dealers.....and not all main dealers have their own bodyshops,Mercedes being a prime example.
Heck I used to be the approved repairer for the local Seat dealer at one time because they didn't have their own shop.

Expensive does not always equal quality work and likewise cheaper not does always mean bodge !

I do agree that you can get a bad expensive job and a good inexpensive job .... but the rest of what you've said is (with respect) utter rubbish.

If the cost of living and running a business in S-O-T is really as low as you make it out to be and a decent bodyshop can really afford to turn out decent jobs at half 'the southern' price - then a really good full respray that might cost lets say £5k in 'The South' could be got in S-O-T for just £2.5k.
If that were true people from 'The South' would be shipping their cars into S-O-T or driving up and getting a taxi home and then a taxi back again to save themselves a couple of grand on a decent respray - even bodyshops from 'down South' could make money by taking their jobs to S-O-T to be done.
But none of that's happening, even when us cash rich Suvverners enjoy a bargain! Funny that.

[kds keltec]

Squiggs said:

I do agree that you can get a bad expensive job and a good inexpensive job .... but the rest of what you've said is (with respect) utter rubbish.

If the cost of living and running a business in S-O-T is really as low as you make it out to be and a decent bodyshop can really afford to turn out decent jobs at half 'the southern' price - then a really good full respray that might cost lets say £5k in 'The South' could be got in S-O-T for just £2.5k.
If that were true people from 'The South' would be shipping their cars into S-O-T or driving up and getting a taxi home and then a taxi back again to save themselves a couple of grand on a decent respray - even bodyshops from 'down South' could make money by taking their jobs to S-O-T to be done.
But none of that's happening, even when us cash rich Suvverners enjoy a bargain! Funny that.

interesting subject.

I have seen a big differences between north and south with costs.

If you include detailing a car paint trade then i can give some in sight into costs.

using a person or company thats operates from a unit, then one of the biggest out goings will be his rent and rates.

so to explain , you may or may not know that i have trained many pupils over last 2 years, and while spending 3-5 days with these guys we get to talk about all aspects of business including money, and then i keep in contact with some of the pupils on a regular basis.

If i was to say that some of these pupils NOT in the south have found units that are twice the size for third the outgoings per month, thats 6 times cheaper.

I pay £5000 per year on rates and then to find out that those same pupils with 6 time less rent are NOT paying any rates as a bonus from the local council to bump start business.

I had a very nice chap from midlands who works for paint protection film company install a film to one of my customers cars again when we got chatting his 3 bed home would JUST about get you a 1 bed bedsit in my area.

If i could pay my staff less due to location and living costs and then pay much less for my biggest out goings there is then i could and would lower my prices to suit.

The ONLY time i get customers travel from north to south is when money is no object and after a very bespoke service that very few cater for.

OH BTW back onto paint and for the OP, if i was buy in the paint , remove the bumper , strip back the old poor paint , prep and paint the bumper , bake , and re-fit than i could only break even on a £300 job.

edit to say , not sure if its all north south devide thou.

next door(my father place) they had big internal building changes , which meant using building contractors.
The builders come from west sussex (they were cheaper than local builders), all i kept hearing was you guys have too much money in this area and everything costs a fortune round here.

So i guess it pockets of areas that can be very different.

I travelled twice to reading area to work at a dealership that public walking in and asking what we were doing to the new lambo ,and how surprised the public were that our costs were so cheap ?????? i could of booked many there and then if i worked in that location.

But i struggle to charge the same for my local customers.


Location location location.




Kelly

Edited by kds keltec on Wednesday 31st July 09:51

[V8covin]

Some good points by both of you.
The idea of shipping cars up north for bodywork is something I've considered in the past.If I had a contact in say London for example,I'm sure everyone involved would make a good living,in theory,but there's also a lot of hassles involved.
Incidentally I do have a customer bringing her car up from London shortly but this is an exception rather than the rule.

The rates/rent thing is exactly as I thought,we haven't paid any business rates for the last few years thanks to the local authority exemptions....it all helps to keep costs down

[Squiggs]

I appoigise to the OP by being off topic (I did try and help out earlier.)

Kelly - I agree that premises costs may be lower in some parts of the country - but I'm sure the savings wouldn't equate to being able to do comparable jobs for half the price.

Years ago I was in a job where goods were shipped down from up't'north and most of the delivery drivers came from Barrow-in-Furness. They were genuinely embarrassed to tell us the cost of housing up there. At the time they could've bought a mansion for the same price as a one bed flat in central Essex.
But there was also a flip side - they found that when looking at quality used cars significant savings could be made by buying them from 'Down South'.

But as already mentioned I don't think it's a pure North/South divide thing.
When I was younger and wanted to get my foot on the property ladder I couldn't afford a used dog kennel in my hometown - but I managed to get a new two bed flat just 15 miles down the road.