Value of Cat C GTO-3R / no history / crashed & repaired
Discussion
Hi all,
I wanted to stimulate some discussion about what “seasoned” Noble owners think of Cat C cars or cars with total lack of history, cars that have been crashed but then carefully repaired. I know a couple of cars were serious shunts and iffy welding so we all know what we think about those...
It’s a vague topic but I thought it would be useful discussion about market values and especially people’s personal experiences. Have you bought an M12 which was a nail? What happened? How much money did you lose on resale? Has anybody bought one of those cars for £6-12k that have been badly crashed and have you successfully put it back on the road or created a race car? Is the new keeper safe in it, does it veer to one side due to the toe change on the rear wheel when it hits a bump?
I was thinking what is a point at which these cars become interesting to modify. Sure, the money spent is literally wasted upon resale but at least one does not spoil a car in original condition with lots of history and perhaps you get to make a car to TurboHoses level, provided you modify the gearbox to take the extra torque.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
The Titanium GTO-3R for sale cheap at the moment (link above) is not only Cat C (well repaired according to the owner) but lacks any history! I think anybody purchasing it even at £18k has questionable judgement. The specialists I occasionally speak to were advising that such “combo” of Cat C and no history is a big question mark in Noble-land unless somebody wants to own something that they will never sell (we all think that...). If a good car is £27k, would you trust the car be sellable in future knocking off just £8k?
I see some Nobles floating about for a long time. For example I liked one on Autotrader which is white with carbon. I thought the carbon vinyl wrap could be removed. However when I found out the white was ALSO a vinyl wrap (initially I thought it was a respray) I soon wondered that once the vinyl is peeled off, the paintwork underneath could need various TLC depending on the effects of the glue, sun heat etc. An M12 looks nice in white in my opinion but who in their right mind would vinyl wrap a Noble? Anybody vinyl wrapped theirs and then successfully removed the vinyl? I'd only trust that on a metal bodied car such as a GTR, I'd personally never do it on cars that can have blisters such as Noble or TVR...
Hope you’ve got some opinions and stories. Thanks
I wanted to stimulate some discussion about what “seasoned” Noble owners think of Cat C cars or cars with total lack of history, cars that have been crashed but then carefully repaired. I know a couple of cars were serious shunts and iffy welding so we all know what we think about those...
It’s a vague topic but I thought it would be useful discussion about market values and especially people’s personal experiences. Have you bought an M12 which was a nail? What happened? How much money did you lose on resale? Has anybody bought one of those cars for £6-12k that have been badly crashed and have you successfully put it back on the road or created a race car? Is the new keeper safe in it, does it veer to one side due to the toe change on the rear wheel when it hits a bump?
I was thinking what is a point at which these cars become interesting to modify. Sure, the money spent is literally wasted upon resale but at least one does not spoil a car in original condition with lots of history and perhaps you get to make a car to TurboHoses level, provided you modify the gearbox to take the extra torque.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/n...
The Titanium GTO-3R for sale cheap at the moment (link above) is not only Cat C (well repaired according to the owner) but lacks any history! I think anybody purchasing it even at £18k has questionable judgement. The specialists I occasionally speak to were advising that such “combo” of Cat C and no history is a big question mark in Noble-land unless somebody wants to own something that they will never sell (we all think that...). If a good car is £27k, would you trust the car be sellable in future knocking off just £8k?
I see some Nobles floating about for a long time. For example I liked one on Autotrader which is white with carbon. I thought the carbon vinyl wrap could be removed. However when I found out the white was ALSO a vinyl wrap (initially I thought it was a respray) I soon wondered that once the vinyl is peeled off, the paintwork underneath could need various TLC depending on the effects of the glue, sun heat etc. An M12 looks nice in white in my opinion but who in their right mind would vinyl wrap a Noble? Anybody vinyl wrapped theirs and then successfully removed the vinyl? I'd only trust that on a metal bodied car such as a GTR, I'd personally never do it on cars that can have blisters such as Noble or TVR...
Hope you’ve got some opinions and stories. Thanks
Knowing what I know now, I'd be more interested in what the previous owner knows about it rather than any rigid servicing plan it might have been subjected to. I think we all know by now that these cars don't really work like that and just need a constant TLC / fettling approach rather than a check every 10,000 miles or year.
Chapppers said:
Knowing what I know now, I'd be more interested in what the previous owner knows about it rather than any rigid servicing plan it might have been subjected to. I think we all know by now that these cars don't really work like that and just need a constant TLC / fettling approach rather than a check every 10,000 miles or year.
Yes, I see the reality of this. The inspection by Mole Valley’s mechanic (who worked at Noble) is probably better than lots of services for only oil and small consumables.But to me lack of any sort of history could indicate that vital internals (not only engine parts but other bits and pieces) have not been seen regularly and hence what we term “frequent fettling” might become a daily obsession. As an example I know of Ferrari F40s that run absolutely fine and some that constantly break down. Why? Because one has had its fuel tanks and all sorts of things replaced just before time, the other one has had a failure, which then causes another one and another like a stack of dominos.
Not saying Nobles are catastrophic but to me some cars are a bit like a house. Once you let mold or ivy or something take over, then not everything can be spotted and fettled. But I guess just like a surveyor can look at a house, so can an experienced mechanic, so it’s not all pessimism! ;-)
I've not found any CAT c to be cheap enough.
I looked at one and dropped out of the bidding at 15k. It eventually sold on for 18k.
It had had a minor engine fire but the plugs were out, it had stood for a year and the rear turbo appeared ceased.
This was just a quick look and all could have been fine..
Anyway, factor on no history, 5k for a rebuild, time and messing about, it's 23k before any other problems.
Didn't seem to add up for me.
Now, a repaired one is a different story- this one had no body or chassis damage and so with an engine rebuild it wouldn't really matter that it was catC.
I guess, in a confused way, I'm saying that as long as you have information on what the damage was and how it was repaired then it's not a problem.
But it's still going to reflect in the resale. I'd guess about 20% so a 25k car comes down to 20k if it's catc, but then it could rise again if it's something special (eg engine build to m400 spec, nice exhaust, etc).
I toyed with the bottom end of the market for a while, and ended up right at the top!
As a final note, it's quite possible that a 'good' car could have had some damage (say a new clam) that didn't go thru insurance where another might be written off and suffer a catC.
I looked at one and dropped out of the bidding at 15k. It eventually sold on for 18k.
It had had a minor engine fire but the plugs were out, it had stood for a year and the rear turbo appeared ceased.
This was just a quick look and all could have been fine..
Anyway, factor on no history, 5k for a rebuild, time and messing about, it's 23k before any other problems.
Didn't seem to add up for me.
Now, a repaired one is a different story- this one had no body or chassis damage and so with an engine rebuild it wouldn't really matter that it was catC.
I guess, in a confused way, I'm saying that as long as you have information on what the damage was and how it was repaired then it's not a problem.
But it's still going to reflect in the resale. I'd guess about 20% so a 25k car comes down to 20k if it's catc, but then it could rise again if it's something special (eg engine build to m400 spec, nice exhaust, etc).
I toyed with the bottom end of the market for a while, and ended up right at the top!
As a final note, it's quite possible that a 'good' car could have had some damage (say a new clam) that didn't go thru insurance where another might be written off and suffer a catC.
Hi,
Been to see the silver 3r in question, took my mechanic with me who has had 2 3rs in the past, spent around 3 hours looking at the car, someone sat at home (another ex 3r owner) on the computer checking chassis numbers/
engine numbers ect. Couple of little things needed (nothing major) the repair is quite good, (fibreglass behind the driver door under the intake, new wheel.
At the end of the day it's £18k I don't want to sell it on its a keeper, so am very interested.
Tim
Ps anyone from dorset area on here?
Been to see the silver 3r in question, took my mechanic with me who has had 2 3rs in the past, spent around 3 hours looking at the car, someone sat at home (another ex 3r owner) on the computer checking chassis numbers/
engine numbers ect. Couple of little things needed (nothing major) the repair is quite good, (fibreglass behind the driver door under the intake, new wheel.
At the end of the day it's £18k I don't want to sell it on its a keeper, so am very interested.
Tim
Ps anyone from dorset area on here?
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