Discussion
I can see over the years there are tons of postings about this but thought would be a fair idea to update myself on current thinking.
I have two sets of wheels / tyres for my 996 GT3 and both need replacing. I have the standard rims with Cups on and OZ rims with Toyos on. Been using the OZ rims for track and standard for road use. The Toyos have lasted Donnington, Silverstone and Castle Coombe and are pretty much on last legs now. The cups are also pretty low so thought would swap them out now and keep the old ones as spares just in case I need them.
The toyos are fab on track for first ten laps and then they seem to get too hot and you need to take a break to let them cool down and on a short track like Donnington or Castle Coombe that is frustrating just as you get into the groove. They also seem to get to a point where car becomes ready to break away quite easily at the back end. Anyone else experienced this with Toyos?
I'm planning 3 more track days this year, Goodwood, Castle Coombe and 2 days at Spa in October.
So I want to get the right combination of tyres for that and some road use and am considering the high probability that Spa will be wet on 1 if not both of the days in October.
Also taking my Gen 2 997 to Spa and that has Pirelli P Zeros on (swapped Pilots for them as drove car over to Poland for the summer and roads are worse and get hevier rain/thunder showers here so the higher tread was welcome. So I think that should be fine for the unpredictable conditions at Spa but would welcome any thoughts from others who have tracked a GT3 with P Zeros.
I have two sets of wheels / tyres for my 996 GT3 and both need replacing. I have the standard rims with Cups on and OZ rims with Toyos on. Been using the OZ rims for track and standard for road use. The Toyos have lasted Donnington, Silverstone and Castle Coombe and are pretty much on last legs now. The cups are also pretty low so thought would swap them out now and keep the old ones as spares just in case I need them.
The toyos are fab on track for first ten laps and then they seem to get too hot and you need to take a break to let them cool down and on a short track like Donnington or Castle Coombe that is frustrating just as you get into the groove. They also seem to get to a point where car becomes ready to break away quite easily at the back end. Anyone else experienced this with Toyos?
I'm planning 3 more track days this year, Goodwood, Castle Coombe and 2 days at Spa in October.
So I want to get the right combination of tyres for that and some road use and am considering the high probability that Spa will be wet on 1 if not both of the days in October.
Also taking my Gen 2 997 to Spa and that has Pirelli P Zeros on (swapped Pilots for them as drove car over to Poland for the summer and roads are worse and get hevier rain/thunder showers here so the higher tread was welcome. So I think that should be fine for the unpredictable conditions at Spa but would welcome any thoughts from others who have tracked a GT3 with P Zeros.
Dave Sums said:
I can see over the years there are tons of postings about this but thought would be a fair idea to update myself on current thinking.
I have two sets of wheels / tyres for my 996 GT3 and both need replacing. I have the standard rims with Cups on and OZ rims with Toyos on. Been using the OZ rims for track and standard for road use. The Toyos have lasted Donnington, Silverstone and Castle Coombe and are pretty much on last legs now. The cups are also pretty low so thought would swap them out now and keep the old ones as spares just in case I need them.
The toyos are fab on track for first ten laps and then they seem to get too hot and you need to take a break to let them cool down and on a short track like Donnington or Castle Coombe that is frustrating just as you get into the groove. They also seem to get to a point where car becomes ready to break away quite easily at the back end. Anyone else experienced this with Toyos?
I'm planning 3 more track days this year, Goodwood, Castle Coombe and 2 days at Spa in October.
So I want to get the right combination of tyres for that and some road use and am considering the high probability that Spa will be wet on 1 if not both of the days in October.
Also taking my Gen 2 997 to Spa and that has Pirelli P Zeros on (swapped Pilots for them as drove car over to Poland for the summer and roads are worse and get hevier rain/thunder showers here so the higher tread was welcome. So I think that should be fine for the unpredictable conditions at Spa but would welcome any thoughts from others who have tracked a GT3 with P Zeros.
I can only say that on my Cayman S, going from P Zeros to Michelin Super Sports was a revelation for a street tyre. I think you'll find them a touch slidey.I have two sets of wheels / tyres for my 996 GT3 and both need replacing. I have the standard rims with Cups on and OZ rims with Toyos on. Been using the OZ rims for track and standard for road use. The Toyos have lasted Donnington, Silverstone and Castle Coombe and are pretty much on last legs now. The cups are also pretty low so thought would swap them out now and keep the old ones as spares just in case I need them.
The toyos are fab on track for first ten laps and then they seem to get too hot and you need to take a break to let them cool down and on a short track like Donnington or Castle Coombe that is frustrating just as you get into the groove. They also seem to get to a point where car becomes ready to break away quite easily at the back end. Anyone else experienced this with Toyos?
I'm planning 3 more track days this year, Goodwood, Castle Coombe and 2 days at Spa in October.
So I want to get the right combination of tyres for that and some road use and am considering the high probability that Spa will be wet on 1 if not both of the days in October.
Also taking my Gen 2 997 to Spa and that has Pirelli P Zeros on (swapped Pilots for them as drove car over to Poland for the summer and roads are worse and get hevier rain/thunder showers here so the higher tread was welcome. So I think that should be fine for the unpredictable conditions at Spa but would welcome any thoughts from others who have tracked a GT3 with P Zeros.
On the 996 I much prefer cups to 888's on track. How come you only use the cups on the road?
Some tracks end up overheating any R compound tyres eventually. If the pressure is right you just have to accept it and have a tea break. The cups I've found take longer to get to overheat on the rear compared to the 888's.
Some tracks end up overheating any R compound tyres eventually. If the pressure is right you just have to accept it and have a tea break. The cups I've found take longer to get to overheat on the rear compared to the 888's.
Edited by maximtaylor on Thursday 1st August 09:40
Don't rule out Dunlops
My mate and i did Oulton in July , him on brand new Toyos in his GT3RS and me on brand new Dunlop DZ03G in my GT3 Mk1
The Toyos eventualy went off way before the Dunlops whose grip was astonishing.
You must run the Dunlops at a lower pressure than the Toyos and my guess is they won't last as long BUT I only paid £700 for a full set last year. Def worth a look.
My mate and i did Oulton in July , him on brand new Toyos in his GT3RS and me on brand new Dunlop DZ03G in my GT3 Mk1
The Toyos eventualy went off way before the Dunlops whose grip was astonishing.
You must run the Dunlops at a lower pressure than the Toyos and my guess is they won't last as long BUT I only paid £700 for a full set last year. Def worth a look.
Cups are a lot more heat stable than 888's., and ultimately a faster tyre on track. However, I find 888's are very good on colder trackdays, and particulary good on wet days too, due to having proper water clearing pattern.
Combine this with the fact that you seem to get nearly twice the tread depth that you get with cups and they are significantly cheaper, then they're pretty hard to overlook.
Combine this with the fact that you seem to get nearly twice the tread depth that you get with cups and they are significantly cheaper, then they're pretty hard to overlook.
I've fitted the new Pirelli Trofeo to my 996.2 GT3. Very happy with them. Not got them to the stage of going off yet and they seem to work very well in the damp too.
Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
jackwood said:
I've fitted the new Pirelli Trofeo to my 996.2 GT3. Very happy with them. Not got them to the stage of going off yet and they seem to work very well in the damp too.
Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
What's the wear rate like on the Cups?Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
maximtaylor said:
On the 996 I much prefer cups to 888's on track. How come you only use the cups on the road?
Some tracks end up overheating any R compound tyres eventually. If the pressure is right you just have to accept it and have a tea break. The cups I've found take longer to get to overheat on the rear compared to the 888's.
I only use cups on the 996 GT3 as that is what was on it when I bought it last year and I bought a 2nd set of lighter OZ wheels for track use to ensure the original GT3 wheels stayed in perfect nick in the event of a big off (fortunately I've stayed firmly on the black stuff at all times!)Some tracks end up overheating any R compound tyres eventually. If the pressure is right you just have to accept it and have a tea break. The cups I've found take longer to get to overheat on the rear compared to the 888's.
Edited by maximtaylor on Thursday 1st August 09:40
Defo have right pressures are check every few laps at first until it stabilises...
mike58 said:
Don't rule out Dunlops
My mate and i did Oulton in July , him on brand new Toyos in his GT3RS and me on brand new Dunlop DZ03G in my GT3 Mk1
The Toyos eventualy went off way before the Dunlops whose grip was astonishing.
You must run the Dunlops at a lower pressure than the Toyos and my guess is they won't last as long BUT I only paid £700 for a full set last year. Def worth a look.
I've never used Dunlops. Cost is not a factor, I just want tyres that don't go off so quick and have a good option for hot or cold or wet weather...My mate and i did Oulton in July , him on brand new Toyos in his GT3RS and me on brand new Dunlop DZ03G in my GT3 Mk1
The Toyos eventualy went off way before the Dunlops whose grip was astonishing.
You must run the Dunlops at a lower pressure than the Toyos and my guess is they won't last as long BUT I only paid £700 for a full set last year. Def worth a look.
The 997 will stay on it's Pirellis as I only have one set of wheels for that car and not sure if I'm going to keep it or sell it when my 991 GT3 arrives in Autumn. Have to see what the PDK is like first:-)
GT3s with Toyos can often get a bit loose under braking when the tyres get too hot BUT it is also a sign that your diff is gone. Or, put it this way, I got used to my Toyos doing that so came in after 15 mins max at Castle Combe. But when I had a motorsport diff plates fitted the back end felt solid even after 10 laps or more - braking was like chucking an anchor out the back. My original diff plates were shot after 20,000 miles and three track days!
jackwood said:
I've fitted the new Pirelli Trofeo to my 996.2 GT3. Very happy with them. Not got them to the stage of going off yet and they seem to work very well in the damp too.
Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
Useful link and I think has answered my question really. Thanks.Interestingly they can now be bought of less than Cups at the moment, and they seem to be in good supply. I think the 888's have increased in price significantly, bringing them all very close in price. But given the reviews below I didn't even consider them or price them up.
Two reviews on semi-slick tyres here:
Last years test on a 911 - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Sport-Au...
This years test on a hot hatch - http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2013-Auto-Bil...
Both tests are very damning of the 888's. Dead last with significantly lower scores than the others.
Not sure why you run Cups as a road tyre ether. Cups have long been thought of as the best track tyre for the GT3, so why go for the (historically cheaper) 888 as the track tyre and relegate the Cups to purely road use?
I bought the GT3 and it had Cups on it already and when I bought the OZ wheels it was suggested I use Toyos so I did as I didn't know better then. But now I know to ask you lads for advice and experience and greatly received. Pirelli Trofeo seems good all rounder and I think maybe I'll just fit them to both road and track wheels.....
drmark said:
GT3s with Toyos can often get a bit loose under braking when the tyres get too hot BUT it is also a sign that your diff is gone. Or, put it this way, I got used to my Toyos doing that so came in after 15 mins max at Castle Combe. But when I had a motorsport diff plates fitted the back end felt solid even after 10 laps or more - braking was like chucking an anchor out the back. My original diff plates were shot after 20,000 miles and three track days!
I think the diff is fine. The car has only done 9000 miles from new and only 3 track days in it's time and I am not the most agressive of drivers and have never spun it or anything like that. I've had it from 6500 miles and I know the previous owner was an old lad who never tracked it.I think I'll try new tyres and see what it is like and then in the autumn give it to a specialist for a proper check up and set up to make sure all is good...
So taking this a little further, the Pirelli Trofeo certainly are the ones for the dry but digging a bit deeper I'm not so sure what they would be like at a soaking wet Spa (as often happens there). Has anyone got any specific suggestions for a full wet tyre that is tried and tested?
I have run cups for 2 years now in wet and dry conditions including a wet Spa and have had more than ample grip levels. It is a balancing act between tyres suspension setup and tyre pressures. The amount of people I have had in as passengers that have commented on the amount of grip available in the wet is amazing!
I just run cups for wet and dry track days. I did Spa last year and drove 800 miles there and back plus 400 miles of track use. Still managed 1 more track day when I got back on same set of rears.
Mike
I just run cups for wet and dry track days. I did Spa last year and drove 800 miles there and back plus 400 miles of track use. Still managed 1 more track day when I got back on same set of rears.
Mike
Score or lap time?
The first 4 tyres have very little in it, we are talking minimal % differences in the scores / times. as most of us are using these on TDs it doesn't really matter. From personal experience I've used the Trofeo and cups on track and must say I believe the Trofeo to be a better tyre, but I'm talking small margin which doesn't IMO justify the additional cost and therefore I'll be using which ever is cheapest when I next go looking for tyres. Anyone one got a good supplier?
Jon.
The first 4 tyres have very little in it, we are talking minimal % differences in the scores / times. as most of us are using these on TDs it doesn't really matter. From personal experience I've used the Trofeo and cups on track and must say I believe the Trofeo to be a better tyre, but I'm talking small margin which doesn't IMO justify the additional cost and therefore I'll be using which ever is cheapest when I next go looking for tyres. Anyone one got a good supplier?
Jon.
For me, cups are the best tyre for track work. Very consistent and predictable over a cycle. Did some back to ba k testing with them against slicks and found the comparative performance astounding. Brands GP in a 996Rs 1.38 on slicks lap 3. By lap 30 down to 1.40. Lap 40 pretty much undriveable. Cups 1.39 on lap 5. 1.40 lap 30, 1.40.5, lap 40. One of the very best tyres I've ever used. Corsa's close in optimum pace - around 3/4 tenths but more wheel correction needed to get the times. Less confidence inspiring and slower at the end of the stint but still a very good tyre. On the road, I never ask that much of a tyre so couldn't really comment on outright performance. I've lived with cups on a 996GT3 MK1as a daily driver all through one winter and they were ok providing you we're smooth. PS2's are ok on the road but hopeless (relatively on the track). The corsa was a lot easier on the road and allowed you to drive with much less concentration than the cups. On balance as an overall package, I'd go for the Corsa. I have some experience of the original Dunlop Sport Max which was pretty poor. They must have greatly improved the new tyre but can't comment because I haven't driven it yet. Is it available for the 996?
Glenn McMenamin said:
Cups are a lot more heat stable than 888's., and ultimately a faster tyre on track. However, I find 888's are very good on colder trackdays, and particulary good on wet days too, due to having proper water clearing pattern.
Combine this with the fact that you seem to get nearly twice the tread depth that you get with cups and they are significantly cheaper, then they're pretty hard to overlook.
Combine this with the fact that you seem to get nearly twice the tread depth that you get with cups and they are significantly cheaper, then they're pretty hard to overlook.
Tread depths from new:
M Cups - 5mm
888s - 5mm
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