Cure for Type 2 Diabetes ?
Discussion
Plausible article on research done for diet to cure low insulin production.
The thinking is that the pancreas is blocked not knackered and a 800 cal p/day diet for a few weeks will make the body pull fat from the pancreas thus unblocking it.
Patients who have a tummy band / ring put in get over T2 immediately and this is thought to be because they cannot eat significantly for weeks after the operation thus causing the fat burning that effects the pancreas - plausible.
Now 800 cals a day for a lard arse to go from (probably) 3/4000 a day to 800 is not easy or possibly do able but Im going to ask the Dr what he thinks obviously.
Anyone got an input on this
The thinking is that the pancreas is blocked not knackered and a 800 cal p/day diet for a few weeks will make the body pull fat from the pancreas thus unblocking it.
Patients who have a tummy band / ring put in get over T2 immediately and this is thought to be because they cannot eat significantly for weeks after the operation thus causing the fat burning that effects the pancreas - plausible.
Now 800 cals a day for a lard arse to go from (probably) 3/4000 a day to 800 is not easy or possibly do able but Im going to ask the Dr what he thinks obviously.
Anyone got an input on this
They had a programme on Channel 4 about this exact topic.
They took 6 obese women that were at various degrees of Type 2 and put them on two different diets. First group of 3 had 3x200 calorie shakes per day and the other 3 had a low carb/high protien diet.
Over the course of 8 weeks they all lost significant weight and their degree of T2D decreased in all of them and the youngest basically was no longer diabetic after 8 weeks.
Can't remember the name of the show but likely to be available on 4 on demand still.
They took 6 obese women that were at various degrees of Type 2 and put them on two different diets. First group of 3 had 3x200 calorie shakes per day and the other 3 had a low carb/high protien diet.
Over the course of 8 weeks they all lost significant weight and their degree of T2D decreased in all of them and the youngest basically was no longer diabetic after 8 weeks.
Can't remember the name of the show but likely to be available on 4 on demand still.
I read something about this on the Guardian app too - I think one of their journalists was diagnosed. He didnt look obese but went on meat and veg only. Lost weight and his diabetes sorted itself out. The theory was that the pancreas was surrounded by fat and unable to function.
Makes sense if you think about it.
Makes sense if you think about it.
Davel said:
Yes but, as soon as the weight comes back on - so does the Diabetes sadly.
Well there's the rub. If the change in diet is effective and sustainable - then great. If it is too extreme (see very low calorie milkshake supplements) then there will be improvement, but very high chance of relapse if the original dietary habits that caused the diabetes in the first place are not addressed.My wife has T2 and after diagnosis put on weight because she was told to eat more!
It has taken months to get an appointment with a dietician who made no mention of the what the OP is talking about so we will ask when we next see her.
We had to push for the dietician appointment, the GP was just content on giving her drugs to 'help' control it.
It has taken months to get an appointment with a dietician who made no mention of the what the OP is talking about so we will ask when we next see her.
We had to push for the dietician appointment, the GP was just content on giving her drugs to 'help' control it.
Diabetes is getting like cancer - surrounded by anecdotal and mountebank-ish crap on miracle cures and 'things the doctors won't tell you'. Best to stick to proper peer reviewed research with a credible evidence base.
You could start here:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reve...
This is at the forefront of type 2 diabetes research.
Most GP's will not have expert knowledge about diabetes. You could ask for a referral to the consultant if you want to discuss what you've read and what you could do.
You could start here:
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reve...
This is at the forefront of type 2 diabetes research.
Most GP's will not have expert knowledge about diabetes. You could ask for a referral to the consultant if you want to discuss what you've read and what you could do.
I am seen regularly by the specialist team within my health district. Great support and they know what they are talking about. GP referral takes you there. My type 2 has developed to my starting injecting insulin about a month ago.
A dramatic affect on how I feel generally with blood sugar levels lower than I have had ever since diagnosis, about 7 years.
I listened to advice, but didn't hear it until recently.
A dramatic affect on how I feel generally with blood sugar levels lower than I have had ever since diagnosis, about 7 years.
I listened to advice, but didn't hear it until recently.
silverthorn2151 said:
I am seen regularly by the specialist team within my health district. Great support and they know what they are talking about. GP referral takes you there. My type 2 has developed to my starting injecting insulin about a month ago.
A dramatic affect on how I feel generally with blood sugar levels lower than I have had ever since diagnosis, about 7 years.
I listened to advice, but didn't hear it until recently.
i stated injecting insulin less than a week ago , type 2 .A dramatic affect on how I feel generally with blood sugar levels lower than I have had ever since diagnosis, about 7 years.
I listened to advice, but didn't hear it until recently.
not felt the benefit yet , but all my hopes are tied up in this as i have had a really bad time of it to the extent that i am unable to work. how long did it take before you felt any better ?
I started on 8 units and my nurse said to increase by 4 whilst monitoring my levels. When I was getting it lower than 10 to the adjust by 2. Turns out 8 units is what they give babies and its just for practice really. I put it up pretty quickly and I am still trying to get it sorted out properly.
I felt better after a week or so and injecting is less traumatic for me than pricking for a test, over which I have a real block!
I felt better after a week or so and injecting is less traumatic for me than pricking for a test, over which I have a real block!
the sooner you get away from gp's the better . i have had so much contradictory advice from my gp practice .
see a specialist , i know that is easier said than done . i waited three months for an appointment and when i got there the doctor had no notes for me . so i had to wait another three months .
i now go to a specialist diabetes practice , who can see me at a days notice and are only a phone call away if i need any advice .
i will be seeing a specialist dietician soon as i have lost a lot of weight . i weigh around six stone and i am very very weak so i am hoping that a combination of insulin and better diet will help.
whilst we are all diabetics together , does anybody else appear , like me , to be addicted to suger? i mean cakes , biscuits and ice cream ? i cannot help myself and although i know those things are bad for me i cannot help myself
see a specialist , i know that is easier said than done . i waited three months for an appointment and when i got there the doctor had no notes for me . so i had to wait another three months .
i now go to a specialist diabetes practice , who can see me at a days notice and are only a phone call away if i need any advice .
i will be seeing a specialist dietician soon as i have lost a lot of weight . i weigh around six stone and i am very very weak so i am hoping that a combination of insulin and better diet will help.
whilst we are all diabetics together , does anybody else appear , like me , to be addicted to suger? i mean cakes , biscuits and ice cream ? i cannot help myself and although i know those things are bad for me i cannot help myself
Not addicted but I didn't stick to the correct diet until I started Insulin, although I do still have the odd treat.
From memory, I lost two stone in two weeks when it first showed itself.
You will find that, as your level drops, your appetite will return and you will soon feel much better - and so still having sugary things will slow down or stop the level from dropping and maybe prevent you from feeling much better.
Coca Cola was my worst enemy until I switched to Diet Coke etc.
I'm lucky that my GP specialises in Diabetes and the Surgery has its own Diabetic Team who are great. They've looked after me for twelve years and from exercise and diet, to exercise tablets and diet, to exercise insulin tablets and diet.
I agree that the finger prick is far worse than the insulin jab.
As my GP said, there are far worse diseases to get - you just have to acknowledge that you have it and live life accordingly.
It doesn't have to take over your life.
From memory, I lost two stone in two weeks when it first showed itself.
You will find that, as your level drops, your appetite will return and you will soon feel much better - and so still having sugary things will slow down or stop the level from dropping and maybe prevent you from feeling much better.
Coca Cola was my worst enemy until I switched to Diet Coke etc.
I'm lucky that my GP specialises in Diabetes and the Surgery has its own Diabetic Team who are great. They've looked after me for twelve years and from exercise and diet, to exercise tablets and diet, to exercise insulin tablets and diet.
I agree that the finger prick is far worse than the insulin jab.
As my GP said, there are far worse diseases to get - you just have to acknowledge that you have it and live life accordingly.
It doesn't have to take over your life.
I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in 2003, oddly after a few days of feeling like crap I happened to walk past a pharmacy offering free tests that day and listing some symptoms with rang a bell and it came back positive. - ended up in the GP's a few days later and was told I was in the "diet controlled" band, so that's what I did - in 2005 I took up cycling and it's been my passion ever since at first if I didn't look after myself I suffered terrible mood swings, my friends got used to be told I'd cut their face off (my go to rant - not nice) and just ask me to eat something a few hours into a ride, but as the months passed and I got lighter and fitter I felt great and rarely got the mood swings - fast forward a few years and I'd managed to put myself in hospital after a mountain bike crash and had my sugars monitored a few times a day and they were pretty constant and good, apart from when needed to fast for an opp they fell to low 2's very quickly and they had to give me a few lumps of choc to get them up before surgery. After getting over all that I took my riding even more seriously and have been steadily improving ever since.
I changed GP's about 6 months ago and was asked to go in for an 'MOT' given the weighty file that came over for me, they tested for Diabetes and the tests came back Negative.
I'm not sure if I've been 'cured' - I assume that I was a mild case 10 years ago and a significant change in lifestyle has averted danger, but it's possible I guess.
I changed GP's about 6 months ago and was asked to go in for an 'MOT' given the weighty file that came over for me, they tested for Diabetes and the tests came back Negative.
I'm not sure if I've been 'cured' - I assume that I was a mild case 10 years ago and a significant change in lifestyle has averted danger, but it's possible I guess.
DSLiverpool said:
Anyone got an input on this
It's highly likely to be b
ks would be my first bit of input.It's been a while since I worked in diabetic studies, but if memory serves you get type II diabetes because of physicological and/or functional failure in the bodies Islets of langerhans.
Again to caveat, I'm not an expert by any means, I am but a humble clinical researcher (meaning I principally send emails all day) but based on what I do know the idea of a change in diet magically repairing these cells seems pretty unlikely. The cells are full of plaques or structurally damaged or don't work. Changing the calorie content of your diet may benefit you, but it can't regenerate these cells.
To offer an explanation to the results, I believe I'm correct in saying that diabetes 2 is diagnosed on the basis of HbA1C levels. These can fluctuate. A change of diet may push you over or under the threshold, but only if you're borderline in the first place. So its highly unlikely to be in any way curative.
FYI:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC257038...
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/what_is...
Prof Prolapse said:
DSLiverpool said:
Anyone got an input on this
It's highly likely to be bks would be my first bit of input.It's been a while since I worked in diabetic studies, but if memory serves you get type II diabetes because of physicological and/or functional failure in the bodies Islets of langerhans.
Again to caveat, I'm not an expert by any means, I am but a humble clinical researcher (meaning I principally send emails all day) but based on what I do know the idea of a change in diet magically repairing these cells seems pretty unlikely. The cells are full of plaques or structurally damaged or don't work. Changing the calorie content of your diet may benefit you, but it can't regenerate these cells.
To offer an explanation to the results, I believe I'm correct in saying that diabetes 2 is diagnosed on the basis of HbA1C levels. These can fluctuate. A change of diet may push you over or under the threshold, but only if you're borderline in the first place. So its highly unlikely to be in any way curative.
FYI:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC257038...
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevention/what_is...
The theory is that the weight loss helps because of the reduction of fat in the liver and, particularly pancreas, tests of which show proper function returning in the pancreas once fat had been removed. Diets/weight loss help reduce fat in the liver pretty quickly but it needs more determination to get the excess in the pancreas down.
He said there is no magic to the timing (one guy had done it in 11 days) but it's demonstrably hard for people to maintain a steady but consistent (necessary) weight/fat loss so for many the short but sharp shock regime is more likely to work - a desperation measure they might be persuaded to cope with for a short emergency type period. Once sorted the pancreas continues to work properly as long as the patient does not put weight back on.
My mother died of diabetes related heart issues at just 60, having had it diagnosed too late and with doctors doing F all about the arterial damage etc. in her lower limbs for way too long. She did stick to their prescribed diets pretty well and lost weight but slowly and not enough + was too inactive. Her sister died last year after years of misery caused by diabetes including incurable ulcers etc. - maybe a family link. So I've taken quite an interest in this disease and studies into causes and potential cures for a long while, including getting checked myself every couple of years.
My 82 year old father was diagnosed with Type 2 a few years back and has regular monitoring. He has been doing the "5, 2" diet for a couple of months and has lost over a stone. I've tried to encourage hm to exercise more but his knees make HIIT type training too hard so he walks a bit, does gentle cycle work and medicine ball exercises (when nagged!)
He was tested last week and his results are the best they've been for years (complete with cholesterol of 3.9 and much better blood pressure) and he is no longer classed by the doctor as diabetic and does not need medication.
Case studies mean bugger all mate. If you want the truth you need to run a study, that's where I am an expert, medics will frequently plough these stories via the media to try and attempt funding.
I'm open to the concept, genuinely, but I've seen this kind of thing hundreds of times. I'll wait for the evidence to materialise. You should do the same.
I'm open to the concept, genuinely, but I've seen this kind of thing hundreds of times. I'll wait for the evidence to materialise. You should do the same.
Prof Prolapse said:
Case studies mean bugger all mate. If you want the truth you need to run a study, that's where I am an expert, medics will frequently plough these stories via the media to try and attempt funding.
I'm open to the concept, genuinely, but I've seen this kind of thing hundreds of times. I'll wait for the evidence to materialise. You should do the same.
The radio reported case studies, one in particular, but the scientist interviewed - not described as a medic; Professor Roy Taylor: < http://www.ncl.ac.uk/biomedicine/research/groups/p... > - had conducted years of scientific research in this particular field (have you?) unless the broadcasters have misrepresented his background/credentials... mate.I'm open to the concept, genuinely, but I've seen this kind of thing hundreds of times. I'll wait for the evidence to materialise. You should do the same.
From his resume: "My role encompasses application of magnetic resonance spectroscopy to clinical medicine, metabolic research in diabetes, stable isotope analysis in the Biomedical Mass Spectrometry Unit, clinical outcome research in diabetic pregnancy, prevention of blindness by retinal screening in diabetes, teaching and provision of clinical service in diabetes, obstetric medicine and retinal screening."
Edited by AnonSpoilSport on Friday 9th August 11:32
AnonSpoilSport said:
The radio reported case studies, one in particular, but the scientist interviewed - not described as a medic; Professor Roy Taylor: < http://www.ncl.ac.uk/biomedicine/research/groups/p... > - had conducted years of scientific research in this particular field (have you?) unless the broadcasters have misrepresented his background/credentials... mate.
I love your thinly veiled aggression when using mocking my use of the word "mate". Ultimately if you don't understand, or want to understand the reality of the situation then by all means put a lot of weight on this. It may turn out to be true and you can claim you were right all along and I'm an idiot for not believing one of the thousands of theories based on case studies that will be brought out this year. The reality is however that a healthy scepticism is normal at this stage of research. I would be amazed if Professor Taylor did not agree.
What you are attempting to do now is an argument from authority based on Professor Taylor's role. I have nothing but respect for the man based on what I know, but ultimately that does not alter the weight of the evidence. Case studies give proof of concept and give us a platform for research. But there is a long way to go to take your theory from case study to a recognised clinical treatment. Which may well eventually become the case.
As for research in this field. I specialise in Oncology, but I have worked on diabetic studies before yes. This point, like the fact Prof. Taylor is a medic, is redundant however.
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