More tyre advice for new owner - Thoughts on Avon ZV3's
Discussion
Hi All
I ve just joined the fold with 1.6 K Roadsport and loving it. I don’t think its sunk in yet that there is my childhood dream car in the garage, but there is! Anyway, I don’t intend to track the car, just use it for general touring/blatting, but i do intend to supersport it at some stage in the future.
The car is in great condition and I understand the 13" v 14" wheel debate and its on original 14” minilites with its original Avon ZV3’s which are 6 years old with 10000 miles on them. It rides well but the tyres seem quite hard and the car doesn’t offer as much grip as i would expect (tyre pressures are 20psi inline with manual),so the questions i have are:
Would tyres of this mileage and age get hard and therefore effect grip, and if so would they gradually improve and ‘scrub in’ with more use now?
Whats the general view on these tyres?
It's likely to remain on 14" wheels for the foreseeable so what would be a good 14” alternative that offers more performance?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.
DickieH
I ve just joined the fold with 1.6 K Roadsport and loving it. I don’t think its sunk in yet that there is my childhood dream car in the garage, but there is! Anyway, I don’t intend to track the car, just use it for general touring/blatting, but i do intend to supersport it at some stage in the future.
The car is in great condition and I understand the 13" v 14" wheel debate and its on original 14” minilites with its original Avon ZV3’s which are 6 years old with 10000 miles on them. It rides well but the tyres seem quite hard and the car doesn’t offer as much grip as i would expect (tyre pressures are 20psi inline with manual),so the questions i have are:
Would tyres of this mileage and age get hard and therefore effect grip, and if so would they gradually improve and ‘scrub in’ with more use now?
Whats the general view on these tyres?
It's likely to remain on 14" wheels for the foreseeable so what would be a good 14” alternative that offers more performance?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.
DickieH
Personally I'd change the tyres out for something better. 6 years is pretty old and the ZV3's aren't particularly highly rated anyway.
I can't offer advice on the 14's, but if you did go for 13's, then the CR500's are a great tyre. We've got 15's at the moment and in the past week they've been though torrential rain and glorious sunshine and the grip has been brilliant. It's pretty hard to break traction with the 15's (and borderline impossible on the road with 140bhp), but I'd imagine the 13's would be a bit more mobile and predictable (I've bought some 13" wheels but I've yet to get any tyres - when I do I'll be sure to post some thoughts on them).
I'm sure someone will be able to help you with 14" choices, but Yokohama AO21r seem to be popular for blatting and touring.
I can't offer advice on the 14's, but if you did go for 13's, then the CR500's are a great tyre. We've got 15's at the moment and in the past week they've been though torrential rain and glorious sunshine and the grip has been brilliant. It's pretty hard to break traction with the 15's (and borderline impossible on the road with 140bhp), but I'd imagine the 13's would be a bit more mobile and predictable (I've bought some 13" wheels but I've yet to get any tyres - when I do I'll be sure to post some thoughts on them).
I'm sure someone will be able to help you with 14" choices, but Yokohama AO21r seem to be popular for blatting and touring.
As above, ditch the ZV3's ASAP!
Not sure in 14" but AO21's, AO48's, CR500's, Toyo888's, ToyoR1R's will all transform the handling over the ZV's.
Try to get along to a Lotus 7 Club meet and ask around there as well.
Not sure in 14" but AO21's, AO48's, CR500's, Toyo888's, ToyoR1R's will all transform the handling over the ZV's.
Try to get along to a Lotus 7 Club meet and ask around there as well.
Buy yourself a new 7 with better handling, grip, speed, communication, confidence with a bigger grin factor.
OR
Just buy some decent tyres.
I had Michelin Pile ups on mine when I bought it, great fun at slow speed with lots of slides but I was not confident in the bends, I changed the tyres, what a difference, the car now does what it says on the can.
OR
Just buy some decent tyres.
I had Michelin Pile ups on mine when I bought it, great fun at slow speed with lots of slides but I was not confident in the bends, I changed the tyres, what a difference, the car now does what it says on the can.
If you want a less extreme tyre than the trackday type tyres others have suggested, I swapped by 10 year old ZV1's (like driving on glass!) for Falken ZE912's in 185/60/14. Car was similarly transformed and despite 200 plus bhp and a heavy foot have performed well, especially wet grip confidence. Although I get great traction control from my occasionally slipping clutch!!! The ride (and road noise) also transformed plus I got all 5 for £260! I expect they would explode on a track day - but I don't do trackdays...
A similar 'mid-performance' tyre is a Toyo T1-R. I been 'having a go' with these recently, in R15 195 50, on my Duratec powered SV and they are fine for the price (£220 fitted for four back in Feb). In theory, they have too stiff a side wall for something as light as a 7, but as my car (and myself...) is at the heavier end...
They are much better than ZV3s (not hard I know) and the grip on the rear seems similar to the Kumho Ecsta SPs I had before. They have done a day at Curborough and at Cadwell and seemed to cope fine, although clearly they are not as good as more track orientated rubber. I've also done 3k road miles with them and there is not much wear so far. No problems in the wet either.
I think my current plan is to buy some 13 inch wheels to put some sticker tyres on for track days, and then get some 'better' road rubber (e.g. R1-R or CR500) to see if the extra cost vs performance on the road is worth the extra over the T1-Rs, bearing in mind I won't care about track use.
They are much better than ZV3s (not hard I know) and the grip on the rear seems similar to the Kumho Ecsta SPs I had before. They have done a day at Curborough and at Cadwell and seemed to cope fine, although clearly they are not as good as more track orientated rubber. I've also done 3k road miles with them and there is not much wear so far. No problems in the wet either.
I think my current plan is to buy some 13 inch wheels to put some sticker tyres on for track days, and then get some 'better' road rubber (e.g. R1-R or CR500) to see if the extra cost vs performance on the road is worth the extra over the T1-Rs, bearing in mind I won't care about track use.
Dr Slotter has just shown the advantage of 15 inch wheels, you have the choice of Toyo R1r tyres which are very good and cheaper than Yokohama a021r for 14 inch wheels.
Keeping 14 inch wheels, the Yokohamas are definitely the best tyre you will find for mixed weather road use. Mine lasted 8000 miles including two track days (but I'm not up to drifting!), but only because I swapped the fronts to the back after a year.
13 inch wheels re great for track, but getting sufficient ground clearance (without using 70 profiles tyres) is a problem and involves fitting adjustable platform shocks.
Keeping 14 inch wheels, the Yokohamas are definitely the best tyre you will find for mixed weather road use. Mine lasted 8000 miles including two track days (but I'm not up to drifting!), but only because I swapped the fronts to the back after a year.
13 inch wheels re great for track, but getting sufficient ground clearance (without using 70 profiles tyres) is a problem and involves fitting adjustable platform shocks.
Guys thanks for the last thoughts, very interesting. I can certainly vouch for the Proxes as i have them on another car – great grippy tyre for the money IMO. Thing is i must have minilites on the 7, so it’s keep the 14” and go AO21’s - but they are expensivo or look at something like the Falkens which is an interesting idea, thanks mellow7 - and one ill pursue a little further it think. The other option is 13” wheels and a cheaper and wider tyre avenue to explore. Although a little confused re the ground clearance point with the 13” downsman. Is nt the clearance effectively the same as the profile is increased on the 13” wheels?
DickieH said:
Guys thanks for the last thoughts, very interesting. I can certainly vouch for the Proxes as i have them on another car – great grippy tyre for the money IMO. Thing is i must have minilites on the 7, so it’s keep the 14” and go AO21’s - but they are expensivo or look at something like the Falkens which is an interesting idea, thanks mellow7 - and one ill pursue a little further it think. The other option is 13” wheels and a cheaper and wider tyre avenue to explore. Although a little confused re the ground clearance point with the 13” downsman. Is nt the clearance effectively the same as the profile is increased on the 13” wheels?
Clearance is less if you go for the 13" CR500 175/55 all round (as the Supersport currently does).DickieH said:
Guys thanks for the last thoughts, very interesting. I can certainly vouch for the Proxes as i have them on another car – great grippy tyre for the money IMO. Thing is i must have minilites on the 7, so it’s keep the 14” and go AO21’s - but they are expensivo or look at something like the Falkens which is an interesting idea, thanks mellow7 - and one ill pursue a little further it think. The other option is 13” wheels and a cheaper and wider tyre avenue to explore. Although a little confused re the ground clearance point with the 13” downsman. Is nt the clearance effectively the same as the profile is increased on the 13” wheels?
Or you could go with 13" minilites and 185/70HR13 AO21s which are a LOT cheaper then the 14" and the higher profile maintains your ground clearance (near enough) I've been running 13" wheels and the Yoko 21s in 185/70/13 profile on my 7 for the last 10 years, with no ground clearance issues. I moved from 15" Prisoner wheels with the infamous Michelin 'Pileups' in 195/50/15 profile and the rolling circumference is pretty much the same.
IMHO the 21 is a very good all weather tyre at a very cheap price.
IMHO the 21 is a very good all weather tyre at a very cheap price.
My post appears to have been misinterpreted, 13 inch wheels with 60 or 55 profile 185 tyres will drop the ride height and potentially create clearance issues without raising the suspension.
As a 185x70x13 has a larger diameter than a 185x60x14 there won't be any problem, as there wouldn't be using 205x60x13.
As a 185x70x13 has a larger diameter than a 185x60x14 there won't be any problem, as there wouldn't be using 205x60x13.
I just put on a set of brand new ZV3's and have been doing about 600miles on them. For a low powered Seven it is a good choice. I find it OK both in the wet and the dry. Brakes away when you want to, and I think its quite predictable. I can't understand why everyone is negative about it. Sure a 021 has better grip, but It might be too sticky for a low powered vehicle. Why did Caterham choose it as their prefered tyre on the low powered vehicles?
We put some toyo R 888s on ours in 14s.
Our car is 155hp-ish and even on track you had to really push to get the rear moving, on knackered suspension it was running rings round track prepped/caged clios/integras on similar tyres ao48s etc. in the corners. A
They offer a lot of grip cold and when warned up when they offer a huge amount of grip.
They are still good in the cold and wet as long as there is no standing water.
We're lasting reasonably until we did 2 track days at Aintree which is very hard on tyres. Mostly high speed long right handers and the offside tyres went onto the legal limit.
They have a fairly stiff heavy steel carcas so you can run them properly low although they are quite heavy and you can feel it.
Almost 2 grippy for the road.
Bought 5 wheels off someone on blatchat, 14s with mildly sporty road tyres and put them on for road use (£100 bargain), car is more lively on the road and feels like a caterham should, slidy but would like more grip. Something intermediate like a toyo R1R would be ideal.
Our car is 155hp-ish and even on track you had to really push to get the rear moving, on knackered suspension it was running rings round track prepped/caged clios/integras on similar tyres ao48s etc. in the corners. A
They offer a lot of grip cold and when warned up when they offer a huge amount of grip.
They are still good in the cold and wet as long as there is no standing water.
We're lasting reasonably until we did 2 track days at Aintree which is very hard on tyres. Mostly high speed long right handers and the offside tyres went onto the legal limit.
They have a fairly stiff heavy steel carcas so you can run them properly low although they are quite heavy and you can feel it.
Almost 2 grippy for the road.
Bought 5 wheels off someone on blatchat, 14s with mildly sporty road tyres and put them on for road use (£100 bargain), car is more lively on the road and feels like a caterham should, slidy but would like more grip. Something intermediate like a toyo R1R would be ideal.
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