N62 550i - gearbox or engine issues?
Discussion
Not sure if anyone can help me? Long-time poster on BMWLand but there's not an awful lot of N62's knocking around even on that site.
So, I've had my 550i for 10 months now and love it to bits. BUT, I'm really struggling to get it to A1 condition and the dealership is a bit puzzled currently as to what may be causing the below symptoms. I'm adamant it's not right, but the car's not generating any fault codes, so it appears the Techs won't / can't do much without something tangible to go on. So far it's had....
- readjustment of VANOS;
- 8 new spark plugs at last service (plus new oil & oil/air filters);
- 2 x new crank case breathers;
- update engine map;
- gearbox map reset.
Symptoms are as follows:
- on light throttle application and then to overrun there's a judder and car can appear to misfire under light load in 2nd gear at around 1,000rpm. Normally does it when cold, but also does it intermittently when up to operating temperature;
- very sluggish below 2,000rpm - once over the crest of this, it revs cleanly, sweetly and quickly towards the redline but the first 1,500rpm or so from idle feel like you're wading through mud.
- car is now getting to the point where it frequently refuses to kickdown unless the kickdown switch is depressed under the throttle. Normally pushing the accelerator to just above this point kicks down one gear but frequently I've pulled out of junctions at low rpm, steadily pushed the accelerator to just above the switch and it doesn't kick down - the car builds speed steadily (but not quickly) until it reaches 2k rpm and then flies.
- I'm also getting quite a nasty smell (like clutch) after a spirited drive.
I've not driven any other N62-equipped cars so I've got nothing to compare it to. But I can't imagine that it should feel sluggish below 2,000rpm. It wafts decently below it, but it's really quite difficult to get it smoothly gaining speed or to get it making good progress.
Car's going back into Sytner Chigwell (who so far have been great) on 2nd September for a few days for them to try and get to the bottom of it but I'd like to go in armed with some ideas of my own.
Any help / ideas would be much appreciated....
So, I've had my 550i for 10 months now and love it to bits. BUT, I'm really struggling to get it to A1 condition and the dealership is a bit puzzled currently as to what may be causing the below symptoms. I'm adamant it's not right, but the car's not generating any fault codes, so it appears the Techs won't / can't do much without something tangible to go on. So far it's had....
- readjustment of VANOS;
- 8 new spark plugs at last service (plus new oil & oil/air filters);
- 2 x new crank case breathers;
- update engine map;
- gearbox map reset.
Symptoms are as follows:
- on light throttle application and then to overrun there's a judder and car can appear to misfire under light load in 2nd gear at around 1,000rpm. Normally does it when cold, but also does it intermittently when up to operating temperature;
- very sluggish below 2,000rpm - once over the crest of this, it revs cleanly, sweetly and quickly towards the redline but the first 1,500rpm or so from idle feel like you're wading through mud.
- car is now getting to the point where it frequently refuses to kickdown unless the kickdown switch is depressed under the throttle. Normally pushing the accelerator to just above this point kicks down one gear but frequently I've pulled out of junctions at low rpm, steadily pushed the accelerator to just above the switch and it doesn't kick down - the car builds speed steadily (but not quickly) until it reaches 2k rpm and then flies.
- I'm also getting quite a nasty smell (like clutch) after a spirited drive.
I've not driven any other N62-equipped cars so I've got nothing to compare it to. But I can't imagine that it should feel sluggish below 2,000rpm. It wafts decently below it, but it's really quite difficult to get it smoothly gaining speed or to get it making good progress.
Car's going back into Sytner Chigwell (who so far have been great) on 2nd September for a few days for them to try and get to the bottom of it but I'd like to go in armed with some ideas of my own.
Any help / ideas would be much appreciated....
Whereabouts are you based? I live in South London but am actually travelling to Ipswich on Saturday for the day. I will be returning via the M11. Assuming that Chigwell is close to you I COULD possibly pop and see you in my e61 550i so that you could at least try another 550i auto just to see if it feels any different?? It is a car that I absolutely love to drive, but it is not an out and out sports car - there are too many maps conspiring against you to get that official 25mpg combined figure. If you drop it into first and spend all of your time above 4000rpm you notice the 370bhp but to be honest if you just drive it around in "D" or even "S" you don't. I haven't noticed a massive change at 2000rpm though - my engine is fairly progressive until 3000rpm and then it starts to sing a bit more...
BTW, there is a thread running in the M section called "e39 M5 at Munich Legends" in which the OP and one or two others are complaining about the lack of go in an e39 M5 below a certain number of revs - also complaining that the engine only really comes alive above 3000rpm and until that point plenty of diesels are or at least feel quicker. So you are not the only one to think a V8 should feel faster than it actually does from the get go.
"Wading through mud" does sound wrong though. My e39 530i felt like that, and yes - it did have vanos problems.
BTW, there is a thread running in the M section called "e39 M5 at Munich Legends" in which the OP and one or two others are complaining about the lack of go in an e39 M5 below a certain number of revs - also complaining that the engine only really comes alive above 3000rpm and until that point plenty of diesels are or at least feel quicker. So you are not the only one to think a V8 should feel faster than it actually does from the get go.
"Wading through mud" does sound wrong though. My e39 530i felt like that, and yes - it did have vanos problems.
Edited by jboy72 on Monday 12th August 14:30
Hi jboy72 - many thanks for your post and offer of a drive. Unfortunately I'm tied up this weekend with a few bits and bobs away from the house, otherwise I'd have definitely taken you up on your kind offer. I am indeed just off the M11 (Harlow jnc) so could've worked nicely.
I've courted some opinion from an E66 750Li owner on BMWLand who's had difficulties with his and gearbox issues resulting in a full replacement (albeit at 95k miles rather than my 55k).
I think there could also be an element of high expectation of the powerplant. I think it's a wonderful unit and I am in love with the car, but it does sound like there's a general expectation of them providing more power lower down, which I know is totally wrong for a nat asp unit. I'm just convinced that there is something bogging mine down and together with the lumpy running at cold and jerkiness on and off the throttle/overrun. We'll see.
In any event, I'll keep you posted on what Sytner come up with (if anything).
In the meantime - have a good roadtrip on Sat!
I've courted some opinion from an E66 750Li owner on BMWLand who's had difficulties with his and gearbox issues resulting in a full replacement (albeit at 95k miles rather than my 55k).
I think there could also be an element of high expectation of the powerplant. I think it's a wonderful unit and I am in love with the car, but it does sound like there's a general expectation of them providing more power lower down, which I know is totally wrong for a nat asp unit. I'm just convinced that there is something bogging mine down and together with the lumpy running at cold and jerkiness on and off the throttle/overrun. We'll see.
In any event, I'll keep you posted on what Sytner come up with (if anything).
In the meantime - have a good roadtrip on Sat!
To try and address the car bogging down at low revs why not get the car dyno'd, that would clearly show whnether this was a 'seat of the pants' diagnosis or a proper engine fault.
It should be fairly easy to find graphs of other 550's that don't suffer the symptoms you speak of to compare the results with.
It should be fairly easy to find graphs of other 550's that don't suffer the symptoms you speak of to compare the results with.
I had at least one coil pack replaced on my 545i by my specialist due to throwing codes, without being able to feel anything wrong. So I'd not expect it to be coil packs without codes being apparent.
However, my auto gearbox started to go into limp mode but it didn't appear to have any codes stored after being turned off. The only way the dealer could diagnose it was to leave it running and plug it into the diagnostics without turning off.
FWIW, my car had a smaller version of the same engine and never felt lacking from 1000rpm. It's pretty linear acceleration, and I was always under the impression that didn't change with the 4.8.
However, my auto gearbox started to go into limp mode but it didn't appear to have any codes stored after being turned off. The only way the dealer could diagnose it was to leave it running and plug it into the diagnostics without turning off.
FWIW, my car had a smaller version of the same engine and never felt lacking from 1000rpm. It's pretty linear acceleration, and I was always under the impression that didn't change with the 4.8.
Hi Spuff - No worries. My car is the pre-LCI so I am not sure if it would have been a "fair" contest. However I did drive my car the evening of your post, having read it, and with a view to seeing whether I detected any of your issues. I am afraid to say that I did not - I purposefully watched the revs and the pick up is pretty smooth and pretty strong from 1,000 rpm. I don't know about you but I do tend to leave my car in manual mode, even in town, and start off in 3rd gear - The upshot of this is that I only ever use 3rd or 4th gear for quite a lot of my driving. Clearly, the big car is NOT going to set your pulse racing or even seem particularly quick driven like that. But when I engaged 1st and 2nd to test the change up and into overrun, it bloody rockets off the blocks. You certainly do not mistake the car for a 4 or 6 cylinder n/a that is for sure.
Thanks chaps - this is much appreciated and just what I was looking for. Conclusive or not, the fact there are a few more ideas to put to Sytner chaps when it goes in is good.......
- MAF?
- Coil packs?
- Gearbox?
They're as keen as me to get it sorted so we'll see where we get to. By the sounds of it from others, it really shouldn't be so reticent to pull from low down (which is what I've always believed) so that makes me feel a bit better that I'm not being utterly neurotic over it!
- MAF?
- Coil packs?
- Gearbox?
They're as keen as me to get it sorted so we'll see where we get to. By the sounds of it from others, it really shouldn't be so reticent to pull from low down (which is what I've always believed) so that makes me feel a bit better that I'm not being utterly neurotic over it!
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