Disciplinery....
Discussion
Hi ladies and gents - long time lurker / first time poster. I have my padded pants and flame proof suit on, just in case!
A friend (yes, really) works for a parking company in a multistory car park. Over the last few months he has been having issues with the company in general - for example turning up at work to find that they have changed his shifts with out telling him (so that he shouldn't be in work, or that he should be at work but isn't etc), changed the rota so that he was on permanent nights, not given him a copy of his T&C's or contract etc, despite him asking. A couple of months ago the entire team received a letter from management stating that "following our meeting earlier today you are hereby advised that...." and listed lots of changes in working practices (nothing major, just different 'patrol strategies', no radios on in the office etc). My friend had never had this meeting - only a few people had. My friend raised some concerns with HR over the rota changing and other bits, who kicked a few behinds I think. He has also been off work with stress / depression from these on going issues recently, but is now back at work.
Over the last few days he has received a letter informing him that he is subject to a disciplinary investigation for: unsatisfactory work (he has never been spoken to about any unsatisfactory work), serious insubordination, failure to follow correct procedures, failure to comply with relevant statutory requirements. His meeting is at the start of next month. He has asked for further information and the company have refused to elaborate, stating that they don't need to provide any further information.
Can the company legally pursue this without eliciting further information so that he can attempt to gather any evidence in his defence? I have advised him to take someone in to the meeting with him, and as there is no union at his place of work, he is looking in to taking someone from outside of the company with him. What would the PH collective suggest (other than find something else - I've tried to tell him that). I've also said that if it does go a bit pear shaped he should claim that the management are homophobic and see them squirm....
Thanks guys and gals.
A friend (yes, really) works for a parking company in a multistory car park. Over the last few months he has been having issues with the company in general - for example turning up at work to find that they have changed his shifts with out telling him (so that he shouldn't be in work, or that he should be at work but isn't etc), changed the rota so that he was on permanent nights, not given him a copy of his T&C's or contract etc, despite him asking. A couple of months ago the entire team received a letter from management stating that "following our meeting earlier today you are hereby advised that...." and listed lots of changes in working practices (nothing major, just different 'patrol strategies', no radios on in the office etc). My friend had never had this meeting - only a few people had. My friend raised some concerns with HR over the rota changing and other bits, who kicked a few behinds I think. He has also been off work with stress / depression from these on going issues recently, but is now back at work.
Over the last few days he has received a letter informing him that he is subject to a disciplinary investigation for: unsatisfactory work (he has never been spoken to about any unsatisfactory work), serious insubordination, failure to follow correct procedures, failure to comply with relevant statutory requirements. His meeting is at the start of next month. He has asked for further information and the company have refused to elaborate, stating that they don't need to provide any further information.
Can the company legally pursue this without eliciting further information so that he can attempt to gather any evidence in his defence? I have advised him to take someone in to the meeting with him, and as there is no union at his place of work, he is looking in to taking someone from outside of the company with him. What would the PH collective suggest (other than find something else - I've tried to tell him that). I've also said that if it does go a bit pear shaped he should claim that the management are homophobic and see them squirm....
Thanks guys and gals.
TurricanII said:
How long has he been there?
Potentially irrelevant if he is being subject to detriments due to his raising complaints about their conduct.OP what does he want to do?
It is correct that he is entitled to the evidence (i.e. to know the case against him) with time to prepare for it. Does the letter mention there is any capacity to dismiss as a result of this meeting?
Turrican - He has been there for about a year or so
JasandJules - I'm not sure what he wants to do - if it was me I'd be finding something else, for my health if nothing else, however, I feel that he wants to fight it as the management seem (and I'm sumising from what I've been told) completely imncompetant. The letter states:
"RE: Investigation Meeting
You are required to attend an investigation meeting on the XX September 2013 at XX:XX hrs.
The purpose of the meeting will be to carry out an investigation in to the following allegations:
Unsatisfactory and unacceptable performance of duties
Failure to comply with statutory requirements
Serious insubordination
Failure to follow the correct procedures
I will be attending the meeting together with XXXXXXXX who will be taking minutes of the meeting.
If you have any questions about the meeting, please don not hesitate to contact me on XXXXX
Yours sincerely
XXXXXX"
JasandJules - I'm not sure what he wants to do - if it was me I'd be finding something else, for my health if nothing else, however, I feel that he wants to fight it as the management seem (and I'm sumising from what I've been told) completely imncompetant. The letter states:
"RE: Investigation Meeting
You are required to attend an investigation meeting on the XX September 2013 at XX:XX hrs.
The purpose of the meeting will be to carry out an investigation in to the following allegations:
Unsatisfactory and unacceptable performance of duties
Failure to comply with statutory requirements
Serious insubordination
Failure to follow the correct procedures
I will be attending the meeting together with XXXXXXXX who will be taking minutes of the meeting.
If you have any questions about the meeting, please don not hesitate to contact me on XXXXX
Yours sincerely
XXXXXX"
Jasandjules said:
Potentially irrelevant if he is being subject to detriments due to his raising complaints about their conduct.
Cheers for that nugget! Any employer stupid enough to discipline for such things needs a legal slap, especially when they can dismiss for no reason if they choose within two years. Although, OP, I too suggest that your friend should look for a better employer if they have been signed off for employment related stress within year one!!shouldbworking said:
I can only imagine the horrific stress that must be involved in ones daily duties as a car park attendant.
Oh I don't know, if he's anything like the one that was giving me a ticket yesterday lunchtime. I knew I was 10 mins over, no worries, I'd over run a meeting. He had just finished writing out the ticket. I wandered over and genuinely pleasantly asked if I'd just been over, you know, to be nice. Afterall the guy is just doing his job and got me bang to rights.He looked at me like I was a 10ft tall green alien, then refused to engage in any kind of response or direct eye contact and then scuttled off down the line of cars.
He was still looking over at me all shifty 5 mins later as I was reading the ticket and checking how much I'd have to pay.
It was really strange, I still think he might have been a touch simple or unhinged.
RichwiththeS2000 said:
How does one get time off for stress/depression?
I have those things literally every day but still turn up :/
Being a bit down is not depression.I have those things literally every day but still turn up :/
If you are genuinely stressed or depressed to the detriment of your health and well-being, go see a doctor.
If you are of morally dubious character and fancy some time off, it is fairly easy to describe the correct symptoms to a doctor.
He doesn't give out tickets - it's one of those car parks with the pay on foot systems so he basically fixes that when it goes wrong! As for the stress / depression comments - of course it's stressful - I mean they are no longer allowed to listen to the radio in the office!!
Back on topic - any more advice I can pass along (other than 'get a new job / man up' etc?)?
Back on topic - any more advice I can pass along (other than 'get a new job / man up' etc?)?
He has no right to take anyone into a meeting who isn't a union official or a work colleague - of course they might let him, but he has no right to do it.
Of course as an unprotected employee if they want him to leave there is little of substance he can do about it, sure they should still follow correct process, but they may well be doing that anyway, but unless he can show some discrimination any remedies are minimal even if they get it wrong.
Of course as an unprotected employee if they want him to leave there is little of substance he can do about it, sure they should still follow correct process, but they may well be doing that anyway, but unless he can show some discrimination any remedies are minimal even if they get it wrong.
TurricanII said:
Cheers for that nugget! !!
For whistle-blowing or discrimination there is no 2 year (previously 1 year) period of employment required.In fact for discrimination you might not even be an employee, a person interviewing for a potential role is also protected.
OP, as this is an investigatory meeting he will plainly need to be given the full details of each allegation so he can bring along his evidence etc.
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