Setting off in advance of lights changing...
Discussion
Folks,
I am certain I may come out of this as the villain, however...
As a cyclist, I stop at red lights 99% of the time. Always when there are cars behind/around me, because I feel the need to portray a positive image and, well, it's the law. However, on my route to work there's a roundabout:
Old Market
Where I stop, however slightly proud of the stop line. I wait until the lights change for the "opposing" carriageway and go then, because it's far safer to be well ahead of the other cars turning left, etc. It's possible I am slightly "red" whilst doing so but I think the phases are fairly quick so it probably doesn't look it.
On an unfamiliar route home today I stopped at the lights here:
Bond St
I know this junction as a driver. It's a nightmare as a cyclist as to go straight on you need to take the middle of the lanes and if you've got cars around it tends to lead to conflict. Cars have to change lanes, etc. So, I waited at the ASL and went when the pedestrian lights on our section went red (And obviously nothing coming from right-Or indeed pedestrians). I set off, so I wasn't in the way of the other cars. I fully accept in hindsight that actually the phases are probably pretty long there and it might have looked like a blatant red lighter- However I'd obviously stopped in the first place and my reasons for getting away first were pure.
After a few metres I noticed a pale green Mercedes CLK hooting at me from behind, the driver then went past giving me the w
ker sign. I decided to see what his problem was, and caught up at a set of lights to have a chat.
No aggression on either part, but it led to a spirited conversation in which he said I'd gone through a red light, and wouldn't listen to my explanation of why I'd stopped, then set off when I did. He remarked that he was a "cyclist too" but in the end the conversation became rather unproductive. He was wearing an Addison Lee polo-type shirt and I may have commented unfavourably on the attitudes of cabbies however he remarked on the fact that the boss was rather wealthy... I thought for a brief moment it was John Griffin however a Google search reveals that he doesn't have such a Northern accent...
Am I the knob? Surely stopping at the red light is the main thing? I never advocate red light jumping but in some cases, is getting away first/as the lights change not sensible?
I am certain I may come out of this as the villain, however...
As a cyclist, I stop at red lights 99% of the time. Always when there are cars behind/around me, because I feel the need to portray a positive image and, well, it's the law. However, on my route to work there's a roundabout:
Old Market
Where I stop, however slightly proud of the stop line. I wait until the lights change for the "opposing" carriageway and go then, because it's far safer to be well ahead of the other cars turning left, etc. It's possible I am slightly "red" whilst doing so but I think the phases are fairly quick so it probably doesn't look it.
On an unfamiliar route home today I stopped at the lights here:
Bond St
I know this junction as a driver. It's a nightmare as a cyclist as to go straight on you need to take the middle of the lanes and if you've got cars around it tends to lead to conflict. Cars have to change lanes, etc. So, I waited at the ASL and went when the pedestrian lights on our section went red (And obviously nothing coming from right-Or indeed pedestrians). I set off, so I wasn't in the way of the other cars. I fully accept in hindsight that actually the phases are probably pretty long there and it might have looked like a blatant red lighter- However I'd obviously stopped in the first place and my reasons for getting away first were pure.
After a few metres I noticed a pale green Mercedes CLK hooting at me from behind, the driver then went past giving me the w
ker sign. I decided to see what his problem was, and caught up at a set of lights to have a chat.No aggression on either part, but it led to a spirited conversation in which he said I'd gone through a red light, and wouldn't listen to my explanation of why I'd stopped, then set off when I did. He remarked that he was a "cyclist too" but in the end the conversation became rather unproductive. He was wearing an Addison Lee polo-type shirt and I may have commented unfavourably on the attitudes of cabbies however he remarked on the fact that the boss was rather wealthy... I thought for a brief moment it was John Griffin however a Google search reveals that he doesn't have such a Northern accent...
Am I the knob? Surely stopping at the red light is the main thing? I never advocate red light jumping but in some cases, is getting away first/as the lights change not sensible?
Makes perfect sense, and obviously appears to be the safer (for you) and more convenient (for car drivers) option.
However, to play devil's advocate:
1. Technically what you did is illegal, and to some people THAT is all that matters. (Obviously they would never dream of breaking the law in their car....oh, no.....
2. An emergency services vehicle may see the fact that the traffic is still held up under a red and rush through, potentially without sirens, blah, blah, yada, yada.....
However, to play devil's advocate:
1. Technically what you did is illegal, and to some people THAT is all that matters. (Obviously they would never dream of breaking the law in their car....oh, no.....
2. An emergency services vehicle may see the fact that the traffic is still held up under a red and rush through, potentially without sirens, blah, blah, yada, yada.....
Hmm, difficult one really. I'd never do it where there was danger/oncoming traffic but it seems stupendously petty to get upset about it when you can see that the cyclist has stopped and is just getting going slightly ahead of time.
If nothing else, I have one-sided clipless pedals so it's safer to be clipped in and moving first rather than trying to give it beans straight off, missing and smashing my nuts in front of looming traffic
My track stands are improving however to eliminate this problem!
If nothing else, I have one-sided clipless pedals so it's safer to be clipped in and moving first rather than trying to give it beans straight off, missing and smashing my nuts in front of looming traffic
My track stands are improving however to eliminate this problem!littleandy0410 said:
Makes perfect sense, and obviously appears to be the safer (for you) and more convenient (for car drivers) option.
However, to play devil's advocate:
1. Technically what you did is illegal, and to some people THAT is all that matters. (Obviously they would never dream of breaking the law in their car....oh, no.....
I'll be amazed if there is a single car driver who sticks to the 30mph speed limit 100% of the time, infact I think most driver break the LAW everytime they drive. But I would personally never get in any argument with a driver when I'm on a bike, regardless of the law/incident drivers are surrounded in 1.5 tons of metal and as a cyclist you will always come off worse in any collison. Best to ignore them and just get on with your ride. However, to play devil's advocate:
1. Technically what you did is illegal, and to some people THAT is all that matters. (Obviously they would never dream of breaking the law in their car....oh, no.....
I understand the safety thing and I have done it my self before. Especially if I am at lights that do not change if I am sat there on my own, but at the end of the day you wouldn't jump red lights in a car so why should people be happy about you doing it on a bike?
If you jump lights early or late you should expect someone to call you a wker. Brush it off and hope the police to catch you next time.
If you jump lights early or late you should expect someone to call you a w
ker. Brush it off and hope the police to catch you next time. carreauchompeur said:
He was wearing an Addison Lee polo-type shirt
@ one of that shower of s* lecturing other road users for committing traffic offences. I'm sorry but I don't get the point of these sorts of questions. There's a junction I used to have on my commute where setting of early was sometimes easier and safer. Sometimes I'd get shouted at, sometimes I wouldn't.
Some people will say it's not a big deal, some will say a red is a red and cyclists should obey all traffic laws. I agree with both positions and I imagine you are probably sufficently aware of the road around you to make a decision that concerns your safety but in terms of illegality has very little consequence to anyone else.
- some of them are probably quite nice but as a company of drivers I have no problem generalising them as a menace.
garrykiller said:
I understand the safety thing and I have done it my self before. Especially if I am at lights that do not change if I am sat there on my own, but at the end of the day you wouldn't jump red lights in a car so why should people be happy about you doing it on a bike?
Because in the car I am away ahead of the traffic most of the time, and am unlikely to wobble/fall over in front of or otherwise delay the following traffic.garrykiller said:
Brush it off and hope the police to catch you next time.
I have never had a problem setting off quickly enough ahead of cars when the lights turn green.
1. I have no neutral to deselect, or handbrake to deactivate.
2. I've got a few yards head start.
3. My eyes are focused on the lights (both mine and cross lanes or red/green man) instead of the radio, phone, sun-visor mirror.
4. I can do a quick launch time after time without screeching tyres or burning my clutch.
It would have to take someone doing a launch-control style start from the lights to be held up by me at the lights.
Of course, if you're one of those cyclists who 'forgets' to change down on the approach to a red light and leaves the chain on the tiniest sprocket. And if you spend an age trying to clip back in again, then you only have yourself to blame for getting swamped by the traffic behind.
1. I have no neutral to deselect, or handbrake to deactivate.
2. I've got a few yards head start.
3. My eyes are focused on the lights (both mine and cross lanes or red/green man) instead of the radio, phone, sun-visor mirror.
4. I can do a quick launch time after time without screeching tyres or burning my clutch.
It would have to take someone doing a launch-control style start from the lights to be held up by me at the lights.
Of course, if you're one of those cyclists who 'forgets' to change down on the approach to a red light and leaves the chain on the tiniest sprocket. And if you spend an age trying to clip back in again, then you only have yourself to blame for getting swamped by the traffic behind.
oyster said:
And if you spend an age trying to clip back in again, then you only have yourself to blame for getting swamped by the traffic behind.
Those kn*bbers are really starting to annoy me now - not least because they are often in posession of all the "gear" and have pushed to the front before failing to clip in and, rather than getting clear of the junction before trying again, just stop pedalling and come to an almost halt, stopping everyone they've just pushed past.OP, personally I'd "take the lane" to avoid conflict with turning vehicles and go as soon as your lights turn. At the end of the day, irrational hatred of cyclists is just that - irrational - but in my view it's best not to feed it if possible.
Yep, sounds reasonable. It was only really because that particular bit of tarmac's a bit of a nightmare that I went earlier than normal, don't think it warranted the incessant following, beeping and wker signs though 
I "Take the lane" with the roundabout above because nearly all of the inside traffic turns left, the advantage of going on the changing light is marginal but does help to avoid conflict.
ker signs though I "Take the lane" with the roundabout above because nearly all of the inside traffic turns left, the advantage of going on the changing light is marginal but does help to avoid conflict.
I know the junction / roundabout you are talking about... in fact, my office overlooks the roundabout.
I know how busy it gets during rush-hour, so anything that we can do as cyclists to avoid exposing ourselves to danger is surely a good thing.
'Jumping' lights, or setting off just before they change from red shouldn't anger anybody behind you as mentioned before, after all, you are likely to come off worse if jumping a light into oncoming traffic with right-of-way on a green light.... but it does anger some people.
If it was me, I don't think I would have risked stopping for a discussion with the driver... you never know what sort of psyco is sitting behind the wheel, late for work, tiered after getting up early and sitting in traffic for an hour. I'm a 6ft skinny accountant with a young family, so I'd try to keep my opinions to myself!
I commute into work every day (including going along Whitladies, down Park St, around the 'centre' outside the Hippodrome etc), so it's almost a daily occurrence where somebody in a vehicle manages to do something to increase the risk to myself. I just try to anticipate that they'll do something stupid and stop thinking about trying to beat PBs on Strava down Park St!
I know how busy it gets during rush-hour, so anything that we can do as cyclists to avoid exposing ourselves to danger is surely a good thing.
'Jumping' lights, or setting off just before they change from red shouldn't anger anybody behind you as mentioned before, after all, you are likely to come off worse if jumping a light into oncoming traffic with right-of-way on a green light.... but it does anger some people.
If it was me, I don't think I would have risked stopping for a discussion with the driver... you never know what sort of psyco is sitting behind the wheel, late for work, tiered after getting up early and sitting in traffic for an hour. I'm a 6ft skinny accountant with a young family, so I'd try to keep my opinions to myself!
I commute into work every day (including going along Whitladies, down Park St, around the 'centre' outside the Hippodrome etc), so it's almost a daily occurrence where somebody in a vehicle manages to do something to increase the risk to myself. I just try to anticipate that they'll do something stupid and stop thinking about trying to beat PBs on Strava down Park St!
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