Second hand bargains
Discussion
I've always been a hifi and film fan and in the past had a fairly nice Marantz and Mission set up in a dedicated room. All pretty much entry level stuff but very enjoyable nonetheless. For various reasons I sold my kit and I'm now down to a Denon integrated unit with q acoustics speakers for music (really great this set up) duties and a Panasonic plasma and Sony bluray player for films.
I'd really like to build a home cinema surround set up back up now I have the space.
What I've always noted, and the point of this thread, is that hifi kit is never worth what you pay for it new. It is really just worth the latest technology factor. So what second hand bargains are there out on the Internet? What do you AV aficionados "watch" on eBay? What are the most sort after items and the biggest bargains?
I'd really like to build a home cinema surround set up back up now I have the space.
What I've always noted, and the point of this thread, is that hifi kit is never worth what you pay for it new. It is really just worth the latest technology factor. So what second hand bargains are there out on the Internet? What do you AV aficionados "watch" on eBay? What are the most sort after items and the biggest bargains?
Arcam kit always fetches decent money on ebay (provided the seller can string a decent description together and sounds like an enthusiast), the older Alpha range in my opinion would make a very decent budget system (compared to spending similar money in Richer Sounds) bought wisely.
B&W speakers always seem to fetch good money too - I'm trying to grab a pair of DM603s to replace my old Mission 734s, but whenever decent looking ones come up for sale it's always at the wrong end of the country!
B&W speakers always seem to fetch good money too - I'm trying to grab a pair of DM603s to replace my old Mission 734s, but whenever decent looking ones come up for sale it's always at the wrong end of the country!
Receiver wise, I would look at a big Pioneer or Denon. Some of their higher end models are bargains now and do perform very well.
As for source components, from my experience it is best to buy new with a warranty. I have had two high-end DVD players fail and the cost of repairs and availability of parts is an issue.
Speaker wise, B&W are very good as mentioned but can hold their value surprisingly well. Monitor Audio are another one to look out for.
AV Forums has an excellent classified area where the prices are generally pretty good.
Chris
As for source components, from my experience it is best to buy new with a warranty. I have had two high-end DVD players fail and the cost of repairs and availability of parts is an issue.
Speaker wise, B&W are very good as mentioned but can hold their value surprisingly well. Monitor Audio are another one to look out for.
AV Forums has an excellent classified area where the prices are generally pretty good.
Chris
Hello,
Yes, I'd agree that the AV Forums are definitely a good hunting ground.
Regarding used items, the reason they seem to drop so quickly is simply amatter of margins, which in Hi-Fi tend to be much larger than pretty much anything elce in consumer electronics. Source components generally carry a 25% - 35% margin, amps are a similar margin with speakers going up to 40%. The real killer is in the accessories arena where 50% is quite common. The only areas where you don't see this kind of margin are in video components and AV Receivers, where the margins can be as low as 15%, ditto DVD and Blu-Ray players from the far east.
In terms of great brands to look out for, you can never go wrong with Bryston, their 20 year transferable warranty is the best in the industry, and trust me, they do not get many claims. Likewise PMC speakers are another very good product with a transferable warranty, I think it's 10 years. Arcam is another good buy used along with Audiolab, which is very well built at the price point. B&W can be a good buy but their prices drop pretty quickly, likewise Kef, and Celestion offers great value, especially their 'A' series speakers which were incredibly good for the money when they were relased, used they are hard to beat.
I have made a number of purchases used and have never suffered buyers remorse. Most specialist Hi-Fi equipment tends to be purchased by enthusiasts who treat their equipment with a great deal of care, so it's surprising just how much equipment is in as new condition. The only thing I'd look out for is for Hi-Fi which has been in homes with children, as dings, especially on speakers, tend to be more prevalent.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Dave
Yes, I'd agree that the AV Forums are definitely a good hunting ground.
Regarding used items, the reason they seem to drop so quickly is simply amatter of margins, which in Hi-Fi tend to be much larger than pretty much anything elce in consumer electronics. Source components generally carry a 25% - 35% margin, amps are a similar margin with speakers going up to 40%. The real killer is in the accessories arena where 50% is quite common. The only areas where you don't see this kind of margin are in video components and AV Receivers, where the margins can be as low as 15%, ditto DVD and Blu-Ray players from the far east.
In terms of great brands to look out for, you can never go wrong with Bryston, their 20 year transferable warranty is the best in the industry, and trust me, they do not get many claims. Likewise PMC speakers are another very good product with a transferable warranty, I think it's 10 years. Arcam is another good buy used along with Audiolab, which is very well built at the price point. B&W can be a good buy but their prices drop pretty quickly, likewise Kef, and Celestion offers great value, especially their 'A' series speakers which were incredibly good for the money when they were relased, used they are hard to beat.
I have made a number of purchases used and have never suffered buyers remorse. Most specialist Hi-Fi equipment tends to be purchased by enthusiasts who treat their equipment with a great deal of care, so it's surprising just how much equipment is in as new condition. The only thing I'd look out for is for Hi-Fi which has been in homes with children, as dings, especially on speakers, tend to be more prevalent.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Dave
I've bought various bits of hifi over the years and apart from my first system, none of it has been new. My first serious set up was a second hand Cyrus CD player and amplifier from a small but good hifi shop and the pair was about the same price as one item new.
Had to downsize for a while but ended up buying more recently, was considering a few options but ended up with another Cyrus integrated plus a power amp, no CD player this time as I run everything lossless from the computer and a DAC. The amplifiers I've got now came to a total of about £400 from ebay, plus a pair of KEF floorstanding speakers for £200. All in all a good (to me) sounding system for a fraction of the new price.
I'd struggle to buy new hifi now, when you look at what you can buy second hand compared to the new price you're taking a big step down in quality just to have something new. As long as it's been looked after it's fine.
I'd quite like some B&Ws but they hold their value incredibly well compared to the competition. There are bargains to be had with amplifiers though: Musical Fidelity, Audiolab, Meridian and Arcam gear is all way below their new price. I know some of it might be getting on a bit now though but my parents now have my old Cyrus gear and it must be between 10-20 years old now and still sounds fine.
Had to downsize for a while but ended up buying more recently, was considering a few options but ended up with another Cyrus integrated plus a power amp, no CD player this time as I run everything lossless from the computer and a DAC. The amplifiers I've got now came to a total of about £400 from ebay, plus a pair of KEF floorstanding speakers for £200. All in all a good (to me) sounding system for a fraction of the new price.
I'd struggle to buy new hifi now, when you look at what you can buy second hand compared to the new price you're taking a big step down in quality just to have something new. As long as it's been looked after it's fine.
I'd quite like some B&Ws but they hold their value incredibly well compared to the competition. There are bargains to be had with amplifiers though: Musical Fidelity, Audiolab, Meridian and Arcam gear is all way below their new price. I know some of it might be getting on a bit now though but my parents now have my old Cyrus gear and it must be between 10-20 years old now and still sounds fine.
Pretty much my whole AV setup is made up from secondhand purchases, bought from AV forums' classifieds, I don't use eBay myself. Mostly Arcam and PMC, so decent brands too, often with warranty remaining. I've got some cracking bargains over the years such as a 3.5k processor for 800 that still had 3 years left on it's warranty. I upgraded from the base model of PMC speakers to a larger model which new would have been £800 more, for a total of £50 once I'd sold my old speakers.
The only things I buy new are displays; my projector and various TVs since I could repair speakers, subs and amps, but not a TV or projector. Projectors in particular are really bad at holding value too, so I tend to buy these with a view that the money is written off...I just make sure I chose well and calibrate to get the most out them (and keep them 3-4 years). Given some of the issues with certain models, then IMHO a used model (often without warranty since they aren't often transferable) is too much of a gamble. A fault with the optical block or similar would make it a write off. As much as I'd like an old, but higher end model, I did 'play safe' by going for a new, but bottom of the range JVC X35, since £2.5k is too much to risk throwing away given the previous range's issues.
I once added up the new cost of my system and it came to over £25k, yet I paid a small fraction of that. Had I bought new I would have a much more modest system that may even struggle in the room I use it in since I like to run just below reference level.
The only things I buy new are displays; my projector and various TVs since I could repair speakers, subs and amps, but not a TV or projector. Projectors in particular are really bad at holding value too, so I tend to buy these with a view that the money is written off...I just make sure I chose well and calibrate to get the most out them (and keep them 3-4 years). Given some of the issues with certain models, then IMHO a used model (often without warranty since they aren't often transferable) is too much of a gamble. A fault with the optical block or similar would make it a write off. As much as I'd like an old, but higher end model, I did 'play safe' by going for a new, but bottom of the range JVC X35, since £2.5k is too much to risk throwing away given the previous range's issues.
I once added up the new cost of my system and it came to over £25k, yet I paid a small fraction of that. Had I bought new I would have a much more modest system that may even struggle in the room I use it in since I like to run just below reference level.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Friday 30th August 08:37
I've recently done just this and built up a nice entry-level hi-fi system from the bay of e. I had an Arcam Alpha 5+ integrated amp from years ago so I thought I would match against that and buy a modern pair of standmounts as I think that speaker tech has moved on somewhat.
Arcam Alpha 7SE CD player, £80.
Arcam Alpha 9 Power Amp, £110.
Roksan Kandy K2, £250.
Speaker stands, wire and interconnects, about another £130.
Ultimately I decided to leverage my MP3 collection so I replaced the Alpha 5+ with a Cambridge Audo Stream Magic 6. This is now the preamp and gives me access to my MP3 library and internet radio, and also acts as a replacement superior DAC for the CD player.
I must say I'm very impressed with the end result for the money spent. I'm on the lookout for another Alpha 9 poweramp so I can bi-amp, but they seem to be going for a bit more these days.
These days at the low/mid end I think you really only need a streaming preamp and a really good poweramp & speaker setup. Even the CD spinner is redundant. You just need a good DAC. In theory the software to do upsampling and interpolation isn't that hard, a smartphone could do it, it's just a question of the integrity of the signal path.
There's an argument for the purists at the high end to stay entirely in the analogue domain with their reel to reels or vinyl, but for everyone else the source is already in the digital domain so you can't improve on the original signal, all you can do is to try to treat the data as sympathetically as possible.
Arcam Alpha 7SE CD player, £80.
Arcam Alpha 9 Power Amp, £110.
Roksan Kandy K2, £250.
Speaker stands, wire and interconnects, about another £130.
Ultimately I decided to leverage my MP3 collection so I replaced the Alpha 5+ with a Cambridge Audo Stream Magic 6. This is now the preamp and gives me access to my MP3 library and internet radio, and also acts as a replacement superior DAC for the CD player.
I must say I'm very impressed with the end result for the money spent. I'm on the lookout for another Alpha 9 poweramp so I can bi-amp, but they seem to be going for a bit more these days.
These days at the low/mid end I think you really only need a streaming preamp and a really good poweramp & speaker setup. Even the CD spinner is redundant. You just need a good DAC. In theory the software to do upsampling and interpolation isn't that hard, a smartphone could do it, it's just a question of the integrity of the signal path.
There's an argument for the purists at the high end to stay entirely in the analogue domain with their reel to reels or vinyl, but for everyone else the source is already in the digital domain so you can't improve on the original signal, all you can do is to try to treat the data as sympathetically as possible.
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