MX5 or DC2R or other? light cars with lots of grip

[zaibatsu]

Just joined up after a while lurking, some great discussion here.

Interested in thoughts on what you guys think are the best road cars for cornering performance / grip in the ~1000kg weight range, priced reasonably. Not interested in big power numbers, but I'd consider 0-100 in 7s a minimum. Wishbones all round would be good.

Anyone (after driving both) have thoughts between these two (MX5/DC2R) for ultimate grip / performance, or alternate suggestions? Preferably cars that are >1995, and not too rare. I've vaguely also considered the Elise/Exige (dropping in price), and the old Lancer Evos (VI TME) as a wildcard. The Evo seems heavy and a far too attention grabby as a street car, but the thought of trying something new (AWD) is exciting.

Some quick background on my current garage:
1: 1280kg RWD coupe, Strut front / Multilink (wishbones + toe arm) rear, HLSD, 180kw Turbo
2: 1050kg FWD hatch, Strut front / Torsion beam + trailing arm rear, no LSD, 125kw NA, ESP

I've left out the brand/model on purpose but hopefully my descriptions sum them up. Those specs are all stock so you can probably guess anyway.

Pros / cons of my RWD:
- Better feel under cornering, throttle input allows tightening radius
- Car is heavier but chassis is stiffer so there's more feedback
- Heavier car is more difficult to sort out if you push past the limit
- Less experience driving RWD and am less confident driving at the limit, no ESP to catch

Pros / cons of my FWD
- Worse feel under cornering, can unweight/unload to front wheel when powering out of tight corners and thus runs out of usable power before grip, lack of LSD contributes
- Less chassis feedback, harder to feel what is happening
- Lighter car inspires confidence to push right to the edge often
- ESP catches car when pushed past the limit, makes minor brake-only corrections at limit
- More experience driving FWD so I can usually drive faster and more confidently

Appreciate any general discussion / thoughts. I'm just considering possible future replacements, and have noticed it's hard to find light cars with good suspension setups these days, perhaps I've missed some obvious choices.

Edited by zaibatsu on Saturday 31st August 16:09

[zaibatsu]

I should add that the ESP (stability control) in the hatch is a Bosch system. It is incredibly well tuned and is very un-intrusive, will allow some oversteer to the point where I have to correct by decreasing lock or occasionally even countersteering. For reference the car slides neutrally or oversteers at the limit by default.

I have come to love the system so much, as I can take the car right to the limit, knowing that 9/10 it'll be "daddy just caught me" if I mess up. If you work with it (i.e. try to drive the car at the limit with good technique, rather than pushing well beyond it) then when/if the system engages it will do so at a high frequency and low amplitude, with little to no power cutting.

Sadly I've noticed a lot of systems aren't like this. I got a little excited when I saw the NC MX5 had stability control @ ~1100kg, but my dream was shattered immediately when I saw this: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showpost.php?p=4682269&a...

[danp]

why do you want max grip?

mr2 mk3 is very good fun (and grippy) for the money.

[s m]

A GT86 pulls 1G and is quite light

[soad]

s m said:

A GT86 pulls 1G and is quite light

Probably out of his budget. Out of mine anyway.

[The Vambo]

Nissan S15 Silvia, & Renaultsport Clio 172?

[Speed_Demon]

The Vambo said:

Nissan S15 Silvia, & Renaultsport Clio 172?

Exactly what I thought, 172 cup though, better yet, 182 trophy.

[The Vambo]

Speed_Demon said:

Exactly what I thought, 172 cup though, better yet, 182 trophy.

Nah, that would be 1090kg & 134Kw

[Bonefish Blues]

Speed_Demon said:

Exactly what I thought, 172 cup though, better yet, 182 trophy.

Is the right answer IME.

I always remember the corner just outside Bridgenorth where I had brain fade and entered maybe 20mph faster than I should. fk me all I could do was I hold on (any input and I was a goner) - and so did the car.

[The Vambo]

Bonefish Blues said:

Is the right answer IME.

I always remember the corner just outside Bridgenorth where I had brain fade and entered maybe 20mph faster than I should. fk me all I could do was I hold on (any input and I was a goner) - and so did the car.

Sorry, I meant that I think that is what he already owns.

[Bonefish Blues]

The Vambo said:

Bonefish Blues said:

Is the right answer IME.

I always remember the corner just outside Bridgenorth where I had brain fade and entered maybe 20mph faster than I should. fk me all I could do was I hold on (any input and I was a goner) - and so did the car.

Sorry, I meant that I think that is what he already owns.

If so, OP may have come to the right conclusion already IMHO

[zaibatsu]

Anyone care to fuel the DC2R / MX5 fire? Will the MX5 have higher cornering limits (if given the same power / tyres) thanks to 50/50 and RWD? Or will it take a better than average RWD driver to milk the advantage?

No desire for the GT86/BRZ, slower than both current toys (along with a 3-4k torque curve hole) without bringing much extra to the table.
Unless it's AWD, I'm more interested in things much closer to 1000kg, wondering if I've missed candidates. Pretty firm on wishbones all round also.

The Vambo said:

S15 & 172?

Ding ding.

[s m]

A cheap Elise then perhaps - over 1g in a big Autocar test a decade back to find the grippiest cars. A 172 was about 0.9g in comparison

[Richair]

I've owned both cars in question and have driven both in anger on track and in fact I still have my mk1 JDM mx5 (VR-ltd with all the nice oily bits).

Both cars are up there amongst the best I've owned; the Integra is a great package straight of out the box. Stick a set of decent pads on it and its track ready and is brilliant fun both on the road and on circuit. I had mine as my only car and it was utterly reliable and very practical.

But, my Eunos is hands down the most fun car I've owned to date albeit now in modified form. As standard they're fun, but leave you wanting in the power and sharpness departments. But stick some decent suspension, additional bracing and tyres on it (but don't over-tyre it!) and they have you grinning ear to ear, particularly give how little they cost.

I tend not to keep cars very long as I get bored easy (I only had my dc2 for 5 months before selling up for an integrale), but I've had the Eunos 2 years now and I have no intention of selling it. I've now got all he parts together to build it a proper engine, a lovely nasp screamer

I'd say if you want something to modify and develop, buy an mx5. But if you want something to jump in and drive then a dc2 or Elise/vx220 would be a better option.