Help me pick my next Land Rover

[300bhp/ton]

I'm thinking of upgrading the family vehicle to a newer Land Rover of some kind.

Budget would be circa £10k, however within the scope of this budget I'd like to get some new off road tyres, performance exhaust (for the V8's) and a remap (for the diesel).


Have seen a friends RRS off roading a few times now and it's really impressed me, but RRS's seem to be just out of budget.

So the choices are a D3 or a L322 RR.


MPG isn't a huge concern, however if I'm going the diesel route I'd prefer a manual. I'd only be considering air suspension & Terrain Response equipped D3's and to my surprise V8 ones seem more pricey than diesels. 7 seats would be handy, but not essential and certainly no deal breaker.


Really I think this comes down to off road ability. It will be used off road. The L322 lacks the branding of "Terrain Response", but it does have 4 wheel TCS and HDC. Technically does anyone know if it really differs in ability to the D3 off road? What's ground clearance and wheel travel like in comparison?


I have driven several D3's and I like how they go. I did go in a L322, but this was back in 2003, so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Not driven either off road however.

[camel_landy]

Driven both in anger and I'd go for the D3 over an older L322. The suspension setup is better (some of the L322s didn't have the cross-link valve), the Traction Control systems are more advanced, the bodyshell is slightly narrower and overall a far more practical car. If you can find one, get yourself a D3 with the rear e-Diff too...

Also, forget the idea of a manual, get the auto. You get more control with the auto and if you really _must_ drive it manually, you have the option of 'Command Shift'.

M

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

Driven both in anger and I'd go for the D3 over an older L322. The suspension setup is better (some of the L322s didn't have the cross-link valve), the Traction Control systems are more advanced, the bodyshell is slightly narrower and overall a far more practical car. If you can find one, get yourself a D3 with the rear e-Diff too...

Thanks. Do you know any specifics on the cross link setup on L322's? I thought they all had it, or is it a spec or MY thing? I wouldn't be looking at TD6's only V8's.

The rear locker on D3's I believe was part of the "Tow Pack" (US market naming). Do you know how to ID it on a UK car or if it wasn't available on any years/models.

camel_landy said:

Also, forget the idea of a manual, get the auto. You get more control with the auto and if you really _must_ drive it manually, you have the option of 'Command Shift'.

M

I've driven both and prefer the manual, faster, more responsive and more economical. TBH I'd only 'consider' an auto with the V8's as there is no manual option.

[camel_landy]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks. Do you know any specifics on the cross link setup on L322's? I thought they all had it, or is it a spec or MY thing? I wouldn't be looking at TD6's only V8's.

I don't know too many specifics on the crosslink other than it was dropped for a period of time but then re-introduced. Either way, the D3 bodyshell is better suited for off-roading than the L322 shell.

300bhp/ton said:

The rear locker on D3's I believe was part of the "Tow Pack" (US market naming). Do you know how to ID it on a UK car or if it wasn't available on any years/models.

The rear locker was always an option on the D3. The only way of telling is to have a look at the rear diff. The e-Diff is slightly larger and has the actuator/motor on the side of the casing. (Google will be your friend here.)

FWIW - All LRE & G4 cars had it fitted

300bhp/ton said:

I've driven both and prefer the manual, faster, more responsive and more economical. TBH I'd only 'consider' an auto with the V8's as there is no manual option.

Seriously... Get used to the auto. I will give you a pint for every gearchange you manage to do faster in the manual than the auto! As for the economy... Pah! In the same breath you're also talking about the V8.

If you want more economy out of an Auto, just use the Command Shift and adjust your driving. E.g. My TDV8 will normally give me 26mpg... Same driving but with Command Shift - 29mpg. Careful driving & Command Shift - 32.6mpg!!

The auto WILL give you MORE CONTROL, especially off-road or towing trailers. It really comes into its own on tricky, technical sections and especially on rock-crawl type situations where you are normally at risk of burning out a clutch.

The other area where the auto helps is in drive train life... Most people use a clutch as an on/off switch. This causes premature wear of splines & gears due to the 'shock loading' of the drive train. The auto keeps everything permenantly loaded and the drive train nice & tight.

M

[0llie]

D3 V8 appears to suit your requirements best out of those three IME.

[bakerstreet]

D3 all the way.

£10k is enough to get you a car that isn't at the bottom of the price bracket for D3s.

I also prefer the D3s over the RRS and FFRR. £10k would be enough to get you a leggy HSE or a decent spec SE model.

If it is going to be used off road, I'd go for one with the plastc bumpers.

There are a lot of accessories out now for the D3. bash plates, winch kits, replacement suspension parts to give you a bit more lift. I think Cooper do some good MTs and ATs for D3 tyre sizes.

I saw a photo of one with the body off the other day. Was a bit surprised by the corrosion

I grumble alot about LRs, but if the other half allowed me to spend 10k on a LR, I'd have a D3 in a shot...

[300bhp/ton]

camel_landy said:

The rear locker was always an option on the D3. The only way of telling is to have a look at the rear diff. The e-Diff is slightly larger and has the actuator/motor on the side of the casing. (Google will be your friend here.)

FWIW - All LRE & G4 cars had it fitted

Thanks. BTW - do you know if this can be retro fitted afterwards? I kind of suspect finding a D3 with it might prove a little challenging.

camel_landy said:

Seriously... Get used to the auto. I will give you a pint for every gearchange you manage to do faster in the manual than the auto! As for the economy... Pah! In the same breath you're also talking about the V8.

If you want more economy out of an Auto, just use the Command Shift and adjust your driving. E.g. My TDV8 will normally give me 26mpg... Same driving but with Command Shift - 29mpg. Careful driving & Command Shift - 32.6mpg!!

The auto WILL give you MORE CONTROL, especially off-road or towing trailers. It really comes into its own on tricky, technical sections and especially on rock-crawl type situations where you are normally at risk of burning out a clutch.

The other area where the auto helps is in drive train life... Most people use a clutch as an on/off switch. This causes premature wear of splines & gears due to the 'shock loading' of the drive train. The auto keeps everything permenantly loaded and the drive train nice & tight.

M

I just prefer manuals tbh. I did like my auto Jeep 4.0 litre and it convinced me how good they are off road. But the auto TDV6's I've driven just seem a little blunt and unresponsive, even mapped ones. And I'd personally enjoy the effort of changing gear.

BTW - most off roading would be of the RTV trailling type, or setup of. On RTV sections you can't stop, so auto's can be caught out a bit. Also not truly convinced on their down hill control vs a manual, even with HDC.

[camel_landy]

300bhp/ton said:

Thanks. BTW - do you know if this can be retro fitted afterwards? I kind of suspect finding a D3 with it might prove a little challenging.

They have been retro fitted... But it's not easy! (There is a write up on disco3.co.uk)

300bhp/ton said:

I just prefer manuals tbh. I did like my auto Jeep 4.0 litre and it convinced me how good they are off road. But the auto TDV6's I've driven just seem a little blunt and unresponsive, even mapped ones. And I'd personally enjoy the effort of changing gear.

BTW - most off roading would be of the RTV trailling type, or setup of. On RTV sections you can't stop, so auto's can be caught out a bit. Also not truly convinced on their down hill control vs a manual, even with HDC.

Yep, familiar with RTV and the D3 Auto would be perfect. As I said, if in doubt, use 'Command Shift' and select your gear.

Downhill, 1st Low & HDC gives you all the control you need. Even with HDC, your primary method of control is through engine braking. HDC just gives you an extra level of control on top (which you can adjust via the Cruise Control switch on the steering wheel).

I cannot stress enough how you NEED to forget the idea of the manual. I hope you see the light before you've had to replace most of the drive train (coz the previous owner trashed the splines & joints) and you're on your 3rd clutch!!!

Disco Auto is my weapon of choice off-road... Well, it was until the new Range Rover came out (and that just pisses all over it)!!!

M

[300bhp/ton]

Can't see the manual really being an issue and no more risky than a manual in anything else.

As said, I'm not against auto's, but if going auto then the diesel seems to be worth of all worlds and I'd rather a V8.

BTW - thought you might enjoy a vid of the RRS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMnLTWY3dFo

Not the most challenging of terrains (it was for a club publicity day, not a full trial). But the section had 6 different cross axles that could and indeed had been stopping various 90's.

[A.J.M]

Having used my D3 over the weekend for my first Tyro comp, i have to say the auto is your best bet.

Plus a new clutch and flywheel for a D3 is almost a grand to be done properly with good parts.

The auto gives so much control, i had no issues with pick up and was able to do everything the Defenders did.

Only issue with a D3 is the weight! It is VERY heavy and i found out that steep hills and loose surface can cause some twitchy bum movements.. Uphill climbs can be interesting on loose surfaces but TR and TC with the right tyres, ( i use Good year Duratrac's, as fitted to the 1,000,000th Disco trip ) it will climb places that it really has no need to.

Command shift can be used to do full throttle upshifts, try and do that in the porridge stirrer.

Btw you, don't need johnson rods. There is a new tool that plugs into the car, raises the suspension up to the same level and can be raised further if needed. But once you have finished, you plug it back in and return to normal driving mode. No need to fart about with sticking rods in and upsetting the handling for road use.

A v8 will drink fuel, the diesel will drink less. You don't buy one for MPG, you accept that 2.8 tons won't get good mpg but is balanced by being a superb car at most things.

[KieronGSi]

A.J.M said:

Having used my D3 over the weekend for my first Tyro comp, i have to say the auto is your best bet.

Plus a new clutch and flywheel for a D3 is almost a grand to be done properly with good parts.

The auto gives so much control, i had no issues with pick up and was able to do everything the Defenders did.

Only issue with a D3 is the weight! It is VERY heavy and i found out that steep hills and loose surface can cause some twitchy bum movements.. Uphill climbs can be interesting on loose surfaces but TR and TC with the right tyres, ( i use Good year Duratrac's, as fitted to the 1,000,000th Disco trip ) it will climb places that it really has no need to.

Command shift can be used to do full throttle upshifts, try and do that in the porridge stirrer.

Btw you, don't need johnson rods. There is a new tool that plugs into the car, raises the suspension up to the same level and can be raised further if needed. But once you have finished, you plug it back in and return to normal driving mode. No need to fart about with sticking rods in and upsetting the handling for road use.

A v8 will drink fuel, the diesel will drink less. You don't buy one for MPG, you accept that 2.8 tons won't get good mpg but is balanced by being a superb car at most things.

What's the name of this tool?

[RedLeicester]

300bhp/ton said:

to my surprise V8 ones seem more pricey than diesels.

Oh really, since when?

>sells on the spot!<

[IroningMan]

Per the other thread - manuals are so thin on the ground that insisting on one seriously limits your choice.

[300bhp/ton]

RedLeicester said:

Oh really, since when?

>sells on the spot!<

Well maybe I'm wrong, but Autotrader seems to have loads of diesels in the £7-8k range, while V8 ones seem to be £10k and over for the most part.

[RedLeicester]

300bhp/ton said:

RedLeicester said:

Oh really, since when?

>sells on the spot!<

Well maybe I'm wrong, but Autotrader seems to have loads of diesels in the £7-8k range, while V8 ones seem to be £10k and over for the most part.

Blimey they've rocketed back up again then - V8 HSEs were sub-£10k a couple of years ago.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...

[RedLeicester]

A.J.M said:

Only issue with a D3 is the weight! It is VERY heavy and i found out that steep hills and loose surface can cause some twitchy bum movements.. Uphill climbs can be interesting on loose surfaces but TR and TC with the right tyres, ( i use Good year Duratrac's, as fitted to the 1,000,000th Disco trip ) it will climb places that it really has no need to.

Even with the V8 being lighter than the LogV6, I was still terrified to see a Weighbridge report 2850kg for mine. They really are portable semi-detached houses.

A.J.M said:

A v8 will drink fuel, the diesel will drink less. You don't buy one for MPG, you accept that 2.8 tons won't get good mpg but is balanced by being a superb car at most things.

Yep, diesel will do a paltry handful more MPG than the V8, but most of the difference is offset by the lower cost of fuel. V8 is noticeably more sprightly too particularly when pulling out, as the hilarious 5.5-second difference in 0-60 says.

As AJ says, neither is "economical" by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm totally torn - as mentioned on another thread I really miss my L322. The D3 is a great car, and on paper they're almost identical, but you need only sit in a Rangie to see where the cost difference has come from, and that's not to damn the D3 with faint praise either.

Given your requirements for off-roading and the like, I'd have to agree with the posts above: I have taken my D3 places I'd never have dared to with the L322, and the reasons are varied - the D3 feels narrower after the L322, there's no doubting for an amateur / someone just getting on and going places, the D3 inspires more confidence than the L322. It's not to say the Rangie isn't good offroad, it blatantly is, but for the casual user like me, the D3 just gets on with it. In fairness part of that may be down to me running the Rangie on road tyres and the D3 on M/S... also, and perhaps this too is unfair given my disdain for the D3 after my L322, but there are places I've taken the D3 that I simply wouldn't have taken the L322, simply because I don't give a st about it...

.... but then that is half the appeal of the D3 - it's SO utilitarian after a Rangie that it feels unburstable, unstoppable, and unbreakable. So you just get on with life without a care, whereas with the Rangie, you care about the car as well as your life... Hmm, may be utter nonsense, but there you go.

To sum up, I think the L322 is glorious, the D3 a cracking car, and oddly, the D4 a pointless anachronism - the D3 is resolutely utilitarian and for all the reasons outlined above I love abusing it. The D4 is so glitzy it'd be like a Rangie.... without being a Rangie, which renders it pointless in my mind.

Oh and: I don't care which you get, as long as it has the RIGHT number of cylinders.

[A.J.M]

Bear in mind you could only get the V8, in SE and HSE models, with a couple of S specs built but they are very rare. No V8s are manual.

The Diesel can be in base 5 seat, base 7 seat, S, GS, XS, SE and HSE. With auto and manuals available for all.

That would imo go some way to boost prices plus 95% of sales were of the diesel anyway.

I've asked for the name of that tool, will post up what it is when i find out.

[anonymous-user]

Go retro!
There's a minty (and slightly rare) 101 Vampire on eBay at the mo. Restored, then professionally and sympathetically converted to a camper.

[A.J.M]

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key...

This is the tool for raising and lowering the air suspension.

As RL says, the D3 is great because it's utilitarian inside. It's still imo a great and luxurious car in HSE trim but it's hard wearing materials and everything is big and chunky so can be used with gloves etc.

Be aware, you need to check that the diesels have had the belts done, plus by 100-120k you should have the following replaced with proof.

Front wheel bearings, front lower wishbones, front arb bushes, front steering arms, possible front upper wishbones, drop links.
Rear upper wishbones, rear wishbones, possible rear lower wishbones, rear arb bushes, drop links.

For most, it's best to go O.E for parts, the arbs and drop links are very cheap, the uppers are the same. Front lowers are expensive though.

It's a heavy car and the above is wear and tear due to the weight of it. If you get an auto, the box will like a megaflush adn the diff oils changed as well.

[KieronGSi]

A.J.M said:

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key...

This is the tool for raising and lowering the air suspension.

As RL says, the D3 is great because it's utilitarian inside. It's still imo a great and luxurious car in HSE trim but it's hard wearing materials and everything is big and chunky so can be used with gloves etc.

Be aware, you need to check that the diesels have had the belts done, plus by 100-120k you should have the following replaced with proof.

Front wheel bearings, front lower wishbones, front arb bushes, front steering arms, possible front upper wishbones, drop links.
Rear upper wishbones, rear wishbones, possible rear lower wishbones, rear arb bushes, drop links.

For most, it's best to go O.E for parts, the arbs and drop links are very cheap, the uppers are the same. Front lowers are expensive though.

It's a heavy car and the above is wear and tear due to the weight of it. If you get an auto, the box will like a megaflush adn the diff oils changed as well.

Excellent, I will look into getting one. Means I don't have to set the suspension in off road and pull a fuse out any more.