Winterising a 4x4
Discussion
Chaps, I thought about putting this in the Land Rover forum, but thought it may get a touch more attention here, as this is not a Defender specific issue.
It seems increasingly likely that I will be doing part of this winter as a ski season out in the Alps. While this is not exactly Arctic territory, it will, on occasion, snow a lot. As the Defender will be going with me, I need some advice on how to make a diesel 4x4 work properly in minus 20 degree, heavy snow conditions. It will most likely be parked outdoors, not in a nice, warm garage.
It's a modified TD5, so has a heated screen and chunky BF Goodrich Mud Terrain tyres. But the heater is woeful, and I would like it to start in the mornings (diesel is susceptible to cold, correct?)
As I have never lived in snowy climes, some of these questions will be very, very schoolboy. Any other suggestions for snow motoring greatly received.
- will the mud tyres work in snow, and if not, can I fit snow chains to such tyres when necessary?
- will blanking off part of the radiator help with the heating situation (the Defender is over-cooled as standard it seems: heater never seems to get that hot)
- it already has a high-capacity battery. Any other precautions I can take for making sure it will crank over in very cold weather?
- already know about covering door locks etc to avoid snow ingress and freezing, and putting vaseline on door seals to prevent the door freezing shut - anything else?
- what should I carry in the back for emergencies/breakdowns? I was thinking snow shovel, sleeping bag, small bag of thermal clothes, matches etc.
I won't be sleeping in it - I just would like it reliable for everyday use, and safe/usefully provisioned if I do get stranded for a night on the mountain for any reason.
I know I should probably just flog it and buy a proper, modern Range Rover or Land Cruiser or something similar with terrain response, proper heating, heated seats/steering wheel etc - but I like my Defender (see below), and don't want to flog it just due to having to spend a few months in the Alps in mid winter.
Edited by Harry Flashman on Monday 2nd September 12:29
For heating.
Wear a jumper you soft southern pansy
For tyres
Mud terrains are fecking useless on ice and hard snow. So look at winter tyres or all terrains. You can fit chains but they are expensive in this size
For fuel system
Throw a wee bit of petrol in and carry a spare fuel filter.
For starting
Fit a kenlowe hotstart which is an utterly fantastic invention especially when combined with a time switch as it heats the engine with a 240v heater.
All of the above is based on my experiences with a 300 tdi in the north of scotland
Wear a jumper you soft southern pansy
For tyres
Mud terrains are fecking useless on ice and hard snow. So look at winter tyres or all terrains. You can fit chains but they are expensive in this size
For fuel system
Throw a wee bit of petrol in and carry a spare fuel filter.
For starting
Fit a kenlowe hotstart which is an utterly fantastic invention especially when combined with a time switch as it heats the engine with a 240v heater.
All of the above is based on my experiences with a 300 tdi in the north of scotland
Winter formula diesel, sold in those places should be fine, the locals survive. If you are worried about freezing diesel, then only if the TD5 is a simple engine add some unleaded to it, about a gallon to a a full tank.
If you are worried about getting stranded how about some food
Nice Landy BTW
If you are worried about getting stranded how about some food
Nice Landy BTW
I'd go for a remote-trigger preheater - had one on the Disco3 and it was great. Warm air as soon as you start the engine.
My cars all sit outside in the Alps in -20, -25 etc and always start. Remember that the diesel you get out there will be winter-grade and has additives to stop it waxing. At -33 C (lowest I ever saw on the car's readout) the Disco didn't want to start, but a few attempts had it going.
Standard mud tyres will be reasonably crap in the snow, though in all honesty it'd have to be very bad for it to be a major problem in most conditions. You've got low enough gearing and sufficient torque to get through most stuff. I'd stick some better tyres on though - General AT2 plus Pewag chains should do you for all occasions.
Edited to say - you'll need to carry chains with you at all times, 'cos when the weather gets bad there are certain areas where their fitment is mandatory.
My cars all sit outside in the Alps in -20, -25 etc and always start. Remember that the diesel you get out there will be winter-grade and has additives to stop it waxing. At -33 C (lowest I ever saw on the car's readout) the Disco didn't want to start, but a few attempts had it going.
Standard mud tyres will be reasonably crap in the snow, though in all honesty it'd have to be very bad for it to be a major problem in most conditions. You've got low enough gearing and sufficient torque to get through most stuff. I'd stick some better tyres on though - General AT2 plus Pewag chains should do you for all occasions.
Edited to say - you'll need to carry chains with you at all times, 'cos when the weather gets bad there are certain areas where their fitment is mandatory.
Edited by longblackcoat on Monday 2nd September 12:47
For tyres you are definitely going to need something cold weather biased rather than mud pluggers. You'll be wanting 4 + a spare as they're a bugger to get hold of at the top of a big white pointy hill.
As for heat - not as big a deal. I would simply buy a couple of small 12v ceramic fan heaters. I use them in my rally cars. They chuck out heat immediately and can be directed onto the screen, footwells etc.
May be worth getting an extra rear 12v socket wired in for the back if you don't have one already.
As for heat - not as big a deal. I would simply buy a couple of small 12v ceramic fan heaters. I use them in my rally cars. They chuck out heat immediately and can be directed onto the screen, footwells etc.
May be worth getting an extra rear 12v socket wired in for the back if you don't have one already.
McWigglebum4th said:
For heating.
Wear a jumper you soft southern pansy
For tyres
Mud terrains are fecking useless on ice and hard snow. So look at winter tyres or all terrains. You can fit chains but they are expensive in this size
For fuel system
Throw a wee bit of petrol in and carry a spare fuel filter.
For starting
Fit a kenlowe hotstart which is an utterly fantastic invention especially when combined with a time switch as it heats the engine with a 240v heater.
All of the above is based on my experiences with a 300 tdi in the north of scotland
Even ATs are relative poor. Get some proper BFG winter tyres with the sipes and proper winter compound. I've never had any traction problems in soft-roader - X-Trail - and that's up 1:4 hills with a foot of ice and snow on them on the moors. That said our old Ford Ka could get up the same hills - with some slippage - on winter tyres as well as long as the snow wasn't deep.Wear a jumper you soft southern pansy
For tyres
Mud terrains are fecking useless on ice and hard snow. So look at winter tyres or all terrains. You can fit chains but they are expensive in this size
For fuel system
Throw a wee bit of petrol in and carry a spare fuel filter.
For starting
Fit a kenlowe hotstart which is an utterly fantastic invention especially when combined with a time switch as it heats the engine with a 240v heater.
All of the above is based on my experiences with a 300 tdi in the north of scotland
- IF* you do get stuck it's worth carrying a shovel and a thermal blanket (reflexcel are by far the best) so you can dig out / wait for help.
I would avoid Vaseline on the seals, I beleive TVR owners experienced similar issue with frameless doors, maybe they can help (I just chuck warm water on the Mustang and it opens fine 
Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
PanzerCommander said:
I would avoid Vaseline on the seals, I beleive TVR owners experienced similar issue with frameless doors, maybe they can help (I just chuck warm water on the Mustang and it opens fine
Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
halfords do a silicone spray i use.Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
PanzerCommander said:
I would avoid Vaseline on the seals, I beleive TVR owners experienced similar issue with frameless doors, maybe they can help (I just chuck warm water on the Mustang and it opens fine
Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
It does as many surfers found out when trying to prevent wetsuit rub; many suits fell to bits!Vaseline has been known to rot the rubber. Some sort of automotive grease would be better or maybe a silicone based compound.
rhinochopig said:
Even ATs are relative poor. Get some proper BFG winter tyres with the sipes and proper winter compound. I've never had any traction problems in soft-roader - X-Trail - and that's up 1:4 hills with a foot of ice and snow on them on the moors. That said our old Ford Ka could get up the same hills - with some slippage - on winter tyres as well as long as the snow wasn't deep.
Recommended to someone else Bridgestone Dueller Revo2's on another thread recently. Handled the deep snow, packed ice, etc over here with no bother at all, as well as the snows of Upstate NY.- IF* you do get stuck it's worth carrying a shovel and a thermal blanket (reflexcel are by far the best) so you can dig out / wait for help.
http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Major Fallout said:
I took my TD5 Disco skiing and the ATF fluid in the power steering froze and burst a pipe.
We did see -23 on the car one day.
Oh and I want your car, its what I'm aiming for next.
Considering power steering fluid is meant to have a freezing point of -40 C, I assume you had some water in there as well? We did see -23 on the car one day.
Oh and I want your car, its what I'm aiming for next.
longblackcoat said:
Major Fallout said:
I took my TD5 Disco skiing and the ATF fluid in the power steering froze and burst a pipe.
We did see -23 on the car one day.
Oh and I want your car, its what I'm aiming for next.
Considering power steering fluid is meant to have a freezing point of -40 C, I assume you had some water in there as well? We did see -23 on the car one day.
Oh and I want your car, its what I'm aiming for next.
Then handed it back to them broken the month after.
I guess it also might have been colder at night.
Harry Flashman said:
- what should I carry in the back for emergencies/breakdowns? I was thinking snow shovel, sleeping bag, small bag of thermal clothes, matches etc.
Extra clothing. Don't forget a) hat b) gloves. You can probably leave the DJ at home.Sleeping bag/blanket. Foil blankets are crap. Proper wool blankets are better and can be used for many other things....emergency field dressing, matting under the tyres, cut a thin strip off the edge to make a wick for lighting, knot the corners to make a basic stretcher, etc. etc.
Water. As easy to dehydrate in a cold environment as it is a hot one. Melting snow for water is time consuming and uses fuel.
Brew kit......get on eBay or a good surplus store and buy a couple of MOD 24-hr ration packs. The British military gets some crappy kit but these are not on that list and are envied by forces the world over. Includes everything bar water, a stove to cook on and a fork to eat it with - although it wouldn't surprise me if they even contain one of those now. (If not, get a Spork...google'em)
Jetboil stoves are very good as they're compact, have built-in ignition and use gas not wet fuel. Bit pricey though. (
boring H&S bit....use caution when using a stove/cooker inside a vehicle and allow plenty of ventilation. Ideally, use it outside)Candles and a candle lantern (not smelly vanilla perfumed ones, long-burning survival ones, give off (a bit of) warmth as well as light and don't need batteries......and boost morale by making the back of your Landy a bit more homely.....seriously! See note above ref use inside vehicles)
Lip salve, sunscreen, sunglasses (yes really.....snow blindness really hurts)
Ski pole or similar for prodding ahead if forced to walk to safety.
A good paperback book.
And finally......
Andy McNab as a passenger.
If your heater's woeful by the way there's something wrong with it. TD5s have perfectly good heaters although the actual fan is prone to failure in the resistor pack that controls fan speed.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd September 13:52
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd September 13:53
Crossflow Kid said:
Harry Flashman said:
- what should I carry in the back for emergencies/breakdowns? I was thinking snow shovel, sleeping bag, small bag of thermal clothes, matches etc.
Extra clothing. Don't forget a) hat b) gloves. You can probably leave the DJ at home.Sleeping bag/blanket. Foil blankets are crap. Proper wool blankets are better and can be used for many other things....emergency field dressing, matting under the tyres, cut a thin strip off the edge to make a wick for lighting, knot the corners to make a basic stretcher, etc. etc.
Water. As easy to dehydrate in a cold environment as it is a hot one. Melting snow for water is time consuming and uses fuel.
Brew kit......get on eBay or a good surplus store and buy a couple of MOD 24-hr ration packs. The British military gets some crappy kit but these are not on that list and are envied by forces the world over. Includes everything bar water, a stove to cook on and a fork to eat it with - although it wouldn't surprise me if they even contain one of those now. (If not, get a Spork...google'em)
Jetboil stoves are very good as they're compact, have built-in ignition and use gas not wet fuel. Bit pricey though. (
boring H&S bit....use caution when using a stove/cooker inside a vehicle and allow plenty of ventilation. Ideally, use it outside)Candles and a candle lantern (not smelly vanilla perfumed ones, long-burning survival ones, give off (a bit of) warmth as well as light and don't need batteries......and boost morale by making the back of your Landy a bit more homely.....seriously! See note above ref use inside vehicles)
Lip salve, sunscreen, sunglasses (yes really.....show blindness really hurts)
Ski pole or similar for prodding ahead if forced to walk to safety.
A good paperback book.
And finally......
Andy McNab as a passenger.
te in the back. He wants to winterise not drive to the north pole. Oh and foil blankets are not crap...http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/page.php?xPage=reflexcell-technology.html The US Army Med Corps use them for Hypothermia as do a lot of SAR teams.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff