W220 S430L Vibration at 65 mph. Suggestions please...
Discussion
OK, here's the deal. A few months ago I bought a low mileage, (70k), 2001 S430L.
I absolutely love it but for one very annoying thing.
Around 65 mph there's a vibration from the rear of the car. To all intents and purposes it felt like the wheels were bent.
So I had two tyres replaced and the wheels balanced and that improved it slightly. Then I had the wheels balanced again somewhere else and that just made the symptoms a bit different.
So having read a lot on various forums about the tyres being the issue and having promised myself a better looking set of wheels, I went and bought a set of aftermarket wheels, acquired the correct spigots and bolts then aftter admiring the car with them on, took it for a spin. The vibration was still there.
So took it to the second place I'd had my original wheels balanced to have them re-done there as I knew he'd recently had his machine callibrated and it didn't change anything.
I found a Road Force balancer so took it there, parted with £60 and they gave the existing balancing job and the tyres a clean bill of health.
I had planned on having the transmission serviced anyway so I took it to an autobox specialist who tested it for glycol contamination, did a fluid/filter change on it and that also recieved a clean bill of health along with the engine and drivetrain mounts.
Took it back to the mechanic who ran a dial guage on the propshaft and found about 4mm play in it when it was running so whipped it off and took it to a propshaft specialist who relaced the centre bearing, UJ, heat tempered it and balanced it up so now it's running perfectly true but the vibration persists.
The Mechanic has now checked the rear brake drums for trueness and they would appear to be spot on but it still vibrates.
The only thing I can think on now is wheel bearings. When the wheels are raised off the ground and run up to speed they're visibly out of 'true' but are perfect on the balancer.
So what do you guys think?
Please help!
I absolutely love it but for one very annoying thing.
Around 65 mph there's a vibration from the rear of the car. To all intents and purposes it felt like the wheels were bent.
So I had two tyres replaced and the wheels balanced and that improved it slightly. Then I had the wheels balanced again somewhere else and that just made the symptoms a bit different.
So having read a lot on various forums about the tyres being the issue and having promised myself a better looking set of wheels, I went and bought a set of aftermarket wheels, acquired the correct spigots and bolts then aftter admiring the car with them on, took it for a spin. The vibration was still there.
So took it to the second place I'd had my original wheels balanced to have them re-done there as I knew he'd recently had his machine callibrated and it didn't change anything.
I found a Road Force balancer so took it there, parted with £60 and they gave the existing balancing job and the tyres a clean bill of health.
I had planned on having the transmission serviced anyway so I took it to an autobox specialist who tested it for glycol contamination, did a fluid/filter change on it and that also recieved a clean bill of health along with the engine and drivetrain mounts.
Took it back to the mechanic who ran a dial guage on the propshaft and found about 4mm play in it when it was running so whipped it off and took it to a propshaft specialist who relaced the centre bearing, UJ, heat tempered it and balanced it up so now it's running perfectly true but the vibration persists.
The Mechanic has now checked the rear brake drums for trueness and they would appear to be spot on but it still vibrates.
The only thing I can think on now is wheel bearings. When the wheels are raised off the ground and run up to speed they're visibly out of 'true' but are perfect on the balancer.
So what do you guys think?
Please help!
r129sl said:
Diff mount bushes? They collapse, the diff sags, the front and back of the prop are no longer in alignment. On the Merc Club forum, someone with a 129 went through everything before trying this and it was this that worked. Also rear subframe mount bushes on the same principle.
Definitely worth checking, thanks.Is there a recognised method of checking them?
If the engine mounts have gone then the drive train goes out of line. One can check this by looking at the cooling fan cowl, the gap all round should be equal, a larger gap at the top would show engine mounts failed.
Your wheels, Mercedes wheels are hub centric, and centered on the hub, the conical bolts just hold the wheel on tight to the axle. with after market wheels it can be very hard to center them and most use taper bolts
Your wheels, Mercedes wheels are hub centric, and centered on the hub, the conical bolts just hold the wheel on tight to the axle. with after market wheels it can be very hard to center them and most use taper bolts
television said:
If the engine mounts have gone then the drive train goes out of line. One can check this by looking at the cooling fan cowl, the gap all round should be equal, a larger gap at the top would show engine mounts failed.
I had asked for these to be checked out and the mech' said they were OK and I thought a tell tale sign of these being worn was vibration at idle but I'll have a look at the cowling as you say.television said:
Your wheels, Mercedes wheels are hub centric, and centered on the hub, the conical bolts just hold the wheel on tight to the axle. with after market wheels it can be very hard to center them and most use taper bolts
I have the correct spigot rings on them and the front ones are absolutely fine. They use radius-shouldered bolts and besides, the original wheels and bolts do the same so I'm not inclined to think they're the problem but I can't say I'm not still considering that to be the case. Just to prove the point I might just put the original wheels back on since I've had the propshaft sorted.Thanks.
When the oil filled engine mounts are gone you can feel the engine through the pedals and steering wheel in really bad cases.
When it comes to wheel balancing, there are few who do it correctly, I have seen one guy put it on the machine,spin the wheel once,stick the weights on and take it off as done, shocking really it can take 6 or so spins to get some wheels spot on
When it comes to wheel balancing, there are few who do it correctly, I have seen one guy put it on the machine,spin the wheel once,stick the weights on and take it off as done, shocking really it can take 6 or so spins to get some wheels spot on
It does feel like the wheels are unbalanced, however the front wheels were done at the same time as the rears, I watched them do it, (both mechanic and Road Force), and they did it properly and both balancers agreed they were spot on without changing the weights.
There's no vibration from the front at all.
There's no vibration from the front at all.
The other thing I would look for is anything on the underside that has suffered a weakening of its attachments. On the 129 the bushes on the cross braces go weak and cause this kind of vibration, obviously that won't apply to your 220 but it could be an undertray or something, the fixings for the undertrays are notoriously weak.
r129sl said:
The other thing I would look for is anything on the underside that has suffered a weakening of its attachments. On the 129 the bushes on the cross braces go weak and cause this kind of vibration, obviously that won't apply to your 220 but it could be an undertray or something, the fixings for the undertrays are notoriously weak.
I doubt it but it's worth keeping it in the back of my mind. Thanks.At the moment I'm favouring Diff' mounts.
The reason being that I do detect a bit of slack in the drivetrain. It's most obvious if the car has come to a gentle stop pointing downhill then I want to accelerate quickly afterwards.
There's a slight delay in 'hook up' then when it does it could snap your neck as it lurches forward and there's distinctly something getting to the end of it's travel from the back of the car. I don't so much hear it as feel it.
My feeling is that it's the diff' rocking back/forwards.
I'll go sit in the car later with the emergency brake on and shift it in and out of D/R maybe with a little throttle applied to see if it's evident then.
The reason being that I do detect a bit of slack in the drivetrain. It's most obvious if the car has come to a gentle stop pointing downhill then I want to accelerate quickly afterwards.
There's a slight delay in 'hook up' then when it does it could snap your neck as it lurches forward and there's distinctly something getting to the end of it's travel from the back of the car. I don't so much hear it as feel it.
My feeling is that it's the diff' rocking back/forwards.
I'll go sit in the car later with the emergency brake on and shift it in and out of D/R maybe with a little throttle applied to see if it's evident then.
Spoke to my mechanic since getting the car back and he assures me he's checked all the suspension and drivetrain mounts and they're sound. He put the car on one of those shaking machines and couldn't find anything untoward at all and he's gradually checked the brake drums are running true by putting it on a brake testing machine and applying the brake one click at a time and they're perfect.
I've now spoken to a Merc' mechanic, (on my mechanic's recommendation), and listed all the things I've done to try and erradicate this irrataion.
He suggests that one or more of the CV joints on the driveshaft(s) may be on its/their way out.
That might account for the 'clunk' I get when I accelerate quickly from standstill and the fact that the vibration comes and goes like an out of balance wheel.
What do you think?
I've now spoken to a Merc' mechanic, (on my mechanic's recommendation), and listed all the things I've done to try and erradicate this irrataion.
He suggests that one or more of the CV joints on the driveshaft(s) may be on its/their way out.
That might account for the 'clunk' I get when I accelerate quickly from standstill and the fact that the vibration comes and goes like an out of balance wheel.
What do you think?
So I had a look under the rear of the car while it was running and with the parking brake applied and had my Son shift it in and out of 'D' and 'R' and I noticed that there's about an inch of play in the front subframe mounting bushes depending on what way the torque is applied.
I suspect this is where the slack/clunk is coming from.
Is that amount of play normal or should I start thinking about replacing them?
I suspect this is where the slack/clunk is coming from.
Is that amount of play normal or should I start thinking about replacing them?
Not normal. They should be replaced. They're not particularly expensive nor is the labour. You will notice a big difference, not only may it affect your vibration but turn in should be sharper and straight line stability better. The multi-link rear suspension that Merc has used on all models since 1982 really depends upon the rubber bushings being in good order and they do deteriorate: 100,000 miles or 10years call for replacement.
r129sl said:
Not normal. They should be replaced. They're not particularly expensive nor is the labour. You will notice a big difference, not only may it affect your vibration but turn in should be sharper and straight line stability better. The multi-link rear suspension that Merc has used on all models since 1982 really depends upon the rubber bushings being in good order and they do deteriorate: 100,000 miles or 10years call for replacement.
Well, it's 12yo, at 75k and I think it's spent most of its life in urban conditions, (not good for wear and tear!), I'll noise up my mechanic and get him to replace them.To be honest, its straight line stability is incredible but occassionally if I drive over a bump I get a slight sidestep but I'll leave getting the allignment done till after they're replaced.
If nothing else it'll be another thing ticked off the list!! LOL
Thanks.
Edited by Big Rod on Friday 6th September 10:25
Sid's Dad said:
I had this problem on my E430. Turned out to be the rear tyres, which had flat spots after being stood for a few months in the previous owners garage before being sold. New tyres - no vibration.
Well, I had the wheels 'Road Force' balanced in the hope that I could discount that kind of thing but I am always skeptical about balancing and how 'true' the machines in some garages are.If it's dry tonight I'm going to put the original wheels on the back and take it for a run to see if there's any improvement. (Actually, even though they're staggered I might just swap front to back as I know there's nothing wrong with the front wheels/tyres and take it for a short spin.
Thanks.
Gassing Station | Mercedes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff