Top end rebuild for 1K
Discussion
Folks, speaking to one of my mates who's a lotus mechanic. Chatting away about the Cerb and various problems with them. Got onto top end rebuilds.
Basically he says it's straight forward to put a new set of finger followers and valve guides into the S6 engine. Would cost less than 1000quid too. Would take him 3 days to do.
So two questions:
1)why does everyone talk about over inflated engine rebuild prices ie 4K and times of 3-4 months
2)Why does the engine have to go back to Blackpool or TVR Power?
Is it a case that TVR will not supply you with the spare parts?
If this is the case would it not be a good idea for NS to start providing spare parts and keep his team building new TVRs and keep current owners happy by giving them this option which is clearly cheaper and faster to do.
CHeers
Jamster
Basically he says it's straight forward to put a new set of finger followers and valve guides into the S6 engine. Would cost less than 1000quid too. Would take him 3 days to do.
So two questions:
1)why does everyone talk about over inflated engine rebuild prices ie 4K and times of 3-4 months
2)Why does the engine have to go back to Blackpool or TVR Power?
Is it a case that TVR will not supply you with the spare parts?
If this is the case would it not be a good idea for NS to start providing spare parts and keep his team building new TVRs and keep current owners happy by giving them this option which is clearly cheaper and faster to do.
CHeers
Jamster
I went through a similar thought process before... worked out that it should't really cost TVR more than about £1k to do a top-end rebuild, so their "goodwill" £2k+ rebuilds were still netting them a healthy profit. In theory, at least...
To be honest, TVR needn't even supply the parts - wouldn't imagine it'd be that hard to get some new ones machined based on measurements of the existing ones (on a "good" car).
To be honest, TVR needn't even supply the parts - wouldn't imagine it'd be that hard to get some new ones machined based on measurements of the existing ones (on a "good" car).
Jamster,
This all sounds well and good but when you come to sell wouldnt it restrict your audiance a bit?
Im not saying this person doesnt do the job properly but some people will only buy cars that either TVR Blackpool or the Maindealears have worked on?
I know personally I'd rather pay £1K than £4K.
This all sounds well and good but when you come to sell wouldnt it restrict your audiance a bit?
Im not saying this person doesnt do the job properly but some people will only buy cars that either TVR Blackpool or the Maindealears have worked on?
I know personally I'd rather pay £1K than £4K.
I think you'll find a top end rebuild involves more than the top end ..
.. your finger followers have worn through the hardening, you have millions and millions of tiny iron filings throughout the whole of the oil system .. so your man does a top end rebuild and two days later the engine's blown up cos the oil pump has failed, reason is it's been worn away by millions of iron filings! ..
I think a *quick and cheap* fix like this is false economy.
IMO.
.. your finger followers have worn through the hardening, you have millions and millions of tiny iron filings throughout the whole of the oil system .. so your man does a top end rebuild and two days later the engine's blown up cos the oil pump has failed, reason is it's been worn away by millions of iron filings! ..
I think a *quick and cheap* fix like this is false economy.
IMO.
I was under the impression that a rebuild at TVR was just that - the whole lot gets done?
OUrs has been up there 3 months now...due back this week...that was because of 2 worn followers.
And yes - it would perhaps be too much common sense to actually train up the dealer techs and supply parts !
Last I head there were over 30 cars still up there in the queue...and theyve apparently employed 8 new mechanics to cope with the workload. Still not good when you can have nearly any other modern engine sorted out within a week or so anywhere else.
OUrs has been up there 3 months now...due back this week...that was because of 2 worn followers.
And yes - it would perhaps be too much common sense to actually train up the dealer techs and supply parts !
Last I head there were over 30 cars still up there in the queue...and theyve apparently employed 8 new mechanics to cope with the workload. Still not good when you can have nearly any other modern engine sorted out within a week or so anywhere else.
It's the time frame that seems a bit crazy to me. If the work is being done under goodwill then you can live with not having the car for a while. However if paying full price for the work you should expect to get the car turned round in weeks at the most. The factory has no excuse when making a profit on the failures.
Surely somethings got to give.
With early Cerbs going for as little as £14-15K the cost of reapairs starts to become a high percentage of the purchase price.
Once they reach as little as £10K (due to age, high mileage etc.) will anybody touch them with a bargepole considering the (current) running costs?
I think the SP6 parts bin *needs* to be opened up to independents or soon those glorious older Cerbs could become un-economic white elephants.
And that would be a terrible thing cause I want one!
With early Cerbs going for as little as £14-15K the cost of reapairs starts to become a high percentage of the purchase price.
Once they reach as little as £10K (due to age, high mileage etc.) will anybody touch them with a bargepole considering the (current) running costs?
I think the SP6 parts bin *needs* to be opened up to independents or soon those glorious older Cerbs could become un-economic white elephants.
And that would be a terrible thing cause I want one!
Sure, they've got a better reputation for reliability, but they can still only be repaired by the factory can't they?
And last I heard even the factory couldn't seem to to get any cams for them (although I'm sure that's been resolved by now).
>> Edited by bobfrance on Monday 25th October 20:41
And last I heard even the factory couldn't seem to to get any cams for them (although I'm sure that's been resolved by now).
>> Edited by bobfrance on Monday 25th October 20:41
DON'T GO THERE! 
I honestly don't wish to turn Jamster's thread into a SP6 warzone.
Just speculating that if the newer TVR's are going to be future classics like Wedges, Griffs etc. then they have to let others take care of the engines.
Surely most marques at least have dealers who are capable of doing this.
If Mr. Moley wants to spread the brand into Europe and beyond then they can't all be sent home to Blackpool when they have an engine problem.
>> Edited by bobfrance on Monday 25th October 21:08
I honestly don't wish to turn Jamster's thread into a SP6 warzone.
Just speculating that if the newer TVR's are going to be future classics like Wedges, Griffs etc. then they have to let others take care of the engines.
Surely most marques at least have dealers who are capable of doing this.
If Mr. Moley wants to spread the brand into Europe and beyond then they can't all be sent home to Blackpool when they have an engine problem.
>> Edited by bobfrance on Monday 25th October 21:08
joospeed said:
I think you'll find a top end rebuild involves more than the top end ..
.. your finger followers have worn through the hardening, you have millions and millions of tiny iron filings throughout the whole of the oil system .. so your man does a top end rebuild and two days later the engine's blown up cos the oil pump has failed, reason is it's been worn away by millions of iron filings! ..
I think a *quick and cheap* fix like this is false economy.
IMO.
Very good point! But what if it were offered to people who hadn't had their engines fail yet... if it was a £1k preventative rebuild? Imagine a few people with 2000/2001 cars on 10,000 miles or so might be interested in that, especially if it was a 1 week turnaround or less.
J_S_G said:
I think you'll find a top end rebuild involves more than the top end ..
.. your finger followers have worn through the hardening, you have millions and millions of tiny iron filings throughout the whole of the oil system .. so your man does a top end rebuild and two days later the engine's blown up cos the oil pump has failed, reason is it's been worn away by millions of iron filings! ..
I think a *quick and cheap* fix like this is false economy.
IMO.
Very good point! But what if it were offered to people who hadn't had their engines fail yet... if it was a £1k preventative rebuild?
Get the cars right in the first place I say...
He wants to sell the cars in the USA ! ....think they need to sort out the home market first 
The whole SP6 engine problem fiasco wouldnt be nowhere near as bad if all you did was drop it down the dealer, get a courtesy car, and pick yours up sorted say within a week or 2. I mean look at Rover with the K series head gasket failure endemic....that would have been a potential nightmare if every car had to go back to the factory.
What gets me is there does seem to be some sort of pecking order up there between:
1.brand new cars under TVR warranty
2. Dealer sold cars with aftermarket or dealer warranty
3. Private purchasers on goodwill or paying themselves
4. Upgrade work paid for by customer
1. - take priority - I know of 2 people who in the last 3 months(whilst ours has been in ) who have had Tamora and 350 engines go pop under 10K miles...both had new engines fitted and the cars back within 1 month?! (maybe its just quicker to swap engines rather than out/rebuild/back in again?)
Ours was in no.2 ...1st told 4 weeks, then 8, then 12...maybe this week now....various excuses along the way (when you can get hold of anyone on the phone that is)
4. - you get a date and it seems to get done on time...guess if you are paying the dosh this is what you expect
3. Seem to be last on the list, or at least on par with 2.
all this could be solved by at least having authorised service centres and factory trained techs in them....
guess well have to wait and see what Mr S does, but it surely cant carry on how it is now.......
The whole SP6 engine problem fiasco wouldnt be nowhere near as bad if all you did was drop it down the dealer, get a courtesy car, and pick yours up sorted say within a week or 2. I mean look at Rover with the K series head gasket failure endemic....that would have been a potential nightmare if every car had to go back to the factory.
What gets me is there does seem to be some sort of pecking order up there between:
1.brand new cars under TVR warranty
2. Dealer sold cars with aftermarket or dealer warranty
3. Private purchasers on goodwill or paying themselves
4. Upgrade work paid for by customer
1. - take priority - I know of 2 people who in the last 3 months(whilst ours has been in ) who have had Tamora and 350 engines go pop under 10K miles...both had new engines fitted and the cars back within 1 month?! (maybe its just quicker to swap engines rather than out/rebuild/back in again?)
Ours was in no.2 ...1st told 4 weeks, then 8, then 12...maybe this week now....various excuses along the way (when you can get hold of anyone on the phone that is)
4. - you get a date and it seems to get done on time...guess if you are paying the dosh this is what you expect
3. Seem to be last on the list, or at least on par with 2.
all this could be solved by at least having authorised service centres and factory trained techs in them....
guess well have to wait and see what Mr S does, but it surely cant carry on how it is now.......
bogie said:
guess well have to wait and see what Mr S does, but it surely cant carry on how it is now.......
Wonder how many pre 2002 engines have been rebuilt and are now running on sorted followers/valve guides. Or, more to the point... I wonder how many cars there are still out there left to go. I guess the silly waiting times at the moment are because the average mileage P/A and the average mileage before rebuilds is at a peak.
Whilst pondering such things... has anybody that's had their car go back to the factory recently, and that's supposedly paying for it fixing themselves asked WHY it's taking 8-12 weeks? I.e. have they been told "there's a queue of several dozen broken engines before yours, sir"? That'd be an interesting conversation if they still expected a cheque at the end of it...
we were told that a hold was put on all repair work until they found better quality components for the followers, to put this prob to bed once and for all....now that was scary as they were basically admitting that until 4 weeks ago they were using sub standard parts ! FFS...they need to get their story straight
I want to know what the thought process is behind TVR.
Hmm lets build our own Straight 6 Engine--wow its really good, i know- lets not do exhaustive tests and just get it out there NOW SELL SELL, or---maybe--get it out there now--sell sell (Shhhhshshs lets pretend those test model engines didnt go pop)
and now the present....
Hmmm im the head of TVR and ive got a workshop full of straight 6 engines-- some comming in consistently.
obviously its becasue everyone gives them death on the race track.......
Or are they just operating on false economy...
a TVR is an enthusiast car-- has a small ownership, following and people talk..... so why isnt it fixed--its not rocket science to get the problem fixed once and for all rather than depressing every owner and potential owner and residual values due to inevitable engine failure.
Im sorry, but they are idiots, dont have a clue how to run a business
thats just my rant and i dont even own a TVR.
How many new models based on the straight 6 engine are they comming out with..christ, and the inherent flaw isnt even resolved.
Hmm lets build our own Straight 6 Engine--wow its really good, i know- lets not do exhaustive tests and just get it out there NOW SELL SELL, or---maybe--get it out there now--sell sell (Shhhhshshs lets pretend those test model engines didnt go pop)
and now the present....
Hmmm im the head of TVR and ive got a workshop full of straight 6 engines-- some comming in consistently.
obviously its becasue everyone gives them death on the race track.......
Or are they just operating on false economy...
a TVR is an enthusiast car-- has a small ownership, following and people talk..... so why isnt it fixed--its not rocket science to get the problem fixed once and for all rather than depressing every owner and potential owner and residual values due to inevitable engine failure.
Im sorry, but they are idiots, dont have a clue how to run a business
thats just my rant and i dont even own a TVR.
How many new models based on the straight 6 engine are they comming out with..christ, and the inherent flaw isnt even resolved.
I am currently in the market for a Tuscan S6, to be honest i am rapidly retreating from the idea. I have a friend that owns a well known TVR garage, however, the whole problem of having to send the engine or car to Blackpool fills me with dread. The majority of the cars i am looking at are in the £21-25K bracket with 12-20k miles. I know that when i buy this car it will almost definitely need a rebuild.
So what do i do, i can budget for a car when the S6 lottery numbers come in. It is absolutely ridiculous that TVR do not allow main dealers or even the specialist that advertise here work on the engines.
I am an engineer, if i had made the choice of the finger follower material or the treatment process i would have been sacked. It is absurd that TVR have not resolved what is obviously a very big problem for the S6, its making potential buyers nervous and plummeting the residual values.
I don't know what i am going to do, i want a Tuscan very much, but i do not want the headaches and empty pockets that are sure to follow.
So what do i do, i can budget for a car when the S6 lottery numbers come in. It is absolutely ridiculous that TVR do not allow main dealers or even the specialist that advertise here work on the engines.
I am an engineer, if i had made the choice of the finger follower material or the treatment process i would have been sacked. It is absurd that TVR have not resolved what is obviously a very big problem for the S6, its making potential buyers nervous and plummeting the residual values.
I don't know what i am going to do, i want a Tuscan very much, but i do not want the headaches and empty pockets that are sure to follow.
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