Thinking of competing in my mk1 escort??
Discussion
Hi, just after a bit of advice....... Ive got a mk1 escort that ive had in storage for the last 10 years, it was my old road car that got a bit out of hand - i ended up space-framing it with sierra running gear and fitting a 2.0 turbo engine.
The reason this has come about is i was going to sell it (basically as i thought i'd never use it again) but i suggested to my stepson that we rebuild it together and do some track days with it and he was very keen, but i got thinking rather than just trackdays i wonder what the difference in cost would be if we could compete in something like hillclimbs and sprints? i liked the idea of allowing 2 separate drivers that could use the same car.
i've looked into the regs and not really sure if the car would be eligible or not? and how much work we'd need to do to get it eligible?? the roll cage is home built etc.
also could someone give us an idea of how much we'd be paying for a licence and to race at an event? i've done autograss racing in the past and although that was very cheap we did seem to spend more time repairing the damage than actually racing the cars and this mk1 escort i have is getting a bit valuable to batter round a grass track.
Thanks
The reason this has come about is i was going to sell it (basically as i thought i'd never use it again) but i suggested to my stepson that we rebuild it together and do some track days with it and he was very keen, but i got thinking rather than just trackdays i wonder what the difference in cost would be if we could compete in something like hillclimbs and sprints? i liked the idea of allowing 2 separate drivers that could use the same car.
i've looked into the regs and not really sure if the car would be eligible or not? and how much work we'd need to do to get it eligible?? the roll cage is home built etc.
also could someone give us an idea of how much we'd be paying for a licence and to race at an event? i've done autograss racing in the past and although that was very cheap we did seem to spend more time repairing the damage than actually racing the cars and this mk1 escort i have is getting a bit valuable to batter round a grass track.
Thanks
National B Licence is approx. £36 from the MSA.
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.a...
National B sprint/hillclinb cost anything from £85 upwards (depending on venue/organising club)
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/allabout.asp
This guy usually tops the time sheets at our local hill climb event (Class 3B Modified Series Production Cars over 1400cc and up to 2000cc):
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.a...
National B sprint/hillclinb cost anything from £85 upwards (depending on venue/organising club)
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/allabout.asp
This guy usually tops the time sheets at our local hill climb event (Class 3B Modified Series Production Cars over 1400cc and up to 2000cc):
Edit - not sure what class you would be eligible (if any) for due to your Escort's current spec?
MODIFIED SPECIALIST PRODUCTION CARS
MODIFIED SERIES PRODUCTION CARS OVER 2000cc (addition of turbo and/or supercharger is equivalent of an increase of 1400cc).
My 1999cc Impreza Turbo runs in Class '1C ROADGOING SERIES PRODUCTION CARS OVER 2000cc' (i.e. a 2000 cc car + turbo = 3400cc).
Taken from the MSA Rule Book:
[i]Engines
10.3.1. Forced induction equivalence 1.4.
10.3.2. Rotary engine equivalence 1.5. Forced
induction rotary equivalence (1.4 x 1.5) = 2.1.[/i]
MODIFIED SPECIALIST PRODUCTION CARS
MODIFIED SERIES PRODUCTION CARS OVER 2000cc (addition of turbo and/or supercharger is equivalent of an increase of 1400cc).
My 1999cc Impreza Turbo runs in Class '1C ROADGOING SERIES PRODUCTION CARS OVER 2000cc' (i.e. a 2000 cc car + turbo = 3400cc).
Taken from the MSA Rule Book:
[i]Engines
10.3.1. Forced induction equivalence 1.4.
10.3.2. Rotary engine equivalence 1.5. Forced
induction rotary equivalence (1.4 x 1.5) = 2.1.[/i]
thanks for the help so far
fitting a different (smaller) engine isn't a problem if it would make it a better class, but obviously the space framing it pretty permanent i did read that novices were not allowed to race 2.0 turbo cars so i had it in my mind i would have to swap the engine.
say if its classed as sports libre and that needs a different Nat A Open licence is it the same cost? and can i get one as a novice?
it is (well was) road legal - if it would help i could MOT and tax it again.
i take it if we both race the car we would have to pay 2x entry fee's?
is there any link to the build regs of whatever class it would be in? is there any spec on the roll cage tubing diameters, thickness's and positions?
cheers
fitting a different (smaller) engine isn't a problem if it would make it a better class, but obviously the space framing it pretty permanent i did read that novices were not allowed to race 2.0 turbo cars so i had it in my mind i would have to swap the engine.
say if its classed as sports libre and that needs a different Nat A Open licence is it the same cost? and can i get one as a novice?
it is (well was) road legal - if it would help i could MOT and tax it again.
i take it if we both race the car we would have to pay 2x entry fee's?
is there any link to the build regs of whatever class it would be in? is there any spec on the roll cage tubing diameters, thickness's and positions?
cheers
The MSA Blue Book 2012 is available on line (I cannot find a link to the 2013 version), but am sure a PHer can help?
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.a...
Specific Regs for Sprints, Hill Climbs and Drag Racing (S)
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentviewarticle.a...
Specific Regs for Sprints, Hill Climbs and Drag Racing (S)
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
Thanks
so i take it the sports libre class is for anything that falls outside any other class??
any my car has sierra running gear so it wouldn't be eligible for Modified Series Production Cars as:-
"The chassis or unitary construction must remain to the manufacturer’s original specification in construction and material within the wheel hub centres with the exception of....."
i can't find anything on the roll cage specs yet, is there any other reasons we wouldn't be allowed to race my car?
so i take it the sports libre class is for anything that falls outside any other class??
any my car has sierra running gear so it wouldn't be eligible for Modified Series Production Cars as:-
"The chassis or unitary construction must remain to the manufacturer’s original specification in construction and material within the wheel hub centres with the exception of....."
i can't find anything on the roll cage specs yet, is there any other reasons we wouldn't be allowed to race my car?
Page 173 refers to roll cage specs (sorry I can't add more info as I am in Road Going class and car is pretty much standard).
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
If it's 2.0 Turbo, you will need a Nat A Open licence, unless it turns up with an MOT certificate and a tax disc in the window. To get a Nat A Open licence, you need to compete in four events with a Nat B licence (not forgetting to get the clerk to sign your upgrade card) then apply for a Nat A. I believe you then need to do a further 4 events as a Nat A to upgrade to Nat A open. Basically, the reason for that is they want to know you are competent before giving you a licence to drive an F1 car flat out up a garden path. Understandable, really! The Nat A licence is about £80/year, so more expensive than a Nat B.
The short of it is that if you want to use your car on the first event, you will need to either fit a <2000cc engine or get it an MOT, insurance and get it taxed. If you don't get it back on the road, you'll also need an MSA log book for the car.
Entry fees are per driver and up to two drivers can share a car. You'll each get a full set of practice/timed runs and there's normally a dedicated changeover area where one driver hops out and the other hops in.
You need to have a good thumb through Section S of the Blue Book (you'll fit into the Sports Libre section) and that calls out which parts of Section J and Section K also applies. The Blue Book is commonly referred to as the Blur Book and you'll find out why when you start trying to work out what you should comply with! I know the appropriate sections for Sports Libre well, so ask if you have questions. Better to find out now than when the scrutineer asks you at your first event!
The short of it is that if you want to use your car on the first event, you will need to either fit a <2000cc engine or get it an MOT, insurance and get it taxed. If you don't get it back on the road, you'll also need an MSA log book for the car.
Entry fees are per driver and up to two drivers can share a car. You'll each get a full set of practice/timed runs and there's normally a dedicated changeover area where one driver hops out and the other hops in.
You need to have a good thumb through Section S of the Blue Book (you'll fit into the Sports Libre section) and that calls out which parts of Section J and Section K also applies. The Blue Book is commonly referred to as the Blur Book and you'll find out why when you start trying to work out what you should comply with! I know the appropriate sections for Sports Libre well, so ask if you have questions. Better to find out now than when the scrutineer asks you at your first event!
Carlos VanDango said:
so i take it the sports libre class is for anything that falls outside any other class??
Sports Libre is the dustbin category into which anything that doesn't fit elsewhere is chucked. Radicals, Group B rally cars, anything with the wrong engine, anything where the monococque has been massively cut about etc etc. Your car belongs there.Regarding entry fees for a shared car, you have to pay two. It is of no consequences to the costs to the event organisers whether two people enter one car or two. The only difference it makes in practical terms is a bit less paddock space (but events have to provision for a full entry of unshared cars anyway), a small saving in the time it takes for the scrutineers to complete their work and (potentially) a large amount of extra faff with running orders to accomodate both drivers.
I see....... so if we fit a 2000cc n/a engine and MOT etc. it then it would be ok to race on a national B licence (as novices) even though it would be still in the sports libre class?
I definitely think finding a scrutineer local to me is a good idea!! I see what you mean about the regs being confusing.
I definitely think finding a scrutineer local to me is a good idea!! I see what you mean about the regs being confusing.
Carlos,
Say you wanted to race, and team with your son, the CSCC Swinging 60s series offers 45 minute races with a compulsory pit stop. If two drivers want to take part, they change over then or a singleton has to get out and back in again, so evens. The race fee is about £250 but two drivers get half a race each for that, whereas (I think) sharing a car at sprints and hill climb needs two entry fees.
The Sw.60s regs are very basic, original silhouette, engine type and fuelling, so a Ford engine and carbs would get you in, I think in Class C.
See: http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/Forms/2013%2...
Of course. Mk1 Escorts go for silly money. This one, just a shell on wheels is asking 3 1/2 grand, so you could sell and go for something cheaper? The lads like Hot Hatches these days!
John
Say you wanted to race, and team with your son, the CSCC Swinging 60s series offers 45 minute races with a compulsory pit stop. If two drivers want to take part, they change over then or a singleton has to get out and back in again, so evens. The race fee is about £250 but two drivers get half a race each for that, whereas (I think) sharing a car at sprints and hill climb needs two entry fees.
The Sw.60s regs are very basic, original silhouette, engine type and fuelling, so a Ford engine and carbs would get you in, I think in Class C.
See: http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/Forms/2013%2...
Of course. Mk1 Escorts go for silly money. This one, just a shell on wheels is asking 3 1/2 grand, so you could sell and go for something cheaper? The lads like Hot Hatches these days!
John
It does not matter whatsoever what class your car is eligible for in sprinting. Just do it, have a blast driving it how it was intended and enjoy with your son. Sprinting ( as I have found to my cost ) can be chequebook racing at its best in anything other than a standard class ( even that is iffy... ) My philosophy is its just an excuse to let rip, and if you win a £10 trophy all the better. Your car sounds awesome
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Friday 13th September 19:30
I was thinking whatever class we were in we wouldn't be competitive in its class - just do it for the fun of it!
the CSCC Swinging 60s series looks fun too but i don't think my escort would be eligible as it hasn't got the original silhouette from the front view as the sierra track is wider so i fitted a 1 piece lift off fibreglass front with arches.
i dont think my escort would sell for that much in hindsight i devalued it by modifying it, but back then i only paid £270 for it, its all sierra standard front end with rear double wishbones and sierra axle, theres no rear floor in it even the boot is a fibreglass panel i dont think anyone (other than me a decade ago) would fancy it as a road car so it'd be ideal to get on the track
the CSCC Swinging 60s series looks fun too but i don't think my escort would be eligible as it hasn't got the original silhouette from the front view as the sierra track is wider so i fitted a 1 piece lift off fibreglass front with arches.
i dont think my escort would sell for that much in hindsight i devalued it by modifying it, but back then i only paid £270 for it, its all sierra standard front end with rear double wishbones and sierra axle, theres no rear floor in it even the boot is a fibreglass panel i dont think anyone (other than me a decade ago) would fancy it as a road car so it'd be ideal to get on the track
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