Classic Values, which ones next?
Discussion
Having read the thread on the 500k(!) RS 2.7, and the similar story on the CGT sitting nicely at 300k 6 years after they stopped making them for the same money, the 964RS at around 80k now and seeing 930 Turbos at 50k+ in the classifieds, it does beg the question, what would be the one to buy now?
968/928/944/924(except the CGT) don't really have the history or pedigree to go silly I don't think.
So, which 911 would be the one to have, right now, enjoy and see it hopefully skyrocket in the future?
Dare I say that the 959 at 150-200k will do the same as F40/288/F50? They seem to be loved by Porsche fans, yet unloved on the market? I know they are few and far between but so was the 288 and that hasn't stopped them hitting the big time.
968/928/944/924(except the CGT) don't really have the history or pedigree to go silly I don't think.
So, which 911 would be the one to have, right now, enjoy and see it hopefully skyrocket in the future?
Dare I say that the 959 at 150-200k will do the same as F40/288/F50? They seem to be loved by Porsche fans, yet unloved on the market? I know they are few and far between but so was the 288 and that hasn't stopped them hitting the big time.
Interesting point about the 959 and I agree the 288 Is very beautiful but lots of the price increases of these cars with Porsche has largely been about their racing heritage and I wouldn't say the 964 RS is pretty. Remember the successful Dakar rally cars had the basis of a 959 engine.
It's very much a marmite car but something tells me it could be a sleeper.,
Anyone know what these cars are like to run/service?
Are their only a few opc's that can touch them like the cgt?
Is this the reason the mileage on most cars is ridiculously low for a car made in 1986?
Crimp a Length! said:
As the housing market is very much heading back in the right direction, i reckon there is a bubble getting very thin walls and a few people going to be left with egg on their face.
Interesting comment Ed, do you relate this as across the board generally or with hi end specials ie 2.7 rs and the like?Crimp a Length! said:
As the housing market is very much heading back in the right direction, i reckon there is a bubble getting very thin walls and a few people going to be left with egg on their face.
Not sure I agree. Firstly, many serious investors are already in both markets - classics and property - and second, classic prices tend to track property (both up and down) not move in opposite directions. But if we get a property bubble - very possible - and it pops then cars are likely to follow suit a la eighties / nineties.Edited by drmark on Saturday 21st September 13:05
Crimp a Length! said:
As the housing market is very much heading back in the right direction, i reckon there is a bubble getting very thin walls and a few people going to be left with egg on their face.
It's a perfectly valid view and time will tell.I am interested though whether you are referring to skyrocketing prices of specials like the 2.7RS and 993GT2 for example or the more creeping prices of the 3.2 and 964?
My own view is that there is no bubble at all, there are other factors at play. I reckon that the worse case scenario is the market for these cars holding or very slightly dipping. But I can't see it.
We shall see!
Most cars are not an investment. I think the market got a bit giddy this summer, with some over optimistic pricing and some over enthusiastic buyers.
The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
Geneve said:
Most cars are not an investment. I think the market got a bit giddy this summer, with some over optimistic pricing and some over enthusiastic buyers.
The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
Spot on Geneve. In my humble opinion I think there is speculation driving the very top of the market which may drop off if cash switches into other 'assets'. When the Telegraph runs a piece on how well the HAGI index has done over the past 10 years versus other assets, it might be time to think about the bubble going pop. I think the gradual uptick in aircooled, GT3 etc prices are being partially pulled up by this RS factor, but also more sustainably driven by the fact that if you really truly enjoy the process of driving and being connected to your car then modern machinery doesn't deliver and you'll have to look older. Many of my friends now talk about getting a garage of different cars to do different things (track, Sunday, daily, etc) so I think this phenomenon will continue for some time. There are few modern cars that do it all IMO.The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
As for what is next, most of the obvious suspects have been covered but I think SC is really worth a look. Longer term a well cared for gen 1 996 C2 manual will look pretty appealing if every car on the market has flappy paddles, radar guided cruise control, PASM, PDCC, heated cup holders and massage seats.
Cheers
Slodge
Geneve said:
Most cars are not an investment. I think the market got a bit giddy this summer, with some over optimistic pricing and some over enthusiastic buyers.
The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
Totally agree with that. Add into the equation that good examples of air cooled cars are pretty thin on the ground and its obvious that demand will outstrip supply.The important, 'blue chip' collectables, with racing heritage, history and provenance will continue to be sought after, globally, as is the case with the best in most categories. But, IMO, a lot of run-of-the-mill stuff is already getting over inflated and fingers will get burnt.
However, there is some logic in the this market. Most new cars (and I'd include the 991, F458, MP12C, etc) are now so fast/comfortable/competent, with their paddle shifts, electric throttles and steering, bristling with chassis aids and synthesised sensations, that driver skill and involvement is being ever diluted and harder to access.
So, there may be more buyers who will want a current model for everyday tasks and an 'old school' for fun/involvement/sensation, and it's obviously easier to justify if values keep pace with the annual running costs.
That causes only one thing.
Wake up and smell the coffee !
The ship has already set sail on every single aircooled 911.
The only thing left is the 96GT cars and even arguably there, the ship is just leaving the docks as we speak !
Semi-analogue 97 GT cars ? Debateable if they will go up at all, 4.0 aside.
CGT is the only potential springer left.
I also agree on property. Prices seemed to have changed massively in the last 12 months ... much much more than any of these cars.
The ship has already set sail on every single aircooled 911.
The only thing left is the 96GT cars and even arguably there, the ship is just leaving the docks as we speak !
Semi-analogue 97 GT cars ? Debateable if they will go up at all, 4.0 aside.
CGT is the only potential springer left.
I also agree on property. Prices seemed to have changed massively in the last 12 months ... much much more than any of these cars.
Edited by jackal on Saturday 21st September 14:06
jackal said:
Wake up and smell the coffee !
The ship has already set sail on every single aircooled 911.
The only thing left is the 96GT cars and even arguably there, the ship is just leaving the docks as we speak !
Semi-analogue 97 GT cars ? Debateable if they will go up at all, 4.0 aside.
CGT is the only potential springer left.
I also agree on property. I took a look at what my rentals are worth out of curiosity and the values have moved massively in just 12 months ... much more than any of these cars have.
Spot on & if you look a lot of the stuff has been hanging around all summer, thus with the winter looming its inevitable it will just eventually drop in value.The ship has already set sail on every single aircooled 911.
The only thing left is the 96GT cars and even arguably there, the ship is just leaving the docks as we speak !
Semi-analogue 97 GT cars ? Debateable if they will go up at all, 4.0 aside.
CGT is the only potential springer left.
I also agree on property. I took a look at what my rentals are worth out of curiosity and the values have moved massively in just 12 months ... much more than any of these cars have.
I think there's certain cars that have reached their peak and sure you wont't lose but you certainly won't gain unless you buy wisely.
Put it this way i wouldn't be buying a 930 for 40k now, this is the ceiling for these IMO.
I also don't see big jumps in fat arse 993's which armchair dealers tend to pontificate big risers.
People slag the 996's & laugh as you may you get a nice early standard 996 carrera with 17's and amber lights and i think thats a safe bet to have 10-13k in if its a nice unmolested car
All the GT cars have yet to have their day i think the ship is in the docks to a degree.
Its always been speculation and crystal ball stuff but i would suggest with the property market which is certainly on the rise the classic car market will slow down...........i will have a pint on it!
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