RE: Zenos Project E10 update
Wednesday 18th September 2013
As discussed when we exclusively revealed the Zenos Project E10, to stand out in the lightweight, track friendly sports car world you need some sort of technical signature. Ariel has its 'exo skeleton' tubular chassis, KTM its beautifully crafted carbon, Lotus its bonded aluminium tub and Caterham its traditional spaceframe and timeless shape.
Patented recycled carbon from ex-Bentley manThe Zenos 'E-Platform' has a central extruded aluminium spine, attached to which will be a tub made from a patented recycled carbon fibre material developed by a former Bentley R&D man by the name of Anthony Dodworth. Retaining a claimed 70 per cent of the material properties of continuous fibre carbon. Dodworth Design's material, sandwiching a thermoplastic core between sheets of carbon, has been adopted by a mainstream manufacturer for use in the floorpan of a forthcoming product. But in the Zenos it'll play a much bigger part, literally at the core of the firm's E-series platform.
Protoype chassis shows spine and tub layoutEdwards goes on to say that the KTM X-Bow's carbon and Elise's bonded aluminium structures were investigated in the benchmarking process but both are expensive to repair, prohibitively so in some cases.
Carbon tub will straddle aluminium spine"Over the next few weeks further FEA [Finite Element Analysis] and development will hone the Zenos design prior to committing to the tooling required to produce the finished platform," says Edwards. So expect more on the project as it gathers pace towards a formal unveiling in the new year. Keep in touch with the progress here on PH and on the Zenos website.
Zenos Project E10 update
Zenos co-founder Mark Edwards explains more about the Project E10's signature chassis and materials
Patented recycled carbon from ex-Bentley man
But why go to the bother when a traditional spaceframe would have done the job? "The problem with these cars is that the shape of the product becomes locked with the chassis design and contemporary re-skinning is sometimes seen as a contradiction," says Zenos co-founder Mark Edwards. "As a result it becomes very difficult to evolve the shape of the car toward contemporary tastes." As a former Caterham man he's well aware that in the Seven's case this is all part of the appeal. But Zenos needed something different.
Protoype chassis shows spine and tub layout
Dodworth's material was cost effective but bonding it to front and rear subframes as originally considered would have run into the same problem. Inspiration for Edwards came when reading a blog about restoration of another Lotus - an Elan. "Why not saddle the spine with a tub made from the Dodworth material and harness the benefits of both material technologies?" he says.
With the design set the job of making sure it meets all the necessary safety and legislative standards has been given to ex-MIRA engineer Simon Keys of First Principle Design. Roll-over and side protection are important considerations and Keys' experience in this field will make sure the Zenos meets these goals.
Carbon tub will straddle aluminium spine
Discussion
Disagree Crack Fox. The guys involved in this have serious history in low volume cars, that alone gives them a better chance that the normal dreamers. Plus they have a full chassis mock up and are taking us through what they are doing as they go. I for one find that quite and interesting approach? I like knowing why a car has been designed or engineered a particular way as well as it being great to drive!
Edmundo2 said:
Agree. I think it's great to follow and understand the design process. Just hope they make it a beautiful shape and with the right noise!
Yes, I like the direction the first diagram is going in.I have to say I would like to see some sort of optional roof and windscreen though. As much as I'm all for aeroscreens, the weather isn't always great in this country and we do get a fair few wet trackdays....
robinessex said:
Er, if you're going to plonk a carbon tub on a backbone chassis, why not dump the chassis? That carbon cell will be much stiffer in torsion than the chassis. As a certain Mr Chapman used to say, make sure 'bits' are doing more than one thing.
Presumably because you need an awful lot more/better CFRP if you need to make it strong enough to take the load from the suspension. The BMW i3 appears to use the same fundamental design. Funny how things go full circle though. In the 60s is was moderately common to have a metal back-bone with a plastic body structure dropped on the top; now they're doing much the same thing but with a different metal and a different plastic.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th September 15:22
Edmundo2 said:
Agree. I think it's great to follow and understand the design process. Just hope they make it a beautiful shape and with the right noise!
I agree, following the whole process of design to final production of a low volume, British sports car is interesting to me.Hopefully as time goes on and we start getting details of engine, suspension and so on it may get a little more exciting.
Surely, this must be a thousand times less laborious than the same process for companies such as Mercedes, or even Lotus for that matter.
Keep the reports coming, but you don't need to inform us on things like when Zenos decide on washer thickness for seat mounts etc.
dino ferrana said:
Disagree Crack Fox. The guys involved in this have serious history in low volume cars, that alone gives them a better chance that the normal dreamers. Plus they have a full chassis mock up and are taking us through what they are doing as they go. I for one find that quite and interesting approach? I like knowing why a car has been designed or engineered a particular way as well as it being great to drive!
I agree with this, it is interesting to follow the development of the car from such an early stage. Engineering diagrams are more interesting than guessed renderings and spy shots. It is hard to see as yet, how the carbon tub will be stressed to increase the torsional stiffness of the chassis. I doubt if its just 'draped over'. If it is, there would be little use in using an expensive and stiff composite like carbon!
My guess is that there will be outriggers of some sort to couple the torsion loads to the bottom of the tub at the outer radii, increasing the stiffness this way. Who knows.
My guess is that there will be outriggers of some sort to couple the torsion loads to the bottom of the tub at the outer radii, increasing the stiffness this way. Who knows.
chickensoup said:
rather unnecessary extra foot or so on the wheelbase by having wishbones in front of the footwell
Would it be better to have less directional stability, incorrect geometry and packaging or wishbones where your feet should be in a car only someone under five foot 6 can drive.The buck used for this setup is on their site and Mark has explained the breadth of driver sizes that can be accommodated - its massive in this class of car - it's always a sea of compromises but this design seems more considered than many.
Off soapbox
kambites said:
robinessex said:
Er, if you're going to plonk a carbon tub on a backbone chassis, why not dump the chassis? That carbon cell will be much stiffer in torsion than the chassis. As a certain Mr Chapman used to say, make sure 'bits' are doing more than one thing.
Presumably because you need an awful lot more/better CFRP if you need to make it strong enough to take the load from the suspension. The BMW i3 appears to use the same fundamental design. Funny how things go full circle though. In the 60s is was moderately common to have a metal back-bone with a plastic body structure dropped on the top; now they're doing much the same thing but with a different metal and a different plastic.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 18th September 15:22
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