Premium for an M6
Discussion
I have always been puzzled by the premium BMW charge for an M6 over an M5 and am wondering if others are equally as puzzled by this or if I am missing something to please enlighten me?
They share much the same DNA with really only the bodywork being different and I am struggling to see how this can be a 22% premium over the M5 bodywork?
I may be wrong but I assume the new versions of each model are basis the older ones in that the M5 bodywork is metal whereas the M6 is a combination of plastic/composite/aluminium?
Again I may be wrong but to me I would have thought that non-metal panelling would be cheaper than metal which makes the premium even more unjustifiable? Even if I have that wrong, 22% really?
If anyone with connections, past or present with BMW would like to comment on this I would be most grateful, indeed comments from all on this matter will be well received. It maybe I am missing something fundamental and so would like to hear others opinion on this premium for the M6.
Assuming the 0% will still be around in 6 months (I think they are here to stay but again what do others think) I am looking to take advantage around March next year and for choice would really like the M6 over the M5 but cannot justify the extra premium, I just do not see how this can be so.
Now don't get me wrong I love the M5, I have had both the E39 & E60 and am a massive fan but I have always preferred the M6, I currently am lucky enough to have an E63. I know this puts me in a minority and understand it is a little like marmite (especially the rear) but I have always personally liked them.
I think my preference is mainly because of the scarcity value, agreed M5's are not an everyday occurrence on the roads but an M6 is as rare as rocking horse manure. Now one reason for this is the marmite factor but I think the main reason is this premium BMW have attached to it for both the E63 and F13 versions that make the M5 a much better choice in that you get basically the same car (engine/chassis/performance wise) for considerably less.
I love my E63 but should I pull the trigger in Qtr1 next year it will be an F10 (which I will be very happy with having driven one - they are awesome) opposed to my preferred F13 as personally the premium is way too much.
As mentioned, what do others think - discuss!
Thanks
They share much the same DNA with really only the bodywork being different and I am struggling to see how this can be a 22% premium over the M5 bodywork?
I may be wrong but I assume the new versions of each model are basis the older ones in that the M5 bodywork is metal whereas the M6 is a combination of plastic/composite/aluminium?
Again I may be wrong but to me I would have thought that non-metal panelling would be cheaper than metal which makes the premium even more unjustifiable? Even if I have that wrong, 22% really?
If anyone with connections, past or present with BMW would like to comment on this I would be most grateful, indeed comments from all on this matter will be well received. It maybe I am missing something fundamental and so would like to hear others opinion on this premium for the M6.
Assuming the 0% will still be around in 6 months (I think they are here to stay but again what do others think) I am looking to take advantage around March next year and for choice would really like the M6 over the M5 but cannot justify the extra premium, I just do not see how this can be so.
Now don't get me wrong I love the M5, I have had both the E39 & E60 and am a massive fan but I have always preferred the M6, I currently am lucky enough to have an E63. I know this puts me in a minority and understand it is a little like marmite (especially the rear) but I have always personally liked them.
I think my preference is mainly because of the scarcity value, agreed M5's are not an everyday occurrence on the roads but an M6 is as rare as rocking horse manure. Now one reason for this is the marmite factor but I think the main reason is this premium BMW have attached to it for both the E63 and F13 versions that make the M5 a much better choice in that you get basically the same car (engine/chassis/performance wise) for considerably less.
I love my E63 but should I pull the trigger in Qtr1 next year it will be an F10 (which I will be very happy with having driven one - they are awesome) opposed to my preferred F13 as personally the premium is way too much.
As mentioned, what do others think - discuss!
Thanks
Edited by shadow1964 on Thursday 19th September 11:51
Edited by shadow1964 on Thursday 19th September 11:52
There is extra cost in the M6, such as the carbon fibre roof, but most of the cost difference is probably just economies of scale. It costs much more per part to make small quantities, so all the 6 series specific parts will just cost more to make, even if they would be cheaper to make in the same quantity as 5 series parts. It's the same with any M specific part, some parts that are of inferior quality to the non M counterpart (some trim pieces for example) are more expensive because not nearly so many are made.
Most of the cost is marketing I think....a 6 series costs more than a 5 series in the same trim because it's a coupe.
There is the volume argument saying a 6 series should be more expensive but then a 5 series has two extra doors, electric window motors and all the additional manufacturing cost associated with making a four door instead of a two door.
I suspect the only justification for an M6's price is that BMW think that is the right price to pitch it at against it's rivals. BMW sales of M6's in the UK would indicate otherwise. The old model hardly sold any units in its last couple of years in production.
There is the volume argument saying a 6 series should be more expensive but then a 5 series has two extra doors, electric window motors and all the additional manufacturing cost associated with making a four door instead of a two door.
I suspect the only justification for an M6's price is that BMW think that is the right price to pitch it at against it's rivals. BMW sales of M6's in the UK would indicate otherwise. The old model hardly sold any units in its last couple of years in production.
sumo69 said:
Much of the £20k premium can be discounted from the price - someone on here got 22k off a new one recently!!
David
Yep, that'll be me! David
Yes, you can claw back some of the difference by pure negotiating but then you can probably get 2/3 of that discount on an M5, meaning you can close the gap by £8-£10k. So, bare that in mind....is an M6 worth £12k more than an M5 to you? Another financial points to bear in mind is, unless you intend paying for the car in full at the end of the term (when it really would cost a net £12k more than an M5), you can bring this £12k delta down further on BMW's 0% PCP. The residuals of the M6 are a slightly higher percentage of the (discounted) price than an M5, so the difference between deposit and MGFV don't equal the remaining £12k deficit. I hope that makes sense!
To me, it clearly was worth the extra....but for not many reasons beyond pure aesthetics, both inside and out. I like the look of the new M6 externally (contrary to most) and inside the car, the 6-series has a much more avant-garde design and feels so luxurious with the full leather option. I have to admit that the extra rarity value appealed too but, whether all thats worth £12k to you is only something you can answer.
You're right about the construction differences contributing to some of the extra cost - the carbon roof is worth, what, a £2k premium? If I remember on my old E63 version, it also had other hidden carbon bits such as the front and rear bumper mounts.
But on my F13, whilst the roof remains , I can see no carbon bumper mounts on it!! What I can say is that my E63 M6 was noticeably quicker than it's equivalent M5 - on a BMW track day it was quick enough to consistently overtake an E60 M5 on the straight which is no mean feat given the guy in the M5 claimed his was tuned (to my standard car) - my 100kg or so weight advantage was clearly working more effectively than his tune and fancy carbon intake! Not sure if this would be replicated on F13 vs F10, but I assume the M6 keeps a very slight performance advantage both in terms of pure speed and handling (although you could never justify the cost difference with the microns I'm referring to there!).
Edited by Palmball on Wednesday 18th September 21:17
Having had an E60 M5 for 3 years and my current E63 M6 for 2 years I find the differences quite interesting. I regularly return much better MPG in the M6, especially on long journeys (around 15 mpg for the M5 compared to 20 for the M6). I think that not only is it lighter, but also quite a lot more aerodynamic as well as slightly smaller. Subjectively performance wise it does feel quicker as well. It is also much rarer as others have noted. I have never thought the looks great, but friends and colleagues with little car interest think the M6 looks a really expensive kind of sports car whereas the M5 was thought to be fairly ordinary. Certainly the M6 feels a lot more special inside than the M5.
I too have been looking at a new M5/6 and, having never bought new in the past, am very tempted by the deals on them currently. However, despite my comments above I also still have this feeling that the extra premium is hard to justify. Having followed Palmballs purchase with interest (and a certain degree of envy!) I am still not sure with his comments on here as to whether the M6 is actually not much more expensive in reality or not!
I too have been looking at a new M5/6 and, having never bought new in the past, am very tempted by the deals on them currently. However, despite my comments above I also still have this feeling that the extra premium is hard to justify. Having followed Palmballs purchase with interest (and a certain degree of envy!) I am still not sure with his comments on here as to whether the M6 is actually not much more expensive in reality or not!
Thanks to all those posting their views and opinions on this topic, some valid reasons with regard aspects I had overlooked or not considered but am still thinking for choice the premium is still a little rich when buying new even considering what has been, quite correctly, offered in reply.
Base M5 £73k Base M6 £94 = £21 dif
A good top notch discount on the M5, from reading other postings is 14% whereas Palmball (whose postings I too have followed and much the same as JMDoc with much envy)appears to have got just over 18% from what I can glean on the additions he has and knowing he received a healthy £22k discount.
Now it maybe the case such an attractive discount may not have been available to a base model as opposed to his highly spec'd model but if I am ball park let's work with 14 & 18% respectively from a base model cost for purpose of this exercise.
That makes the M5 circa £63k (£73k x 14%) and the M6 circa £77k (£94k x 18%) making the dif, after discount, £14k from the original £21k a net of £7k hence my 33% conclusion. (Yes, before anyone makes the point, it is a little slow in the office today so am passing the time as much as anything. I can assure you I don't wear little round rimmed glasses with a V neck sleeve-less pullover, bring my own sandwiches to work and live at home with mum......
JMDoc - I am interested in your finding that you are getting better mpg from your M6 than the M5, I personally have found the two much the same, interested to see what others think?
Just before I close getting back to the comparative looks, I think it generally accepted the E60 is more aesthetically pleasing than the E63 but would say when the upgraded models were unveiled the new M6 is now just slightly the better looking model than its M5 counterpart?
Your comment JMDoc regarding how others view the two models is spot on, I too have encountered similar in that people do look at the M6 as a much more expensive sports car than the M5 - not sure why maybe due to the scarcity factor and the fact it is a coupe?
Regards
sumo69 said:
Much of the £20k premium can be discounted from the price - someone on here got 22k off a new one recently!!
David
Thanks for this but my 'man maths' see it slightly differently in that I would not class it as most of the premium, in real (monetary) terms it is more like £7k so 33%. David
Base M5 £73k Base M6 £94 = £21 dif
A good top notch discount on the M5, from reading other postings is 14% whereas Palmball (whose postings I too have followed and much the same as JMDoc with much envy)appears to have got just over 18% from what I can glean on the additions he has and knowing he received a healthy £22k discount.
Now it maybe the case such an attractive discount may not have been available to a base model as opposed to his highly spec'd model but if I am ball park let's work with 14 & 18% respectively from a base model cost for purpose of this exercise.
That makes the M5 circa £63k (£73k x 14%) and the M6 circa £77k (£94k x 18%) making the dif, after discount, £14k from the original £21k a net of £7k hence my 33% conclusion. (Yes, before anyone makes the point, it is a little slow in the office today so am passing the time as much as anything. I can assure you I don't wear little round rimmed glasses with a V neck sleeve-less pullover, bring my own sandwiches to work and live at home with mum......
JMDoc - I am interested in your finding that you are getting better mpg from your M6 than the M5, I personally have found the two much the same, interested to see what others think?
Just before I close getting back to the comparative looks, I think it generally accepted the E60 is more aesthetically pleasing than the E63 but would say when the upgraded models were unveiled the new M6 is now just slightly the better looking model than its M5 counterpart?
Your comment JMDoc regarding how others view the two models is spot on, I too have encountered similar in that people do look at the M6 as a much more expensive sports car than the M5 - not sure why maybe due to the scarcity factor and the fact it is a coupe?
Regards
jm doc - I'm not quite sure I said the M6 didn't cost much more than the M5 
I actually said there was probably about a £12k difference (which Shadow correctly worked out to be £14k), but, whether we're talking £12 or £14k, they're still big numbers for what is a similar car. Just not as big as £21k+
shadow - I reckon you could probably do even better than I did now. Also to confirm, the discount percentage I achieved (18.6%) was applicable regardless of spec so your calculations above should be about right.
One thing I can add as how surprised I am by the amount of attention the M6 generates. I thought it would just be viewed as another big BMW, or a nice 6 series by people who knew rather more. But it attracts attention from nearly everyone - I've been blessed with the opportunity to own a number of nice cars and this M6 easily attracts as much attention as say, my Maserati Granturismo, Jag XKR-S (in French Racing Blue) and latterly my SLS. In fact, I am stunned that without exception (and be that a car person or not) everyone prefers the looks of the M6 to the SLS.
I've never driven an F10 M5 so can't say if the drive is any different but maybe thats worth trying to see if that helps justify some of the premium. In the meantime, I sense an opportunity to share some new pics of my car....maybe this'll do the trick
I actually said there was probably about a £12k difference (which Shadow correctly worked out to be £14k), but, whether we're talking £12 or £14k, they're still big numbers for what is a similar car. Just not as big as £21k+shadow - I reckon you could probably do even better than I did now. Also to confirm, the discount percentage I achieved (18.6%) was applicable regardless of spec so your calculations above should be about right.
One thing I can add as how surprised I am by the amount of attention the M6 generates. I thought it would just be viewed as another big BMW, or a nice 6 series by people who knew rather more. But it attracts attention from nearly everyone - I've been blessed with the opportunity to own a number of nice cars and this M6 easily attracts as much attention as say, my Maserati Granturismo, Jag XKR-S (in French Racing Blue) and latterly my SLS. In fact, I am stunned that without exception (and be that a car person or not) everyone prefers the looks of the M6 to the SLS.
I've never driven an F10 M5 so can't say if the drive is any different but maybe thats worth trying to see if that helps justify some of the premium. In the meantime, I sense an opportunity to share some new pics of my car....maybe this'll do the trick
Always like to see pics of this machine, I see you have returned to your favourite/regular haunt to take them. If it transpires this is actually your back garden I apologise for the injustice of my assumption.
I am interested to find out as to why you think someone ordering now will do much better, 18.6% is right up there with the best of negotiations. Are you basing your view on quarter end approaching or other factors as well?
Fantastic car I hope you are, so far, every bit as pleased with it as you hoped you would be, very hard to better in my view.
I am interested to find out as to why you think someone ordering now will do much better, 18.6% is right up there with the best of negotiations. Are you basing your view on quarter end approaching or other factors as well?
Fantastic car I hope you are, so far, every bit as pleased with it as you hoped you would be, very hard to better in my view.
shadow1964 said:
JMDoc - I am interested in your finding that you are getting better mpg from your M6 than the M5, I personally have found the two much the same, interested to see what others think?
It is really quite marked, especially on long journeys, and my right foot is just as strong as ever!shadow1964 said:
Your comment JMDoc regarding how others view the two models is spot on, I too have encountered similar in that people do look at the M6 as a much more expensive sports car than the M5 - not sure why maybe due to the scarcity factor and the fact it is a coupe?
Regards
Certainly a rare car around here, I have only seen 2 others in 2 yearsRegards
cheers
shadow1964 said:
Always like to see pics of this machine, I see you have returned to your favourite/regular haunt to take them. If it transpires this is actually your back garden I apologise for the injustice of my assumption.
I am interested to find out as to why you think someone ordering now will do much better, 18.6% is right up there with the best of negotiations. Are you basing your view on quarter end approaching or other factors as well?
Fantastic car I hope you are, so far, every bit as pleased with it as you hoped you would be, very hard to better in my view.
Thanks, much appreciate the nice comments. I love the car, can't think of anything I'd change except maybe making it feel a little lighter as even with the Competition Pack, it's hardly something to chuck around like, say, my M3 could be. But then that would probably reduce the impact of all the other things I like so much such as the depth of quality and the huge refinement. It's worth mentioning that I can't recommend the Competition Pack highly enough (having owned the M6 without for a short period before) - it turns a car that in standard spec wasn't immune to a bit of body roll into a very flat handling car, and I can honestly say with no discernible trade off in ride comfort. It's remarkable how flat the cars stays now considering the weight transfer it has to contain.I am interested to find out as to why you think someone ordering now will do much better, 18.6% is right up there with the best of negotiations. Are you basing your view on quarter end approaching or other factors as well?
Fantastic car I hope you are, so far, every bit as pleased with it as you hoped you would be, very hard to better in my view.
Anyway, yes I reckon end of quarter you'd probably do a bit better if you find a dealer that still needs to sell some 6 series' to hit their respective model targets. Lets put it this way, I've just achieved the same 18%+ discount on a M135i to replace the my other halfs' car and that has nothing like the advertised deposit contribution that the M5/6 has. It's also a car that BMW don't need to discount as much to sell just a handful of and I'm sure if you found such a dealer, and made an offer to buy with 20-22% off, you might just get it. Note that I actually managed to achieve 22% discount off a 335d (spec'd to £49.5k, reduced to £38.6k) but the delivery was delayed until December and when I since drove the M135i, I decided that would be the more suitable car for the missus so changed the order
)I don't know where you're based but if you want me to put you in touch with the guy I deal with at Sytner Notts then send me a PM.
Oh, and yes I love taking photo's at that location with the trains - they create a nice contrasting backdrop which is a bit more interesting than my driveway and garage! It's actually at Quorn station, part of the Great Central Railway in the East Midlands. Regrettably I waste far to much money on cars to ever be in a position to have a back garden like that
Edited by Palmball on Monday 23 September 23:41
Palmball said:
jm doc - I'm not quite sure I said the M6 didn't cost much more than the M5 I actually said there was probably about a £12k difference (which Shadow correctly worked out to be £14k), but, whether we're talking £12 or £14k, they're still big numbers for what is a similar car. Just not as big as £21k+
Yes I got there in the end, with help from shadow much appreciated. I did a quick calculation on the BMW website which worked out at something close to an extra 15k configured, over 3 years, for the M6. My feeling at the moment is that the 15k might be better put toward something for the weekend to be honest! I actually said there was probably about a £12k difference (which Shadow correctly worked out to be £14k), but, whether we're talking £12 or £14k, they're still big numbers for what is a similar car. Just not as big as £21k+Great pics, especially the interior.
Regards
Palmball said:
Lets put it this way, I've just achieved the same 18%+ discount on a M135i to replace the my other halfs' car and that has nothing like the advertised deposit contribution that the M5/6 has.
So the discount is in addition to the deposit contribution which BMW quote? Hmmm...Edited by Palmball on Monday 23 September 23:41
jm doc said:
So the discount is in addition to the deposit contribution which BMW quote? Hmmm...
No, sadly not. If only!!! But the higher the deposit contribution, the less work once should need to do to get to a certain discount percentage. My point with the M135i is that car has c. £2.5k deposit contribution which is about 8% of the total cost of a (basic) car.
The M6 now has £13.5k which is 14% of the cost of a basic car (IIRC, it 'only' had £12k when I ordered mine back in June, hence another reason I think one can do slightly better now). So, to get to the 18.5% on the M6 you only need another 4.5%, but you need 10.5% on the 1 series.
Palmball - I am outer London but am used to travelling the length and breadth of the country for the right car including one trip to Belfast.
Thanks for the offer regarding the details of your contact at Sytner Notts. My sensible head has me earmarked for hopefully an end of Q1 2014 order but I do keep looking and if a dealer is prepared to shake hands on a 22% deal then I will be hard pressed not to pull the trigger.
I may well get the E63 fired up at the weekend and visit a couple of dealers local(ish)who have a used/demonstrator for sale just on the pretence of looking and once conversation starts steer it towards a factory order and see how much they cough and splutter when I throw the 22% at them.
22% would certainly go a long way to bridging the gap with the M5 and severely subdue my protest that it is too much - not that it would ever be an impenetrable steel barrier of a protest more like the little pigs straw hut type of resistance.
If they do go for it then will be a serious case of hold my nose and big plunge time but due to financial commitments and considerations with work at present now is not really ideal whereas I am hoping Q1 2014 will be a much clearer horizon for me. But that is my sensible head and after all a new model is far more economical (allegedly) on fuel so of course will be saving money there...........
If ok I will keep your offer on the back burner and see what comes of my weekend reconnaissance, if I get close to that discount may well be worth contacting your guy to see if he can get that little bit extra. Indeed, in the extremely unlikely event it transpires 22% is not a bridge too far then probably still worth tapping him up to see if he can do even better? I am not for a moment expecting this to be the case but no harm in preparing oneself for a unlikely pleasant shock.
Thanks for the offer regarding the details of your contact at Sytner Notts. My sensible head has me earmarked for hopefully an end of Q1 2014 order but I do keep looking and if a dealer is prepared to shake hands on a 22% deal then I will be hard pressed not to pull the trigger.
I may well get the E63 fired up at the weekend and visit a couple of dealers local(ish)who have a used/demonstrator for sale just on the pretence of looking and once conversation starts steer it towards a factory order and see how much they cough and splutter when I throw the 22% at them.
22% would certainly go a long way to bridging the gap with the M5 and severely subdue my protest that it is too much - not that it would ever be an impenetrable steel barrier of a protest more like the little pigs straw hut type of resistance.
If they do go for it then will be a serious case of hold my nose and big plunge time but due to financial commitments and considerations with work at present now is not really ideal whereas I am hoping Q1 2014 will be a much clearer horizon for me. But that is my sensible head and after all a new model is far more economical (allegedly) on fuel so of course will be saving money there...........
If ok I will keep your offer on the back burner and see what comes of my weekend reconnaissance, if I get close to that discount may well be worth contacting your guy to see if he can get that little bit extra. Indeed, in the extremely unlikely event it transpires 22% is not a bridge too far then probably still worth tapping him up to see if he can do even better? I am not for a moment expecting this to be the case but no harm in preparing oneself for a unlikely pleasant shock.
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