996 GT3 Mk1 - the long term view?
Discussion
How do people reckon the 996 GT3 Mk1 will be viewed in a few years time? Will it be viewed as an all-time great? Where will it rank relative to 964 and 993RS's, or the Mk2 996 GT3 (and RS variant). Will the 996 GT3 be made to look second rate when a 997 GT3 comes out? (obviously the answer will depend on how good that car is).
Obviously no-one has a crystal ball, but I'm interested in people's views of where it will fit in the wider scheme of things 911.
Reason for asking is of course that I quite fancy buying one at some point, which begs the question of what values are likely to do over the next few years. What might happen to the value of a car that worth around £50k today?
(Sorry if this has been covered before, didn't find anything from a quick search)
Chris
Obviously no-one has a crystal ball, but I'm interested in people's views of where it will fit in the wider scheme of things 911.
Reason for asking is of course that I quite fancy buying one at some point, which begs the question of what values are likely to do over the next few years. What might happen to the value of a car that worth around £50k today?
(Sorry if this has been covered before, didn't find anything from a quick search)
Chris
997 gt3 may not be loved so much as it is unsure at this stage if it will have the GT1 based lump of the special 996 models.it is rumoured to have the 3.8 out of the carrera S with a few tweaks.
The boys on titanic and Gt3 forums have discussed this on more than a few occasions,,,the concencus is that the Mk1 will probably be the one to keep over the mk2, but will not be as special as the RS.
GT3 mk1 has the more individual spoiler, a few additional lightweight engine components and it was the first of the type.
As far as values are concerned the rhd clubsport is the one, there were 28 produced and are all on the club register...thing is if you are buying a Gt3 you need to track it, despite the barrage i will get for this many of the other models in the range make better road cars.
They are probably going to suffer a little more in value as the mk2 cheapens up over the next few years.
i have driven 964,993RS & Gt3 and they are all different and respective owners tend to swear by their cars, so it is difficult to work out which will be worth the most......unless you have one of the 7 rhd 993 RSR (clubsport) cars with low mileage and never track it....what fun is that?
I would look up <a href="http://www.titanic.co.uk">www.titanic.co.uk</a> sign up and you will learn more about Gt3 than you ever wanted to know including some of their weaknesses, which have mostly been attended to by the current keepers.
>> Edited by clubsport on Tuesday 26th October 16:42
The boys on titanic and Gt3 forums have discussed this on more than a few occasions,,,the concencus is that the Mk1 will probably be the one to keep over the mk2, but will not be as special as the RS.
GT3 mk1 has the more individual spoiler, a few additional lightweight engine components and it was the first of the type.
As far as values are concerned the rhd clubsport is the one, there were 28 produced and are all on the club register...thing is if you are buying a Gt3 you need to track it, despite the barrage i will get for this many of the other models in the range make better road cars.
They are probably going to suffer a little more in value as the mk2 cheapens up over the next few years.
i have driven 964,993RS & Gt3 and they are all different and respective owners tend to swear by their cars, so it is difficult to work out which will be worth the most......unless you have one of the 7 rhd 993 RSR (clubsport) cars with low mileage and never track it....what fun is that?
I would look up <a href="http://www.titanic.co.uk">www.titanic.co.uk</a> sign up and you will learn more about Gt3 than you ever wanted to know including some of their weaknesses, which have mostly been attended to by the current keepers.
>> Edited by clubsport on Tuesday 26th October 16:42
Some say the handling of the 996 GT3 Mk1 is more predictable.
Certainly the speed of the 996 GT3 Mk2 defies logic.
And I don't think anybody is likely to fall in love with a 3.8 997 derived engine over and above the GT1 derived unit which is supposed to be absolutely bullet proof.
The original 996 GT3 is limited in numbers, whilst I am told that the Mk2 continues to be manufactured .... to fulfill demand.
The cheapest low mileage Mk2 GT3 I have seen was £65k --- a loss of £12k to it's owner in 2,500 miles. Comfort version.
I reckon my £50k would go into a good Mk1.
Now that would have been a much better investment than my CSL, but I have seen them compared as being surprisingly similar in nature.
Certainly the speed of the 996 GT3 Mk2 defies logic.
And I don't think anybody is likely to fall in love with a 3.8 997 derived engine over and above the GT1 derived unit which is supposed to be absolutely bullet proof.
The original 996 GT3 is limited in numbers, whilst I am told that the Mk2 continues to be manufactured .... to fulfill demand.
The cheapest low mileage Mk2 GT3 I have seen was £65k --- a loss of £12k to it's owner in 2,500 miles. Comfort version.
I reckon my £50k would go into a good Mk1.
Now that would have been a much better investment than my CSL, but I have seen them compared as being surprisingly similar in nature.
A Mk1 in speed yellow and CS is in my opinion one of the best track tools known to man. I love'em.
I guess they will be seen as a classic and would have one over a Mk2 and an RS.
Classic status? IMHO it already is
I have registered with the titanic but i cant read any messages? Any ideas?
all the best
adam
I guess they will be seen as a classic and would have one over a Mk2 and an RS.
Classic status? IMHO it already is
I have registered with the titanic but i cant read any messages? Any ideas?
all the best
adam
Adam,
Depending upon what mail client you use - the messages may be treated as junk mail. I use a hotmail account (to stop spam to my main mail account) and ALL the messages end up in the junk folder... this is actually a good thing since they get automatically deleted after 5 days...
BTW - the Titanic guys are a really friendly bunch... ive been lurking for a while now as I plan to buy a GT3 summer next year and im picking up all the tips as I go along! They also do a LOT of track days, so invite yourself along to one and have a chat with a few of them.
Cheers
Steve M
Depending upon what mail client you use - the messages may be treated as junk mail. I use a hotmail account (to stop spam to my main mail account) and ALL the messages end up in the junk folder... this is actually a good thing since they get automatically deleted after 5 days...
BTW - the Titanic guys are a really friendly bunch... ive been lurking for a while now as I plan to buy a GT3 summer next year and im picking up all the tips as I go along! They also do a LOT of track days, so invite yourself along to one and have a chat with a few of them.
Cheers
Steve M
Chris,
I think there was a thread earlier this year on the comparison of the Mk1 v Mk2 GT3. Most of the motoring pess including Evo and GT Purely Porsche concluded that the Mk1 was the better drivers car and it was this and the fact that the Mk1 was made in suchlimited numbers that made me go for a Mk1 and not the MK2 though the later car is a fair bit quicker and has better brakes.
The Mk1's only real weak point is the brakes which are OK on track if you've a really good confident driver and brake late and hard but getting on and off the brakes too often causes them to overheat due to inadequate cooling and the performance goes off. Many owners have spent about £500 on front disc brake cooling kits or have gone upgraded to the Mk 2 brakes as I have.
Geoff
PS Adam, you've clearly got taste when it comes to cars. I've got a MK 1 Clubsport (RHD) in Speed Yellow, one of only 28 in the country.
I think there was a thread earlier this year on the comparison of the Mk1 v Mk2 GT3. Most of the motoring pess including Evo and GT Purely Porsche concluded that the Mk1 was the better drivers car and it was this and the fact that the Mk1 was made in suchlimited numbers that made me go for a Mk1 and not the MK2 though the later car is a fair bit quicker and has better brakes.
The Mk1's only real weak point is the brakes which are OK on track if you've a really good confident driver and brake late and hard but getting on and off the brakes too often causes them to overheat due to inadequate cooling and the performance goes off. Many owners have spent about £500 on front disc brake cooling kits or have gone upgraded to the Mk 2 brakes as I have.
Geoff
PS Adam, you've clearly got taste when it comes to cars. I've got a MK 1 Clubsport (RHD) in Speed Yellow, one of only 28 in the country.
porschegeoff said:
Chris,
I think there was a thread earlier this year on the comparison of the Mk1 v Mk2 GT3. Most of the motoring pess including Evo and GT Purely Porsche concluded that the Mk1 was the better drivers car and it was this and the fact that the Mk1 was made in suchlimited numbers that made me go for a Mk1 and not the MK2 though the later car is a fair bit quicker and has better brakes.
The Mk1's only real weak point is the brakes which are OK on track if you've a really good confident driver and brake late and hard but getting on and off the brakes too often causes them to overheat due to inadequate cooling and the performance goes off. Many owners have spent about £500 on front disc brake cooling kits or have gone upgraded to the Mk 2 brakes as I have.
Geoff
PS Adam, you've clearly got taste when it comes to cars. I've got a MK 1 Clubsport (RHD) in Speed Yellow, one of only 28 in the country.
my car was the actual one reviewed in the GT purely porsche comparison.!
Its a Yellow Mk1 CS Left hooker.
porschegeoff said:
Chris,
I think there was a thread earlier this year on the comparison of the Mk1 v Mk2 GT3. Most of the motoring pess including Evo and GT Purely Porsche concluded that the Mk1 was the better drivers car and it was this and the fact that the Mk1 was made in suchlimited numbers that made me go for a Mk1 and not the MK2 though the later car is a fair bit quicker and has better brakes.
Interesting point on Mk1 v Mk2. I was at a Porsche Experience day back in Sep and my instructor (a current GT race driver) said the Mk2 was superior on track. He didn't seem to have much time for the motoring press saying "whether the car gets a good or bad review often depends on whether they liked the wine they were drinking the night before".
You're right Craig, a lot of motoring journo's have an overinflated opinion of their driving abilities and are not always objective when comparing cars.
Before I bought my Mk1, I mailed the boys on the GT3 Titanic Forum asking for an honest assessment of the relative merits of the original model and the Mk2 and a majority preferred the MK 1. Some of these guys have a lot of experience on track and can really drive so their opinion carries more weight that some article in a glossy magazine.
The MK 2 is a fantastice car but I just happen to prefer the original.
Geoff
Before I bought my Mk1, I mailed the boys on the GT3 Titanic Forum asking for an honest assessment of the relative merits of the original model and the Mk2 and a majority preferred the MK 1. Some of these guys have a lot of experience on track and can really drive so their opinion carries more weight that some article in a glossy magazine.
The MK 2 is a fantastice car but I just happen to prefer the original.
Geoff
Chris,
The mk1 GT3 is still seen as a purist car in the spirit of the RS's by many club members.
Compared to the mk2 gt3 its a sharper car with more feedback.
Cant still understand the price differential to a gt3rs and what you actually get performance wise, especially given the car is not much lighter than a standard mk2 gt3.
We raced the mk1 and gt3rs in club time trials here in SA and i'd say its not worth it.
Prices are bound to come back as we see the do with the scarcer cars. Another point in a mk1's favor is they were a limited production run of about 1500 cars, not true of the mk2 gt3
Mark
The mk1 GT3 is still seen as a purist car in the spirit of the RS's by many club members.
Compared to the mk2 gt3 its a sharper car with more feedback.
Cant still understand the price differential to a gt3rs and what you actually get performance wise, especially given the car is not much lighter than a standard mk2 gt3.
We raced the mk1 and gt3rs in club time trials here in SA and i'd say its not worth it.
Prices are bound to come back as we see the do with the scarcer cars. Another point in a mk1's favor is they were a limited production run of about 1500 cars, not true of the mk2 gt3
Mark
As the owner of a Mk2 it's somewhat disheartening to hear that the Mk1 is generally viewed as a superior drive. Exclusivity is of no concern to me, but the driving experience is.
Could someone who has lived with both cars for a long time, and driven them on both road and track, explain what are the detailed differences in handling nuances between the two?
From the above it seems to me that the Mk1 is "sharper" (and by that I assume it is meant it has a faster turn in), and has "more feedback" (and I assume that means mid-bend bumps and cambers are unfiltered and can be more obviously read through the steering wheel, also grip is more easily determined via the steering wheel).
What about traction through the bend, throttle adjustability, gearbox, brake feel and performance etc?
Can anyone elaborate?
Could someone who has lived with both cars for a long time, and driven them on both road and track, explain what are the detailed differences in handling nuances between the two?
From the above it seems to me that the Mk1 is "sharper" (and by that I assume it is meant it has a faster turn in), and has "more feedback" (and I assume that means mid-bend bumps and cambers are unfiltered and can be more obviously read through the steering wheel, also grip is more easily determined via the steering wheel).
What about traction through the bend, throttle adjustability, gearbox, brake feel and performance etc?
Can anyone elaborate?
Harris, I would post this question on either the PCGB GT3 or GT3 Titanic forum. There are guys there with a very indepth technical knowledge of all GT3 models including the RS.
From what I can gather, the Mk 2 suffers from more initial understeer and doesn't turn in as well as the MK 1 or the RS. I think this is something you would proberbly only discover on track and is something that can be fixed easily by a trip to a GT3 specialist such as Parr Garage or JZ Machtech. I know a couple of MK 2 owners who say the handling of their MK 2's has been transformed by a few minor suspension tweaks.
On the plus side, the MK 2 does have a few advantages over the MK1. It's faster,has improvded brakes and I think the ground clearance is also slightly better than on either the Mk 1 or RS.
Geoff
However,
From what I can gather, the Mk 2 suffers from more initial understeer and doesn't turn in as well as the MK 1 or the RS. I think this is something you would proberbly only discover on track and is something that can be fixed easily by a trip to a GT3 specialist such as Parr Garage or JZ Machtech. I know a couple of MK 2 owners who say the handling of their MK 2's has been transformed by a few minor suspension tweaks.
On the plus side, the MK 2 does have a few advantages over the MK1. It's faster,has improvded brakes and I think the ground clearance is also slightly better than on either the Mk 1 or RS.
Geoff
However,
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