Will Redbull dominate next season
Discussion
I wonder if the Redbull domination is coming to a end, As i understand it a lot of the aero is being removed next season.
With the new turbo engines , Does the exhaust exit behind the rear wheel center line does doing away with the blown
difuser?
With this in mind do you think Adrian will call it a day and turn his mind to Sailing.
Having just been watching the Americas Cup Catamarans , They spend more time flying on the plane and are just crying out for some of Adrians magic.
With the new turbo engines , Does the exhaust exit behind the rear wheel center line does doing away with the blown
difuser?
With this in mind do you think Adrian will call it a day and turn his mind to Sailing.
Having just been watching the Americas Cup Catamarans , They spend more time flying on the plane and are just crying out for some of Adrians magic.
Perhaps they won't be "dominant" (in the same sense as 2011), but they will most likely remain very competitive.
As for aero, recall 2009 when RBR started the season without the double-deck diffuser. They was no blown diffuser trickery back then either. Nevertheless, RBR was still a close second in the WCC, and Vettel ended up second in the WDC.
If RBR does start 2014 in a less competitive fashion - say, third or fourth fastest on the grid - they will probably catch up with the leader by the end of the season. (I would actually like to see this happen.)
As for aero, recall 2009 when RBR started the season without the double-deck diffuser. They was no blown diffuser trickery back then either. Nevertheless, RBR was still a close second in the WCC, and Vettel ended up second in the WDC.
If RBR does start 2014 in a less competitive fashion - say, third or fourth fastest on the grid - they will probably catch up with the leader by the end of the season. (I would actually like to see this happen.)
With James Allison going to Ferrari, I think (if Ferrari aren't too far down the dev of the 2014 car) they could be very strong! Look how good the Lotus is with a very limited budget.
Whilst Newey is a key member, clearly RBR have build a superb team top to bottom so will be hard to beat.
From what I understand, the engines will be pretty unstressed so I doubt there'll be much reliability problems there.
McLaren are seeming to be pretty aweful at the moment, so even by going onto the 2014 car so soon, I can't see them at the sharp end. My feeling is that 2014 will be RBR, Merc and Ferrari. Lotus will suffer from the loss of Allison and Kimi.
I also think Newey will hang around for a while yet, clearly racing is in his blood and reg changes are a new challenge. If the regs had frozen for a few more years you may see him go on a sabbatical.
Whilst Newey is a key member, clearly RBR have build a superb team top to bottom so will be hard to beat.
From what I understand, the engines will be pretty unstressed so I doubt there'll be much reliability problems there.
McLaren are seeming to be pretty aweful at the moment, so even by going onto the 2014 car so soon, I can't see them at the sharp end. My feeling is that 2014 will be RBR, Merc and Ferrari. Lotus will suffer from the loss of Allison and Kimi.
I also think Newey will hang around for a while yet, clearly racing is in his blood and reg changes are a new challenge. If the regs had frozen for a few more years you may see him go on a sabbatical.
The best bit is that we don't know :-)
The top 4 or 5 teams have the resources to win (not sure about Lotus next year...)
The rest have the potential to cause some upset.
I'm hoping that the back teams will finally be fighting in the midfield - if not they'll have to seriously think about chucking it in.
The top 4 or 5 teams have the resources to win (not sure about Lotus next year...)
The rest have the potential to cause some upset.
I'm hoping that the back teams will finally be fighting in the midfield - if not they'll have to seriously think about chucking it in.
RemarkLima said:
From what I understand, the engines will be pretty unstressed so I doubt there'll be much reliability problems there.
the base engine should be fine it'll be all the new supplemantary systems that'll be going pop
plus the fact that in order to finish the race on the amount of fuel they've been given you have to turn the wick down halfway through so expect a a big speed differential between the cars with a fully working and fully let loose engine and energy recovery system compared to one thats on fuel saving and one with say an intercooler water pump thats packed up
plus to answer the OP's topic I think Merc will be on top as the amount of effort they're putting in at Brixworth is incredible
I think they've got as good as chance as any of the other top teams. Loads of factors at play I think.
As I understand it, the teams that run their own engines have a head start, which favours Merc and Ferrari.
There's also that stage in the year when individual teams decide to switch focus from the current car to next years McL aren't going to win the CWC or WDC, it's unlikely they'll win a race in the remainder of the season, they'd be mad not to be throwing everything at 2014. Merc have already surpassed their own goals for this season, even though they're in the hunt, they might decide to stick to the plan and go for glory next year. Ferrari are probably going to fight to the death and RedBull might not fancy an upset by easing up on them. Lotus haven't got any money anyway.
Driver changes, doesn't matter IMO if it's a No1 or No2 driver coming or going, it's disruptive, they've got to learn the car with very limited testing and the designers have to try to tailor the car to them. Ferrari, RedBull and Lotus are all changing, Mercedes and McL probably aren't.
My prediction:
Lotus: Mid field runners next year - Lost Kimi & Aero guy to Ferrari and seemingly are skint.
McLaren - Howler of a year, write it off and hope to do a 'Brawn' in 2014? No driver changes, lots of money. Relationship with engine supplier not great as they're switching to Honda in 2015.
RedBull - driver change, but it won't matter much, DR is already part of the family and it's all focused towards SV anyway - slightly hampered by using a customer engine and needing to fight it out for the rest of the season.
Ferrari - new people picking up the old guy's ideas and designs, two drivers who'll either push each other, or spend all year hitting each other. Using their own engine, but it's meant to be at the weaker end of the grid. They also will fight out 2013 until the bitter end.
Mercedes - what's not to like? They're using their own engine, they're not changing drivers, they're high enough up the standings to earn some decent money on top of an already massive budget, they're ahead of the curve on their own development plan and they started 2013 already focused on 2014.
As I understand it, the teams that run their own engines have a head start, which favours Merc and Ferrari.
There's also that stage in the year when individual teams decide to switch focus from the current car to next years McL aren't going to win the CWC or WDC, it's unlikely they'll win a race in the remainder of the season, they'd be mad not to be throwing everything at 2014. Merc have already surpassed their own goals for this season, even though they're in the hunt, they might decide to stick to the plan and go for glory next year. Ferrari are probably going to fight to the death and RedBull might not fancy an upset by easing up on them. Lotus haven't got any money anyway.
Driver changes, doesn't matter IMO if it's a No1 or No2 driver coming or going, it's disruptive, they've got to learn the car with very limited testing and the designers have to try to tailor the car to them. Ferrari, RedBull and Lotus are all changing, Mercedes and McL probably aren't.
My prediction:
Lotus: Mid field runners next year - Lost Kimi & Aero guy to Ferrari and seemingly are skint.
McLaren - Howler of a year, write it off and hope to do a 'Brawn' in 2014? No driver changes, lots of money. Relationship with engine supplier not great as they're switching to Honda in 2015.
RedBull - driver change, but it won't matter much, DR is already part of the family and it's all focused towards SV anyway - slightly hampered by using a customer engine and needing to fight it out for the rest of the season.
Ferrari - new people picking up the old guy's ideas and designs, two drivers who'll either push each other, or spend all year hitting each other. Using their own engine, but it's meant to be at the weaker end of the grid. They also will fight out 2013 until the bitter end.
Mercedes - what's not to like? They're using their own engine, they're not changing drivers, they're high enough up the standings to earn some decent money on top of an already massive budget, they're ahead of the curve on their own development plan and they started 2013 already focused on 2014.
It seems RBR have a solid setup of personnel from driver, team owner, designer to even the lorry driver, so there going to be there. I don't mind people winning so much, its just why are the others so far behind?
What we want is 3-5 drivers mixing it up at the front most races. Of course, some tracks suit certain cars/drivers better.
But yea, i would of thought the main engine suppliers are all going to have solid engines, AN has shown he can make the car bit good so i guessing there up there
What we want is 3-5 drivers mixing it up at the front most races. Of course, some tracks suit certain cars/drivers better.
But yea, i would of thought the main engine suppliers are all going to have solid engines, AN has shown he can make the car bit good so i guessing there up there
Logie said:
It seems RBR have a solid setup of personnel from driver, team owner, designer to even the lorry driver, so there going to be there. I don't mind people winning so much, its just why are the others so far behind?
What we want is 3-5 drivers mixing it up at the front most races. Of course, some tracks suit certain cars/drivers better.
But yea, i would of thought the main engine suppliers are all going to have solid engines, AN has shown he can make the car bit good so i guessing there up there
As I said to the Mrs last night. If you take Vettel out of it the rest of the pack are right on top of each other. behind him it has been a really good season.What we want is 3-5 drivers mixing it up at the front most races. Of course, some tracks suit certain cars/drivers better.
But yea, i would of thought the main engine suppliers are all going to have solid engines, AN has shown he can make the car bit good so i guessing there up there
It's impossible to predict. Even the teams have no idea.
Of course, you would imagine that the best teams will make the best use of the new rules but the odds must be that at least one of them will get it wrong in one way or another.
So maybe a shake up of the current order? Maybe, but probably not by much unless someone really drops the ball.
Of course, you would imagine that the best teams will make the best use of the new rules but the odds must be that at least one of them will get it wrong in one way or another.
So maybe a shake up of the current order? Maybe, but probably not by much unless someone really drops the ball.
350Matt said:
the base engine should be fine
it'll be all the new supplemantary systems that'll be going pop
plus the fact that in order to finish the race on the amount of fuel they've been given you have to turn the wick down halfway through so expect a a big speed differential between the cars with a fully working and fully let loose engine and energy recovery system compared to one thats on fuel saving and one with say an intercooler water pump thats packed up
plus to answer the OP's topic I think Merc will be on top as the amount of effort they're putting in at Brixworth is incredible
I cant see anyone designing the cars with water cooling of the intercoolers, it's excess weight you don't need to carry, modern Intercooler cores are also very efficient.it'll be all the new supplemantary systems that'll be going pop
plus the fact that in order to finish the race on the amount of fuel they've been given you have to turn the wick down halfway through so expect a a big speed differential between the cars with a fully working and fully let loose engine and energy recovery system compared to one thats on fuel saving and one with say an intercooler water pump thats packed up
plus to answer the OP's topic I think Merc will be on top as the amount of effort they're putting in at Brixworth is incredible
The possibility of next year seeing some big changes in F1 is what keeps me interested, otherwise I think I would have given up on it.
It is not just about the engines though - there is the Aero. tyres and fuel to consider. We have aero that does not encourage close-quarters racing together with tyres and fuel rules which turn every race into an endurance event.
F1 is meant to be a sprint IMO.
I am hoping that next year will be better.
I really don't mind if RB dominate , I just want to see closer racing for longer periods in the race. Most races are essentially endurance events sprinkled with skirmishes for position at the beginning and middle. It's just not enough IMO.
It is not just about the engines though - there is the Aero. tyres and fuel to consider. We have aero that does not encourage close-quarters racing together with tyres and fuel rules which turn every race into an endurance event.
F1 is meant to be a sprint IMO.
I am hoping that next year will be better.
I really don't mind if RB dominate , I just want to see closer racing for longer periods in the race. Most races are essentially endurance events sprinkled with skirmishes for position at the beginning and middle. It's just not enough IMO.
I would have thought Red Bull are already concentrating on next years car. Something has to go seriously wrong for them to lose this year and they probably already know what they can improve. Therefore they can chuck resources at next years car, and pull them back if necessary. In the meantime other teams are having to continue with this years car to ensure they aren't overtaken.
I suspect next year Red Bull with a have a good car, but a lot will come down to the powerplant.
I suspect next year Red Bull with a have a good car, but a lot will come down to the powerplant.
Hard to say, as someone mentioned even the teams don't know. It would be nice to see a bit of a change in regards to who is leading, but with everything RB has then it's likely they will be up there. There is obviously the chance someone will do a "Brawn" and come up with something that really benefits them so they're far ahead of the rest of the teams - which then will probably be debated on if it is legal or not. McLaren are in an interesting time - new engine change so soon is not good, but they know they have been able to spend more effort on next year's car for a while. RB only learned it a few races ago. And perhaps Mercedes have done pretty well this season from what seems to be a reduction in last year's car earlier than some? Lotus will suffer - as mentioned lack of money, key people leaving.
Will they? Who knows. It will fall to who makes the most of the new Regs. Chances are that means whichever car Mr Newey designs of course BUT that is by no means a guarantee.
I think the first five or six races will be a bit like wacky races with cars all over the place and parts dropping off/failing left right and centre. Then the teams will learn and it will be whichever team can improve the fastest.
I think the first five or six races will be a bit like wacky races with cars all over the place and parts dropping off/failing left right and centre. Then the teams will learn and it will be whichever team can improve the fastest.
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