A renowned doctor discusses his imminent cancer death
Discussion
This video was published today...Dr Low was a renowned doctor in Canada, and made this video after his diagnosis of terminal brain cancer. It is quite thought-provoking....
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/09/24/dr_dona...
My personal philosophy is identical to the video. I have certainly made a living will to indicate this
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/09/24/dr_dona...
My personal philosophy is identical to the video. I have certainly made a living will to indicate this
I deal with people with terminal illness on a regular basis. I'm a great believer in assisted suicide in certain situations. It is such an emotive subject though and very personal.
Seeing the pain, suffering and anguish people go through and the fear they have is not pleasant. It also puts immense pressure on family.
Seeing the pain, suffering and anguish people go through and the fear they have is not pleasant. It also puts immense pressure on family.
Ruskie said:
I deal with people with terminal illness on a regular basis. I'm a great believer in assisted suicide in certain situations. It is such an emotive subject though and very personal.
Seeing the pain, suffering and anguish people go through and the fear they have is not pleasant. It also puts immense pressure on family.
Understand completely. In the case above , this is a rational, lucid doctor who fully comprehends his condition and is such a case I think it is sad that it was not available to him. As you stated its a very sensitive subject, but with very clear guidelines I do think that it has a place, and I expect this will become a much bigger issue as the baby boomers cycle through.Seeing the pain, suffering and anguish people go through and the fear they have is not pleasant. It also puts immense pressure on family.
Thankfully we are seeing an increase in Do not resuscitate requests in elderly patients and those with terminal illness. It saves a lot of futile resuscitation attempts. Often we would resus an elderly and frail person and get a temporary cardiac output, transport to hospital, knowing full well that this person would never survive and if they did the quality of life would be so poor it wouldn't be fair. On top of that you have family given false hope but also having to watch their loved ones being subjected to a full resuscitation attempt which is pretty horrific and undignified even with the best will in the world.
I was appalled to hear that an old friend - pushing 80 - with end-stage terminal lung cancer was subjected to a full resuscitation efford when he finally died. Can't help but feel that it reflects a real failure when it happens in such an incredibly clear-cut situation - there was truly absolutely no chance of him gaining even a single day out of it, and he knew and accepted that he was dying.
But for me that's where the line is drawn - by all means, don't attempt something that's genuinely futile, but I cannot accept active euthanasia, primarily on the grounds that I believe it to be absolutely and honestly impossible in the current climate for people not to end up feeling pressured, and equally impossible to establish effective safeguards against this.
Suspect that if more palliative care was as good as it can be, it'd address 90+% of the problem anyway. Along with maybe a bit of debunking about stuff like tube feeding which people seem genuinely terrified of without realising how trivial in day-to-day life it can be.
But for me that's where the line is drawn - by all means, don't attempt something that's genuinely futile, but I cannot accept active euthanasia, primarily on the grounds that I believe it to be absolutely and honestly impossible in the current climate for people not to end up feeling pressured, and equally impossible to establish effective safeguards against this.
Suspect that if more palliative care was as good as it can be, it'd address 90+% of the problem anyway. Along with maybe a bit of debunking about stuff like tube feeding which people seem genuinely terrified of without realising how trivial in day-to-day life it can be.
Ruskie said:
Thankfully we are seeing an increase in Do not resuscitate requests in elderly patients and those with terminal illness. It saves a lot of futile resuscitation attempts. Often we would resus an elderly and frail person and get a temporary cardiac output, transport to hospital, knowing full well that this person would never survive and if they did the quality of life would be so poor it wouldn't be fair. On top of that you have family given false hope but also having to watch their loved ones being subjected to a full resuscitation attempt which is pretty horrific and undignified even with the best will in the world.
This is exactly what happened to my Grandad when he died recently.4 Paramedics tried their absolute hardest to save him ans tried resuscitation for a good 45 minutes, there was still some electrical activity in his heart and they said the chances of him pulling through were so marginal that it was almost impossible. They still had to follow process and take him to hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival.
I asked them if they could stop trying after 20 minutes or so, but they weren't allowed to. These valiant guys tried everything in their power to keep him alove knowing that he was gone really but they did absolutely everything they could.
I know from conversations with my Grandad that he was a firm believer in 'when it's time, it's time' and he would have preferred to have been let go rather than the painful and horrible experience myself and my family had to witness.
He was a proud man and seeing him sprawled out on a bathroom floor with his clothes cut off and IV lines in him trying to be resuscitated is an image that will haunt me forever.
I have a friend who died a few years ago of skin cancer aged just 32 and I know that hif he'd had an 'out' he would have taken it. It was horrible watching him waste away into nothing.
The thing that confuses me is that if your dog/cat is in pain and their life is as good as over, it's seen as 'humane' to put them to sleep, but if a human being is dying a slow and painful death (or their body has literally given up) it's seen as 'humane' to try everything to drag their life out as long as possible.
Confusing.
Butter Face said:
The thing that confuses me is that if your dog/cat is in pain and their life is as good as over, it's seen as 'humane' to put them to sleep, but if a human being is dying a slow and painful death (or their body has literally given up) it's seen as 'humane' to try everything to drag their life out as long as possible.
Confusing.
They don't even have to be that poorly.Confusing.
Take dog/cat to vet...."Vetn'ry, my dog is poorly, can you put him to sleep please."
"ok, 100 pounds please...boom".
That is obviously very tongue in cheek but the poorly pet dog analogy cannot be applied in any way to a human being. Fully support the right to die as you please ethos though, if they can manage it effectively in other countries then why not here.
when my lass was dying we made a living will and a will and made it very clear there was a DNR statement everywhere for all to read. I've seen cancer treatment up close and personal and i've seen palliative care closer than I ever imagined. My lass died in my arms in a hospice that was the most incredibly wecloming sanctuary.
Quality of life becomes the defining statement in the life of someone terminal. Unless you are there, going through it, it's just words and statemens that mean very little, yet at 10am when the person bleeds and a relative screams 'why don't you f
king nurses do something to help her', it takes on a huge significance.
I am also a very strong believer that those in a terminal condition have the absolute right to end their lives at a time of their choosing. I hear all the arguments about potential abuse, it sways me not one bit.
Make a will people and if ever you are in the position where you know your life is ending with a terminal condition, make a living will and let those around you know it exists.
Quality of life becomes the defining statement in the life of someone terminal. Unless you are there, going through it, it's just words and statemens that mean very little, yet at 10am when the person bleeds and a relative screams 'why don't you f
king nurses do something to help her', it takes on a huge significance.I am also a very strong believer that those in a terminal condition have the absolute right to end their lives at a time of their choosing. I hear all the arguments about potential abuse, it sways me not one bit.
Make a will people and if ever you are in the position where you know your life is ending with a terminal condition, make a living will and let those around you know it exists.
drivin_me_nuts said:
when my lass was dying we made a living will and a will and made it very clear there was a DNR statement everywhere for all to read. I've seen cancer treatment up close and personal and i've seen palliative care closer than I ever imagined. My lass died in my arms in a hospice that was the most incredibly wecloming sanctuary.
Quality of life becomes the defining statement in the life of someone terminal. Unless you are there, going through it, it's just words and statemens that mean very little, yet at 10am when the person bleeds and a relative screams 'why don't you fking nurses do something to help her', it takes on a huge significance.
I am also a very strong believer that those in a terminal condition have the absolute right to end their lives at a time of their choosing. I hear all the arguments about potential abuse, it sways me not one bit.
Make a will people and if ever you are in the position where you know your life is ending with a terminal condition, make a living will and let those around you know it exists.
DMN...agree with you completely. I have such a will, not just filed with my lawyer, but also with my doctor so that all is clear. The decision of of course an intensely personal one and for those who wish to take all available treatment, this is just as valid as for those who wish to finish it In my case, I worry that if I am in a coma or otherwise unable to make the decision, ( Alzhheimers for instance) I want my wishes to be crystal clear. I also agree that relatives should know so that the decision to withdraw treatment is clearly pre-decided and does not put people in the position of making a decision that many find impossible.Quality of life becomes the defining statement in the life of someone terminal. Unless you are there, going through it, it's just words and statemens that mean very little, yet at 10am when the person bleeds and a relative screams 'why don't you f
king nurses do something to help her', it takes on a huge significance.I am also a very strong believer that those in a terminal condition have the absolute right to end their lives at a time of their choosing. I hear all the arguments about potential abuse, it sways me not one bit.
Make a will people and if ever you are in the position where you know your life is ending with a terminal condition, make a living will and let those around you know it exists.
There is scope to stop after 20 minutes of Advanced Life Support if there is no electrical activity. The protocols are there to protect patients, families and ambulance staff.
On the other side of the coin, some families request that absolutely everything is done to save a patients life, even in the most futile of situations where patients have literally no quality of life. It may be futile but it gives comfort and a sense that everything possible was done.
In these situations depending on who I am talking to I try to be honest 100%. If we get an output back I will normally say "Their heart is beating again, bit they are very, very poorly and the chances of survival are still low. However we are doing everything in our power to make sure he/she survives. "
On the other side of the coin, some families request that absolutely everything is done to save a patients life, even in the most futile of situations where patients have literally no quality of life. It may be futile but it gives comfort and a sense that everything possible was done.
In these situations depending on who I am talking to I try to be honest 100%. If we get an output back I will normally say "Their heart is beating again, bit they are very, very poorly and the chances of survival are still low. However we are doing everything in our power to make sure he/she survives. "
I'm all for people choosing when to go. Like mentioned I would put my dog down if it's life was effectively over and it was suffering, so I want that option for me personally also!
My only real concern s that some people are just scum. I could see some of the pond life that inhibit uk pushing their own mum into going ahead with it for no reason other than her care home bills were going to wipe out a potential inheritance if she done something as annoying as stay alive a few more years...
My only real concern s that some people are just scum. I could see some of the pond life that inhibit uk pushing their own mum into going ahead with it for no reason other than her care home bills were going to wipe out a potential inheritance if she done something as annoying as stay alive a few more years...
KFC said:
I'm all for people choosing when to go. Like mentioned I would put my dog down if it's life was effectively over and it was suffering, so I want that option for me personally also!
My only real concern s that some people are just scum. I could see some of the pond life that inhibit uk pushing their own mum into going ahead with it for no reason other than her care home bills were going to wipe out a potential inheritance if she done something as annoying as stay alive a few more years...
There have t be very clear safeguards, and the decision should be that of the individual, or, if the individual has left a living will, then for the executors. I do not think we are talkng euthanasia here, but assisted voluntary and rational suicide. I understand and agree with your concern, but this can be addressed with a very clear set of rules.My only real concern s that some people are just scum. I could see some of the pond life that inhibit uk pushing their own mum into going ahead with it for no reason other than her care home bills were going to wipe out a potential inheritance if she done something as annoying as stay alive a few more years...
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