What is the final - nail in the coffin for modern cars
Discussion
I appreciate this has probably been done to death.
I was discussing this with my old man today and was wondering what's the biggest killer of modern cars?
Turbo's, DMF's, Clutches, Injectors, ECU's, electrical problems, rust, engine failure, general MOT failure?
I suppose the long and short of it is basically the costs of the repair outweigh the cost of replacing the whole car.
I was discussing this with my old man today and was wondering what's the biggest killer of modern cars?
Turbo's, DMF's, Clutches, Injectors, ECU's, electrical problems, rust, engine failure, general MOT failure?
I suppose the long and short of it is basically the costs of the repair outweigh the cost of replacing the whole car.
Boredom I would say. The amount of people who trade a perfectly good car just to spend thousands on a shiny new one that will be out of vogue in 6 months anyway. That and keeping up with neighbours. Most modern cars are pretty solid and reliable and would last a lot longer than most people keep them.
Proprietary software & hardware in the car networks.
If I have a Ford and have a problem with the immobiliser and it turns out to be the control unit I have to buy a replacement part from Ford, then I need to have it programmed by Ford to work with the rest of the control units in the car.
If my mate has a BMW with a similar fault he needs to go to BMW.
Repeat for every manufacturer. And don't think that brands that share tech will be the same - invariably they aren't, mostly different software.
5-8 years down the road the manufacturer decides to discontinue the parts. Now what ? find a second hand part and get the dealer to program it ? Would they even do that ?
I know of a car that had a fault with the interior phone kit. Car goes to the main dealer, diagnosed as a control unit fault, old part has been discontinued and replaced with a similar, but not identical unit - software is different too. Turns out the new stuff is incompatible with the audio system in the car - so that needs upgrading. The only way to upgrade the audio stuff is to put a CD with the upgrade in to the CD autochanger and follow a sequence to enable a programming mode.
Except this doesn't work, because the autochanger in the car won't read data discs. So a new CD changer is fitted that will read data discs. Now, the audio system is upgraded, it wont speak to the control unit for the in dash screen, so that gets updated too. Now, the control unit for ventilation controls won't talk to the screen unit.. and it goes on and on. Final bill ? £2000. Car had been bought cheap at auction, any saving was eaten up by the repair cost.
Cars are going to get scrapped for this sort of issue.
If they all used the same generic components and used the same protocols/base software 3rd parties would be able to cheaply & effectively repair vehicles. As it is this needs massive investment from the 3rd party to learn and deal with each manufacturer system.
I don't think the mechanical side or rust will kill them.
If I have a Ford and have a problem with the immobiliser and it turns out to be the control unit I have to buy a replacement part from Ford, then I need to have it programmed by Ford to work with the rest of the control units in the car.
If my mate has a BMW with a similar fault he needs to go to BMW.
Repeat for every manufacturer. And don't think that brands that share tech will be the same - invariably they aren't, mostly different software.
5-8 years down the road the manufacturer decides to discontinue the parts. Now what ? find a second hand part and get the dealer to program it ? Would they even do that ?
I know of a car that had a fault with the interior phone kit. Car goes to the main dealer, diagnosed as a control unit fault, old part has been discontinued and replaced with a similar, but not identical unit - software is different too. Turns out the new stuff is incompatible with the audio system in the car - so that needs upgrading. The only way to upgrade the audio stuff is to put a CD with the upgrade in to the CD autochanger and follow a sequence to enable a programming mode.
Except this doesn't work, because the autochanger in the car won't read data discs. So a new CD changer is fitted that will read data discs. Now, the audio system is upgraded, it wont speak to the control unit for the in dash screen, so that gets updated too. Now, the control unit for ventilation controls won't talk to the screen unit.. and it goes on and on. Final bill ? £2000. Car had been bought cheap at auction, any saving was eaten up by the repair cost.
Cars are going to get scrapped for this sort of issue.
If they all used the same generic components and used the same protocols/base software 3rd parties would be able to cheaply & effectively repair vehicles. As it is this needs massive investment from the 3rd party to learn and deal with each manufacturer system.
I don't think the mechanical side or rust will kill them.
Blakewater said:
A lot of stuff is beyond what someone with a Haynes manual can do at home so high garage charges to do jobs can make repairs uneconomical. Some scrapyards buy functioning cars from auctions and break them because there is a high demand for parts for those cars.
I used to do nearly all my own repairs but I don't dare touch my current car. The 1995 Escort I had was a piece of piss to work on and the 1999 Mondeo I had was only harder due to lack of space in the engine bay. Things started getting complicated with the 2002 Focus I had, what with all the different types of bolts and fastenings, so some work I got done at the garage.
My current car is a 2008 Grand Picasso and as I said I don't dare touch it. The front bumper could do with being replaced due to clipping a high kerb but even that is fastened to the car in a way in which the whole front, from the headlights down, is interlocked into place all the way round to the front wings. Changing the bumper literally means taking off all the front of the car, the headlights and the 2 front wings. In comparison I once had to change the rear bumper on my Mondeo which was simply several bolts that had to be unscrewed from within the car. The only thing that made that difficult was that some of the bolts had rusted.
trackerjack said:
Emissions for future MOT,s and electronic over complexity.
Rust does not stand a chance to kill a modern before these do.
Agreed. The electronics, wiring and complexity of ECU's makes electrical component failure the biggest candidate. Serious structural rust arrives long after the electrics on modern cars have failed.Rust does not stand a chance to kill a modern before these do.
The current killer is people buying new cars, devaluing older cars by huge amounts, so that when a car gets to 10-12 years old, they are worth about a grand for a fully functioning car, and why bother spending £500-600 on servicing, tyres, and whatever little parts they need when you can just bin it and get something else.
UK used car prices are some of the lowest in the world, it seems the act of bolting together parts makes the "whole" worth less.
UK used car prices are some of the lowest in the world, it seems the act of bolting together parts makes the "whole" worth less.
what do you mean by modern?
my 99 mondeo was killed by a combo of rust and (if that hadn't got it) eventually a lack of servicing (hadn't serviced it in 28,000 miles by the end, as it was on nearly 200k, and was rusty as hell)
mrs has a 2003 Ka, will go the same way.
can't contribute on other cars as my current daily is a 944 s2, but that'll probably be killed by rust too. Basically, parts get cheap, but labour stays a similar cost. if you find a job that takes a long time (clutches are often one) they can wipe out £800 without batting an eyelid - suspect rust will still be the biggest killer over the next 3-4 years. complex electrics are coming in, but we said that when fuel injection came in and I've never seen a car killed by its injection ECU (i guess it's happened, but its rare) - such parts are generally cheap (when cars come to the low cost mark, lots are breaking) and relatively easy to fit.
my 99 mondeo was killed by a combo of rust and (if that hadn't got it) eventually a lack of servicing (hadn't serviced it in 28,000 miles by the end, as it was on nearly 200k, and was rusty as hell)
mrs has a 2003 Ka, will go the same way.
can't contribute on other cars as my current daily is a 944 s2, but that'll probably be killed by rust too. Basically, parts get cheap, but labour stays a similar cost. if you find a job that takes a long time (clutches are often one) they can wipe out £800 without batting an eyelid - suspect rust will still be the biggest killer over the next 3-4 years. complex electrics are coming in, but we said that when fuel injection came in and I've never seen a car killed by its injection ECU (i guess it's happened, but its rare) - such parts are generally cheap (when cars come to the low cost mark, lots are breaking) and relatively easy to fit.
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