Chocolate mousse in my radiator?!
Discussion
Ok, so when I bought my Spitty (blind off ebay)the seller had "recently restored" bla bla bla...long story short, he did my legs and the car was a mess. Anyway, took it to a local garage to put it right. One of the things the garage did was chuck my old radiator, and put a nice shiny reconditioned one in.
Today, I opened the cap to check levels etc, and was greeted by what I can only describe as chocolate mousse, bubbling out the top! Now, like I have said before, I am unfortunately no mechanic.....but even with my limited mechanical knowledge, i'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any tasty desert based yoghurts lurking in my radiator? I am obviously going to flush the rad, and refill with some new antifreeze, but does anyone know what is causing this? Is it rust from within?
Today, I opened the cap to check levels etc, and was greeted by what I can only describe as chocolate mousse, bubbling out the top! Now, like I have said before, I am unfortunately no mechanic.....but even with my limited mechanical knowledge, i'm pretty sure there shouldn't be any tasty desert based yoghurts lurking in my radiator? I am obviously going to flush the rad, and refill with some new antifreeze, but does anyone know what is causing this? Is it rust from within?
As soon as you mentioned oil and water etc it made sense. A couple of weeks ago, one of the water return pipes developed a hole in it. It left a line of oily water behind me. I fixed the pipe, but clearly there was some mixing of oil and water at this stage, which is no doubt where it has come from then. I will clean it out and hopefully that'll sort it. Thanks for your help.
why did the garage put a reconned rad in(?) ask them if you don't know
take the car back to that garage and ask them about the chocolate moouse in your rad - could it be the use of an old 'dogs turd' or liquid or powder (but I think they turn white) - http://www.barsproducts.com/catalog/brand/all/comp...
are you sure it was (engine) oil in the coolant(?), mayonnaise type stuff in the oil, sometimes it's found on the underside of the oil filler cap because of condensation from too many short journeys - or HGF (head gasket failure)
you can get home tests kits to check for gases in the coolant (or even just litmus paper) or a good garage will have the kit to test for HGF
only this week we had a lady on another forum where a mechanic had changed a water pump, but lady still had problems so he changed some pipes and then not a clue - then it was properly diagnosed and found to be HGF
don't risk it, you can drive the car with HGF for quite a while and not realise it until it's repaired, it's a lot easier to recognise with hindsight, so get it checked
the head gasket is just a few quid but when it goes if it's left and the car badly overheats you could be into hundreds of pounds of repairs
as for thoroughly cleaning the coolant system you have a very easy method, the secondary engine cooling is from engine oil and again you have details on thorough oil and filter changes
take the car back to that garage and ask them about the chocolate moouse in your rad - could it be the use of an old 'dogs turd' or liquid or powder (but I think they turn white) - http://www.barsproducts.com/catalog/brand/all/comp...
are you sure it was (engine) oil in the coolant(?), mayonnaise type stuff in the oil, sometimes it's found on the underside of the oil filler cap because of condensation from too many short journeys - or HGF (head gasket failure)
you can get home tests kits to check for gases in the coolant (or even just litmus paper) or a good garage will have the kit to test for HGF
only this week we had a lady on another forum where a mechanic had changed a water pump, but lady still had problems so he changed some pipes and then not a clue - then it was properly diagnosed and found to be HGF
don't risk it, you can drive the car with HGF for quite a while and not realise it until it's repaired, it's a lot easier to recognise with hindsight, so get it checked
the head gasket is just a few quid but when it goes if it's left and the car badly overheats you could be into hundreds of pounds of repairs
as for thoroughly cleaning the coolant system you have a very easy method, the secondary engine cooling is from engine oil and again you have details on thorough oil and filter changes
Edited by nta16 on Wednesday 25th September 14:12
nta16 said:
just thought - are you perhaps referring to rust and crud transported in from the rest of the cooling system in which case a thorough clean should sort most if not all of this
I must admit I also initially read it as chocolate mouse rather than mousse, DOH!
My thoughts too tbh. I'd back flush the whole system a few times, refill with water & try it for a day. If it stays clean then drain & put anti-freeze back in.I must admit I also initially read it as chocolate mouse rather than mousse, DOH!
I expect the garage swapped the radiator because the car was running hot. It's likely a head gasket IMO, and changing the radiator for a really good one is just masking the symptom. It's not the end of the world though - with the camshaft running in the block on these engines it's an easy enough fix and easily possible for anyone with a spanner and the ability to read a haynes manual.
Ok, you'll have to bear with me on this, and take into account my limited and basic (but improving) knowledge of mechanics.
I got the car blind off eBay. First mistake. (stupid I know, but I took a gamble...and lost). I got it, and something clearly wasn't right, so I took it to a local garage who I had seen working on a couple of classics now and again. Where I live, garages are rare enough, so it's not like I had the luxury of choice of picking a classic friendly garage!
Pointed out a list of problems I had identified, and basically said "and anything else you find". Didn't discuss quotes, or money at all. Second mistake.
6 months...yes SIX months later, I finally got the car back....and the final bill.....£2,700. Turns out the engine was knackered. The garage guy had it re-bored, new crank shaft, big ends, pistons, everything. Radiator was also close to useless, and this was his reason for replacing that. He also sorted a couple of minor electrical problems, and sorted a leaking fuel tank (which, it turns out was leaking into the boot where the bare live wires were rubbing against the metal body tub. Nice)
So....car by this point owes me the best part of 6.5k, and is still far from perfect. It's going to need welding around the windscreen surround, and eventually a respray as the guy I bought it off, as part of his "full restoration" had indeed had it resprayed...with one coat of paint.
Still struggle to get the car over 60, and there's an endless amount of little niggles that can do with being put right.
So there we are...my entry into classic car ownership. I don't regret buying a classic car. And I will keep working on this one until it is nice. But that's the story behind this particular thread...and what has led to the chocolate mousse...not mouse ;-) issue. Which, incidentally I think I may have resolved. To say lessons have been learned already is an understatement....but we do live and learn.
Iv been most impressed by the knowledge and generosity/willingness to help of the people on here. And thanks you for your help so far.
I got the car blind off eBay. First mistake. (stupid I know, but I took a gamble...and lost). I got it, and something clearly wasn't right, so I took it to a local garage who I had seen working on a couple of classics now and again. Where I live, garages are rare enough, so it's not like I had the luxury of choice of picking a classic friendly garage!
Pointed out a list of problems I had identified, and basically said "and anything else you find". Didn't discuss quotes, or money at all. Second mistake.
6 months...yes SIX months later, I finally got the car back....and the final bill.....£2,700. Turns out the engine was knackered. The garage guy had it re-bored, new crank shaft, big ends, pistons, everything. Radiator was also close to useless, and this was his reason for replacing that. He also sorted a couple of minor electrical problems, and sorted a leaking fuel tank (which, it turns out was leaking into the boot where the bare live wires were rubbing against the metal body tub. Nice)
So....car by this point owes me the best part of 6.5k, and is still far from perfect. It's going to need welding around the windscreen surround, and eventually a respray as the guy I bought it off, as part of his "full restoration" had indeed had it resprayed...with one coat of paint.
Still struggle to get the car over 60, and there's an endless amount of little niggles that can do with being put right.
So there we are...my entry into classic car ownership. I don't regret buying a classic car. And I will keep working on this one until it is nice. But that's the story behind this particular thread...and what has led to the chocolate mousse...not mouse ;-) issue. Which, incidentally I think I may have resolved. To say lessons have been learned already is an understatement....but we do live and learn.
Iv been most impressed by the knowledge and generosity/willingness to help of the people on here. And thanks you for your help so far.
Almost forgot.....
Among the things my close to 3 grand garage bill was meant to have fixed was the fuel gauge and temp gauge. Fuel gauge is still not working, despite him replacing the float (I did actually see him do this), and when I later told him the temp gauge was still U/S, he said that this was because he had removed the thermostat...something he always does after an engine rebuild until it has had a chance to run in?!?!
Among the things my close to 3 grand garage bill was meant to have fixed was the fuel gauge and temp gauge. Fuel gauge is still not working, despite him replacing the float (I did actually see him do this), and when I later told him the temp gauge was still U/S, he said that this was because he had removed the thermostat...something he always does after an engine rebuild until it has had a chance to run in?!?!
you’re still in low money compared to my Triumph mistake and I’d owed classics for 15+ years by then, I cut my very considerable losses by selling the car very cheap – every heard the expression “putting good money after bad” don’t get caught doing that, it's a truly vicious circle
having said that these cars are simple so you might perhaps be able to get it running reasonably for a reasonable time before cutting your losses
did the garage guy not tell you a running-in procedure he wanted you to follow?, when to change the oil from this? and when he wanted to re-torque the head?
did he not set up the tappets, points, plugs, timing and carbs from the rebuild? (although these will need checking and adjusting again before the next schedule service) – how many miles have you put on the engine since the rebuild?
have you, (yes you) checked the air filters or anything else?, you don’t need to know much (I certainly don’t) you follow the Owner’s Handbook
fuel and temp gauges could be simple wiring issues
the temp gauge will still operate with or without a thermostat – I’m not keen on the stat being missing, if I was suspicious I would think it was to mask overheating, you certainly need it for autumn and winter and early spring use
I’m also not keen on cars running without coolant which I wonder if that might be the case with you – the coolant/antifreeze carries anti-corrosion elements (that wear out before the anti-freeze elements which is why you change your anti-freeze regularly and even before the anti-freeze elements need changing)
again when you run the car in the winter (and you’re going to need to to sort it) you need coolant (anti-freeze) in the cooling/heating systems or they might freeze up and damage your rad and engine
I’ve no idea where you live but I’d guess there’d be some sort of classic car club somewhere near perhaps even a Triumph one where the members could look at your car and offer advice, if you’re near me I could tell you the very little I know (wouldn’t take long)
I see from your profile pic you made the newbie mistake of buying a freshly painted (possibly a fur coat no knickers job) wire wheeled car – I’ve bought three “fully restored” cars in the past and had to have much work redone on them – after the first one I should have known better but I didn’t but that was in the days when I had more net disposable income, the last mistake I bought from someone I thought was a friend and then I took it a botch and con-artist that trades as a Triumph specialist expert and is well supported (because he supports them) by the TSSC and some customers that don’t know better – there are many s
ts in the motor trade but there are a few really good people too (like John Yarnell of JY Classics, a proper Triumph specialist)
apart from answering the questions above - if you want to - you need to find out from your garage guy why the performance is so poor (subject to you having followed any running-in or other instructions he gave you)
having said that these cars are simple so you might perhaps be able to get it running reasonably for a reasonable time before cutting your losses
did the garage guy not tell you a running-in procedure he wanted you to follow?, when to change the oil from this? and when he wanted to re-torque the head?
did he not set up the tappets, points, plugs, timing and carbs from the rebuild? (although these will need checking and adjusting again before the next schedule service) – how many miles have you put on the engine since the rebuild?
have you, (yes you) checked the air filters or anything else?, you don’t need to know much (I certainly don’t) you follow the Owner’s Handbook
fuel and temp gauges could be simple wiring issues
the temp gauge will still operate with or without a thermostat – I’m not keen on the stat being missing, if I was suspicious I would think it was to mask overheating, you certainly need it for autumn and winter and early spring use
I’m also not keen on cars running without coolant which I wonder if that might be the case with you – the coolant/antifreeze carries anti-corrosion elements (that wear out before the anti-freeze elements which is why you change your anti-freeze regularly and even before the anti-freeze elements need changing)
again when you run the car in the winter (and you’re going to need to to sort it) you need coolant (anti-freeze) in the cooling/heating systems or they might freeze up and damage your rad and engine
I’ve no idea where you live but I’d guess there’d be some sort of classic car club somewhere near perhaps even a Triumph one where the members could look at your car and offer advice, if you’re near me I could tell you the very little I know (wouldn’t take long)
I see from your profile pic you made the newbie mistake of buying a freshly painted (possibly a fur coat no knickers job) wire wheeled car – I’ve bought three “fully restored” cars in the past and had to have much work redone on them – after the first one I should have known better but I didn’t but that was in the days when I had more net disposable income, the last mistake I bought from someone I thought was a friend and then I took it a botch and con-artist that trades as a Triumph specialist expert and is well supported (because he supports them) by the TSSC and some customers that don’t know better – there are many s
ts in the motor trade but there are a few really good people too (like John Yarnell of JY Classics, a proper Triumph specialist)apart from answering the questions above - if you want to - you need to find out from your garage guy why the performance is so poor (subject to you having followed any running-in or other instructions he gave you)
woodytype S said:
People often say to me ,I would love to own a classic car !
I ask them,what work can you do on the car ? if the reply is nothing
I tell them to forget it.(unless you have a bottom less pot full of money)
Ah but disagree with this!! How can you learn if you never try? That is why I bought this car...you can't get much more basic than a spitfire! I know what you're saying though...luckily...at he moment, I have a few spare quid to play wit. Not much mind, and its quickly dwindling, but I want to give it a ago.I ask them,what work can you do on the car ? if the reply is nothing
I tell them to forget it.(unless you have a bottom less pot full of money)
nta16 said:
you’re still in low money compared to my Triumph mistake and I’d owed classics for 15+ years by then, I cut my very considerable losses by selling the car very cheap – every heard the expression “putting good money after bad” don’t get caught doing that, it's a truly vicious circle
having said that these cars are simple so you might perhaps be able to get it running reasonably for a reasonable time before cutting your losses
did the garage guy not tell you a running-in procedure he wanted you to follow?, when to change the oil from this? and when he wanted to re-torque the head?
did he not set up the tappets, points, plugs, timing and carbs from the rebuild? (although these will need checking and adjusting again before the next schedule service) – how many miles have you put on the engine since the rebuild?
have you, (yes you) checked the air filters or anything else?, you don’t need to know much (I certainly don’t) you follow the Owner’s Handbook
fuel and temp gauges could be simple wiring issues
the temp gauge will still operate with or without a thermostat – I’m not keen on the stat being missing, if I was suspicious I would think it was to mask overheating, you certainly need it for autumn and winter and early spring use
I’m also not keen on cars running without coolant which I wonder if that might be the case with you – the coolant/antifreeze carries anti-corrosion elements (that wear out before the anti-freeze elements which is why you change your anti-freeze regularly and even before the anti-freeze elements need changing)
again when you run the car in the winter (and you’re going to need to to sort it) you need coolant (anti-freeze) in the cooling/heating systems or they might freeze up and damage your rad and engine
I’ve no idea where you live but I’d guess there’d be some sort of classic car club somewhere near perhaps even a Triumph one where the members could look at your car and offer advice, if you’re near me I could tell you the very little I know (wouldn’t take long)
I see from your profile pic you made the newbie mistake of buying a freshly painted (possibly a fur coat no knickers job) wire wheeled car – I’ve bought three “fully restored” cars in the past and had to have much work redone on them – after the first one I should have known better but I didn’t but that was in the days when I had more net disposable income, the last mistake I bought from someone I thought was a friend and then I took it a botch and con-artist that trades as a Triumph specialist expert and is well supported (because he supports them) by the TSSC and some customers that don’t know better – there are many sts in the motor trade but there are a few really good people too (like John Yarnell of JY Classics, a proper Triumph specialist)
apart from answering the questions above - if you want to - you need to find out from your garage guy why the performance is so poor (subject to you having followed any running-in or other instructions he gave you)
Hmmm....interesting. I get what yours saying about the good money after bad...and I suppose it's hard for you to say if that is the case with this car without seeing it. I don't think the car is a total write off.having said that these cars are simple so you might perhaps be able to get it running reasonably for a reasonable time before cutting your losses
did the garage guy not tell you a running-in procedure he wanted you to follow?, when to change the oil from this? and when he wanted to re-torque the head?
did he not set up the tappets, points, plugs, timing and carbs from the rebuild? (although these will need checking and adjusting again before the next schedule service) – how many miles have you put on the engine since the rebuild?
have you, (yes you) checked the air filters or anything else?, you don’t need to know much (I certainly don’t) you follow the Owner’s Handbook
fuel and temp gauges could be simple wiring issues
the temp gauge will still operate with or without a thermostat – I’m not keen on the stat being missing, if I was suspicious I would think it was to mask overheating, you certainly need it for autumn and winter and early spring use
I’m also not keen on cars running without coolant which I wonder if that might be the case with you – the coolant/antifreeze carries anti-corrosion elements (that wear out before the anti-freeze elements which is why you change your anti-freeze regularly and even before the anti-freeze elements need changing)
again when you run the car in the winter (and you’re going to need to to sort it) you need coolant (anti-freeze) in the cooling/heating systems or they might freeze up and damage your rad and engine
I’ve no idea where you live but I’d guess there’d be some sort of classic car club somewhere near perhaps even a Triumph one where the members could look at your car and offer advice, if you’re near me I could tell you the very little I know (wouldn’t take long)
I see from your profile pic you made the newbie mistake of buying a freshly painted (possibly a fur coat no knickers job) wire wheeled car – I’ve bought three “fully restored” cars in the past and had to have much work redone on them – after the first one I should have known better but I didn’t but that was in the days when I had more net disposable income, the last mistake I bought from someone I thought was a friend and then I took it a botch and con-artist that trades as a Triumph specialist expert and is well supported (because he supports them) by the TSSC and some customers that don’t know better – there are many s
ts in the motor trade but there are a few really good people too (like John Yarnell of JY Classics, a proper Triumph specialist)apart from answering the questions above - if you want to - you need to find out from your garage guy why the performance is so poor (subject to you having followed any running-in or other instructions he gave you)
The body tub itself is solid. I have pulled up all the carpets, and the floor is pristine, as is the boot. I suspect this has all been replaced, but its pretty nice. There are a couple of areas where attention will be needed in the future, but the majority of the chassis and tub are good.
When I had the car back from the garage, the only things he said really, were not to race the engine too much for the first 500 odd miles. I have done just over 600 miles since the rebuild.
Garage man put new K&N's on to replace some cheap crappy old filters which were on...I haven't checked them yet, as im guessing they should be good for well over the amount of miles I have done?
I have been checking the little fuel filter....when he overhauled the engine, this kept filling up with gunk and the replaced it a few times, but it seems to be clear enough now.
I took the car to work last night. Turns out that one of my colleague prior to this job, was a mechanic by trade and brought up around classic cars, and knows his stuff. He had a quick (5 minute look before the bosses saw) look, and has already identified a couple of issues. He is a very helpful chap and is going to tinker with the car for me. He already identified that the rotor arm was lose (a spring was absent from within the actual arm??) and it was connecting with the carbon bush and burning. I have ordered a new one, and im confident even I can fit it. Iv also ordered some new needles, as he reckons chances are the old ones are worn. He checked the carbs and they are low on oil, so im just going to go and top up that now. What do you think about this advice??
I really am in the arse end of nowhere,, tucked right away in the very south west of wales... I am a member of TSSC, but the nearest meet is a considerable distance away unfortunately.
Also...most of the running gear looks new. There's very little that looks old, and the MOT couldn't pick up anything as I asked them to do a proper job. The pictures the previous guy sent me did show all new gear. In my opinion...hhe either ran out of time, money or expertise, and seceded to jump ship. He has basically done a piss-poor job, and with a few more hundred pounds, and a few more weeks, could have made a much better go of it.
I have topped up the antifreeze after flushing the rad through yesterday.
I have topped up the antifreeze after flushing the rad through yesterday.
Sounds like matey at work is more use than your mechanic, rotor arm & spring could be the solution to your performance issues, oil in the dashpots(carbs) also a basic service item. He knew where to look straight away, useful guy to know.
And the thermostat thing is just manure, although I have had more than my share of faulty new stats so have been known to run a car without one for a few weeks to rule out other problems.
If the engine has been rebuilt it may just be passing coolant through much better than before, and flushing all the crud out from the unrestored sections, such as the heater matrix and the rusty pipes (internally) like the one that went pop before. I'd try a chemical flush with the heater tap open.
And the thermostat thing is just manure, although I have had more than my share of faulty new stats so have been known to run a car without one for a few weeks to rule out other problems.
If the engine has been rebuilt it may just be passing coolant through much better than before, and flushing all the crud out from the unrestored sections, such as the heater matrix and the rusty pipes (internally) like the one that went pop before. I'd try a chemical flush with the heater tap open.
pacoryan said:
Sounds like matey at work is more use than your mechanic, rotor arm & spring could be the solution to your performance issues, oil in the dashpots(carbs) also a basic service item. He knew where to look straight away, useful guy to know.
And the thermostat thing is just manure, although I have had more than my share of faulty new stats so have been known to run a car without one for a few weeks to rule out other problems.
If the engine has been rebuilt it may just be passing coolant through much better than before, and flushing all the crud out from the unrestored sections, such as the heater matrix and the rusty pipes (internally) like the one that went pop before. I'd try a chemical flush with the heater tap open.
Thanks mate. He opened the bonnet, and within literally a couple of minutes had found the problems iv mentioned. I'm sure he can find a few more when he has some time. Just pisses me off that its so hard to find a good, and more importantly, honest garage. Hopefully these little and cheap changes will help. Not too worried about the thermostat....ran the car over those hot hot weeks we had this summer, nd it didn't overheat or anything. And the thermostat thing is just manure, although I have had more than my share of faulty new stats so have been known to run a car without one for a few weeks to rule out other problems.
If the engine has been rebuilt it may just be passing coolant through much better than before, and flushing all the crud out from the unrestored sections, such as the heater matrix and the rusty pipes (internally) like the one that went pop before. I'd try a chemical flush with the heater tap open.
I'd stick with matey at work & loose the garage personally.
Running without a stat is daft, yes we've all done it for various reasons but it's not needed on a rebuilt engine. If the engine & engine oil etc doesn't get to temp I can't see it running in properly. Remember running cold is as bad as running hot, it increases bore wash & the oil stays too thick to get everywhere amongst other things.
Running without a stat is daft, yes we've all done it for various reasons but it's not needed on a rebuilt engine. If the engine & engine oil etc doesn't get to temp I can't see it running in properly. Remember running cold is as bad as running hot, it increases bore wash & the oil stays too thick to get everywhere amongst other things.
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