Major road works... why not 24/7 work?
Discussion
Not a moan, but just idle thought.
Just driven back from south London which has necessitated some time on the M25 and a slog up the M1. There are road works on the M25 some time after coming through the dartford tunnel. 50 mph limits etc and it was getting rather congested and slow. Now, I don't do a lot of travelling, but when I do its at the weekend and whenever I am down there I see no one working on the road works.
This is one of the most important roads in the UK surely, so why not get the work done as fast as they can by having it worked on 24/7? When working on a power station retrofit, they employed enough people to work 3 separate shifts and give everyone one day off a week so that the job could go on, uninterrupted for 3 months straight. They do this because for every day the power station is closed, its losing out on £millions in power generation revenue. So it is done as fast as possible in order to minimise the outage time.
So...
Why not for important roads like the M25 and the M1, which carry a vast amount of traffic? At what point do the savings made by having minimal work crew get wiped out by money lost because people and goods get stuck in the road network for too long? Does that even happen or is there generally minimal impact on money made by businesses that rely on the roads? (i.e. they just need person x or product y to get to its destination and time doesn't really matter). We are very dependant on our roads and we have, in some places, more users than is comfortable for certain portions of our network. Is every effort being made to make sure this flows as freely as possible? or are we simply unable to keep with the demand? (road users grow faster than the roads can be built and improved and being a small island, not enough space to really realize the best solutions)
Not a moan, not a rant, just a question. Im sure there will be people on here who will know.
Just driven back from south London which has necessitated some time on the M25 and a slog up the M1. There are road works on the M25 some time after coming through the dartford tunnel. 50 mph limits etc and it was getting rather congested and slow. Now, I don't do a lot of travelling, but when I do its at the weekend and whenever I am down there I see no one working on the road works.
This is one of the most important roads in the UK surely, so why not get the work done as fast as they can by having it worked on 24/7? When working on a power station retrofit, they employed enough people to work 3 separate shifts and give everyone one day off a week so that the job could go on, uninterrupted for 3 months straight. They do this because for every day the power station is closed, its losing out on £millions in power generation revenue. So it is done as fast as possible in order to minimise the outage time.
So...
Why not for important roads like the M25 and the M1, which carry a vast amount of traffic? At what point do the savings made by having minimal work crew get wiped out by money lost because people and goods get stuck in the road network for too long? Does that even happen or is there generally minimal impact on money made by businesses that rely on the roads? (i.e. they just need person x or product y to get to its destination and time doesn't really matter). We are very dependant on our roads and we have, in some places, more users than is comfortable for certain portions of our network. Is every effort being made to make sure this flows as freely as possible? or are we simply unable to keep with the demand? (road users grow faster than the roads can be built and improved and being a small island, not enough space to really realize the best solutions)
Not a moan, not a rant, just a question. Im sure there will be people on here who will know.
giggity said:
Exactly this, road works should take place during the evenings and late night, feckers just want more fuel revenue no doubt.
With unemployment being as it is surely people would take on the work?
When I lived in Middlesbrough they improved the a19 in this way. Working only nights. Worked very well and caused minimal pain. However , it is a minnow compared to say the m1.With unemployment being as it is surely people would take on the work?
OP, I fully agree.
I use the southern stretch of the M25 every day... I know these chaps are probably all very productive and that everyone needs a break... but even at 7am in the morning I see many, many hi-viz jackets just looking at stuff with plant drivers sitting in cabs reading The Sun.
The urgency to get things done quickly is not evident from where I sit.
I use the southern stretch of the M25 every day... I know these chaps are probably all very productive and that everyone needs a break... but even at 7am in the morning I see many, many hi-viz jackets just looking at stuff with plant drivers sitting in cabs reading The Sun.
The urgency to get things done quickly is not evident from where I sit.
Matt UK said:
OP, I fully agree.
I use the southern stretch of the M25 every day... I know these chaps are probably all very productive and that everyone needs a break... but even at 7am in the morning I see many, many hi-viz jackets just looking at stuff with plant drivers sitting in cabs reading The Sun.
The urgency to get things done quickly is not evident from where I sit.
At uni (and granted, there is no urgency in the job here) it took about 3 weeks to re-tarmac a stretch of road not more than 70 m long. I mean that is a long time for something so short, but there weren't that many guys working on it to be honest. Still if that reflects the work rate of the average highways worker then I guess places like the M25 road works will appear to have a perpetual quality to them.I use the southern stretch of the M25 every day... I know these chaps are probably all very productive and that everyone needs a break... but even at 7am in the morning I see many, many hi-viz jackets just looking at stuff with plant drivers sitting in cabs reading The Sun.
The urgency to get things done quickly is not evident from where I sit.
Its a topic for another thread, but I think in this country there is too much of the "f
k it that'll do attitude". The same attitude that thinks a single garden shed, with one person manning it, to sell and provide pick up for pre-booked tickets for a large castle attraction on a bank holiday weekend is a good enough provision. The same attitude that put half my kitchen cabinet doors on upside down and considered it "good enough". I don't know if its laziness or rushing to get the work done.The parts where there is no-one working at the time, might be unsafe to reopen at the moment, no barrier?, works equipment on the H/S/verge? electrical parts able to be touched? Drains open? there could be loads of reasons why a particular part of a stretch of roadworks is not open. They do things along a long length of major roadworks in *Blocks* until it comes together, the final part being the c/way swept and the roadmarkings re-done, then they reopen it.
Gafferjim said:
The parts where there is no-one working at the time, might be unsafe to reopen at the moment, no barrier?, works equipment on the H/S/verge? electrical parts able to be touched? Drains open? there could be loads of reasons why a particular part of a stretch of roadworks is not open. They do things along a long length of major roadworks in *Blocks* until it comes together, the final part being the c/way swept and the roadmarkings re-done, then they reopen it.
Oi, begone with your knowledge and rationale explanations. This thread has the makings of a good rant from those who know nothing about the subject matter.
You may of course stay, but please keep quiet and refrain from diverting us away from our chosen course.
Most work is done overnight without day closures.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/pla...
However on saying this there are certain types of works that are unsuitable for night working unless cost is unimportant. Equally there are cases where the work can not be completed in an overnight block so day closures are required. Concrete barriers are good example these also highlight why 24hrs may not be possible due to suppliers not being "open" or needed to wait for curing.
http://www.highways.gov.uk/news/press-releases/pla...
However on saying this there are certain types of works that are unsuitable for night working unless cost is unimportant. Equally there are cases where the work can not be completed in an overnight block so day closures are required. Concrete barriers are good example these also highlight why 24hrs may not be possible due to suppliers not being "open" or needed to wait for curing.
Otispunkmeyer said:
Well yes
But is there some sort of feedback loop whereby the government is hurting its own tax revenue by having a overly congested road for too long a time period?
Is there evidence that less work and revenue gets done?But is there some sort of feedback loop whereby the government is hurting its own tax revenue by having a overly congested road for too long a time period?
I've had horrible delays (flights, trains and car) and it just spreads my work into the evening / weekends. End outcome for the business is the same.
valais said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Well yes
But is there some sort of feedback loop whereby the government is hurting its own tax revenue by having a overly congested road for too long a time period?
Is there evidence that less work and revenue gets done?But is there some sort of feedback loop whereby the government is hurting its own tax revenue by having a overly congested road for too long a time period?
I've had horrible delays (flights, trains and car) and it just spreads my work into the evening / weekends. End outcome for the business is the same.
Matt UK said:
End outcome is the same for your business, but may not be the same for the pub / restaurant / cinema / sports center / shop / Pay-per-view-movie businesses who may have had some more income if you had enjoyed an evening at your leisure. Just a thought.
I think people still spend the money, they just do it on a different day...Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff