Discussion
So here's my 1989 TVR S1 (or possibly S1.5, depending how you decipher your S-series TVRs!)
I work in a kit-car workshop, which also specialises in TVRs (mainly the chassis refurbishment side of things, as they can rust pretty badly underneath).
I've had a TVR before - a 1995 TVR Chimaera 400 I bought with my wife way back in 2007. We both loved that car, but we had twin boys in 2009, and also bought our first house in 2011. Financially, something had to go
Fast forward to the end of June this year, and I found myself (by chance) the owner of my second TVR. It's one of the original S models, fitted with the 2.8i Ford Cologne V6 engine which we all know from the Capri 2.8i and Sierra XR4i. Most S-series cars ran the 2.9i V6 Cologne, which featured EFI. This runs a Bosch K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection system, which initially I took to be the work of satan, but am slowly warming to the character of its imperfectness! In fact the same could be said of the engine. Ask me my opinion of a Cologne V6 a year ago, and I'd have told you a heavy, tappety, massively inefficient mess! Well, in fairness it's probably still some of those things, but you know what? I like it! I know the power/litre ratio is woeful, and I know siamese exhaust ports suck, but as an engine it's got bags of character! I shouldn't like it, but I do.
How did I end up with it? well, it's a pretty odd scenario - this car was brought to my workshop (collected from the customer on a trailer from Surrey by me, in fact) nearly exactly a year before. Originally we were picking it up to right a few wrongs on the car, namely a pretty serious exhaust manifold blow, and a full service.
The exhaust leak turned out to be a cracked manifold each side. The manifolds themselves had rusted to the heads, and took more than a day to free off/chip away at. They were replaced with a stainless ACT system.
As I proceeded to service this car (which I would later end up buying) I noticed that it had had some outrigger repair work in the past, and not a decent job from what I could see (I later found out through the history it was carried out by a well-known TVR specialist!). Further inspection revealed a fair bit of rot in the corners.
I contacted the customer, and he asked me to proceed with removing the body and sorting the chassis out proper. I explained we had a long waiting list, and wouldn't be able to attend to it for a long time, to which he said he didn't mind - he had other toys to play with.
So that 'long time' (a year, in the end....I did warn him!) passed and the S was parked in the workshop ready for the list of work to be rolled out:
I commented to my colleague Steve that I really liked that car, and always fancied an S at some point. I often caught myself looking at it!
I informed the customer (who to this day I've never met) that the car was ready for work to commence. I received a very apologetic email back explaining that unforeseen circumstances had just dictated that he needed to sell the car. Did I know anyone who was interested? Ermm, yeah as it goes....me! A deal was struck, money transferred....I finally owned an S! I'd never driven it, mind, and only heard it run once. But the condition was good (under the dust!) and I was confident that if there were any issues with it, I could sort them out.
When I did get a chance to get it out of the workshop for a quick go, I was pleased/ecstatic at how TVR had managed to improve the sound of a Cologne V6!
I also popped the car on the dyno to assess the health of the engine. The factory quoted figure is 160bhp, but I'd already been educated by my Ford-loving FIL that the 160bhp quoted for the Capri 2.8i over the 150bhp for the Sierra and Granada models is a load of b
ks! I'd been further educated by him and other friends who know a bit about Colognes that in fact, 150bhp is optimistic too, with 140bhp being a good figure and 120-130 possible.
I wasn't after numbers to go and brag in a pub about, but in terms of assessing the health of the engine, I wasn't too put out by the result:
(Plenty of time to improve that anyway!)
The car was MoT'd, but it was a close-call with the chassis rot. Before the tester had a chance to tell me it won't pass next year, I told him the plans I already had in my head - I was going to strip the car right down and rebuild it, improving it all along the way!
In the meantime I've been enjoying the car thoroughly. I love the feel of it - it's nothing like a Chimaera, it feels much lighter (though in reality it's only 100kg or so lighter than a Chim). The steering is lovely, with no PAS and a very direct feel with about as quick a gearing setup as you'd dare fit to a non-PAS road car (it can be tricky to park!)
The engine really isn't bad on the move. I had more experience of the 2.9 unit in various forms, and although I find it gruntier all round, it doesn't rev as sweetly as the 2.8, which seems to demand more revs to extract the power. The tappet noise does my head in, but I know that's just the nature of the beast. I'm pretty sure I can improve the situation there, anyway.
The gearbox is ok too, being the Type 9 unit. The gearshift is less than ideal though - the gearlever in an S sits quite far back down the tunnel, meaning a stretch back to get it into 2nd or 4th. It's because the engine is mounted so far back, so at least you get near 50/50 weight balance for the inconvenience!
The ride's not on Chimaera or Griffith levels (which are both really, really good considering the type of car they are) but it's not too bad and if you sit at 70mph in the motorway it's actually still pretty comfortable too.
I also love the looks; really well proportioned from most angles. It looks and feels like a classic, rather than a fast sports car, and that's pretty much what I wanted. It's not fast....it's not even quick (my BX 16v would eat it), but I've always said about the slower TVRs (Wedge, Chim 400, S etc) that it's not about how fast they go, but how they go fast. This car would be outstripped by diesel Volvos (and has been), but I really don't care - it's still a hoot!
Downsides? Well, the gearshift for one. The backlit dials at night are either really dim, or completely unreadable. And the door mirrors? They're a total joke - the passenger side may as well not even be there! Oh, and the exhaust might sound great, but it's really badly designed and sits literally a few inches off the deck - it gets absolutely hammered by speed humps, even at crawling speeds
So what's the plan for the S? Well, until November time (ish), drive it. Won't be very often, sadly (I've only managed to cover 65 miles since the beginning of August ) but I'll use it when I can.
Then, the refurb/upgrade work will start!
I work in a kit-car workshop, which also specialises in TVRs (mainly the chassis refurbishment side of things, as they can rust pretty badly underneath).
I've had a TVR before - a 1995 TVR Chimaera 400 I bought with my wife way back in 2007. We both loved that car, but we had twin boys in 2009, and also bought our first house in 2011. Financially, something had to go
Fast forward to the end of June this year, and I found myself (by chance) the owner of my second TVR. It's one of the original S models, fitted with the 2.8i Ford Cologne V6 engine which we all know from the Capri 2.8i and Sierra XR4i. Most S-series cars ran the 2.9i V6 Cologne, which featured EFI. This runs a Bosch K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection system, which initially I took to be the work of satan, but am slowly warming to the character of its imperfectness! In fact the same could be said of the engine. Ask me my opinion of a Cologne V6 a year ago, and I'd have told you a heavy, tappety, massively inefficient mess! Well, in fairness it's probably still some of those things, but you know what? I like it! I know the power/litre ratio is woeful, and I know siamese exhaust ports suck, but as an engine it's got bags of character! I shouldn't like it, but I do.
How did I end up with it? well, it's a pretty odd scenario - this car was brought to my workshop (collected from the customer on a trailer from Surrey by me, in fact) nearly exactly a year before. Originally we were picking it up to right a few wrongs on the car, namely a pretty serious exhaust manifold blow, and a full service.
The exhaust leak turned out to be a cracked manifold each side. The manifolds themselves had rusted to the heads, and took more than a day to free off/chip away at. They were replaced with a stainless ACT system.
As I proceeded to service this car (which I would later end up buying) I noticed that it had had some outrigger repair work in the past, and not a decent job from what I could see (I later found out through the history it was carried out by a well-known TVR specialist!). Further inspection revealed a fair bit of rot in the corners.
I contacted the customer, and he asked me to proceed with removing the body and sorting the chassis out proper. I explained we had a long waiting list, and wouldn't be able to attend to it for a long time, to which he said he didn't mind - he had other toys to play with.
So that 'long time' (a year, in the end....I did warn him!) passed and the S was parked in the workshop ready for the list of work to be rolled out:
I commented to my colleague Steve that I really liked that car, and always fancied an S at some point. I often caught myself looking at it!
I informed the customer (who to this day I've never met) that the car was ready for work to commence. I received a very apologetic email back explaining that unforeseen circumstances had just dictated that he needed to sell the car. Did I know anyone who was interested? Ermm, yeah as it goes....me! A deal was struck, money transferred....I finally owned an S! I'd never driven it, mind, and only heard it run once. But the condition was good (under the dust!) and I was confident that if there were any issues with it, I could sort them out.
When I did get a chance to get it out of the workshop for a quick go, I was pleased/ecstatic at how TVR had managed to improve the sound of a Cologne V6!
I also popped the car on the dyno to assess the health of the engine. The factory quoted figure is 160bhp, but I'd already been educated by my Ford-loving FIL that the 160bhp quoted for the Capri 2.8i over the 150bhp for the Sierra and Granada models is a load of b
ks! I'd been further educated by him and other friends who know a bit about Colognes that in fact, 150bhp is optimistic too, with 140bhp being a good figure and 120-130 possible.I wasn't after numbers to go and brag in a pub about, but in terms of assessing the health of the engine, I wasn't too put out by the result:
(Plenty of time to improve that anyway!)
The car was MoT'd, but it was a close-call with the chassis rot. Before the tester had a chance to tell me it won't pass next year, I told him the plans I already had in my head - I was going to strip the car right down and rebuild it, improving it all along the way!
In the meantime I've been enjoying the car thoroughly. I love the feel of it - it's nothing like a Chimaera, it feels much lighter (though in reality it's only 100kg or so lighter than a Chim). The steering is lovely, with no PAS and a very direct feel with about as quick a gearing setup as you'd dare fit to a non-PAS road car (it can be tricky to park!)
The engine really isn't bad on the move. I had more experience of the 2.9 unit in various forms, and although I find it gruntier all round, it doesn't rev as sweetly as the 2.8, which seems to demand more revs to extract the power. The tappet noise does my head in, but I know that's just the nature of the beast. I'm pretty sure I can improve the situation there, anyway.
The gearbox is ok too, being the Type 9 unit. The gearshift is less than ideal though - the gearlever in an S sits quite far back down the tunnel, meaning a stretch back to get it into 2nd or 4th. It's because the engine is mounted so far back, so at least you get near 50/50 weight balance for the inconvenience!
The ride's not on Chimaera or Griffith levels (which are both really, really good considering the type of car they are) but it's not too bad and if you sit at 70mph in the motorway it's actually still pretty comfortable too.
I also love the looks; really well proportioned from most angles. It looks and feels like a classic, rather than a fast sports car, and that's pretty much what I wanted. It's not fast....it's not even quick (my BX 16v would eat it), but I've always said about the slower TVRs (Wedge, Chim 400, S etc) that it's not about how fast they go, but how they go fast. This car would be outstripped by diesel Volvos (and has been), but I really don't care - it's still a hoot!
Downsides? Well, the gearshift for one. The backlit dials at night are either really dim, or completely unreadable. And the door mirrors? They're a total joke - the passenger side may as well not even be there! Oh, and the exhaust might sound great, but it's really badly designed and sits literally a few inches off the deck - it gets absolutely hammered by speed humps, even at crawling speeds
So what's the plan for the S? Well, until November time (ish), drive it. Won't be very often, sadly (I've only managed to cover 65 miles since the beginning of August
) but I'll use it when I can.Then, the refurb/upgrade work will start!
Edited by Kitchski on Tuesday 18th November 22:41
Edited by Kitchski on Tuesday 18th November 22:48
Plans for work over the winter:
(That little lot will need refurbing, and yes I know I'm missing a caliper!)
- Take body off the chassis
- FULL chassis refurbishment, involving stripping it down, shotblasting, remove all rot, thermal zinc-spray and powdercoat (colour to be decided, but likely white as I think it was originally when new).
- Partially strip engine, decoke, clean heads up, new gaskets, Burton power cam kit (not sure which one)
- Clean & paint engine, gearbox, all suspension and braking components....everything basically.
- Fit these Granada rocker covers I just won on eBay:
- Rear disc conversion (S has drums):
(That little lot will need refurbing, and yes I know I'm missing a caliper!)
- MX-5 door mirror conversion
- Fit an LSD (S1 originally had open type, but does use 100mm bolt-on driveshafts, luckily).
- Get it all back together and then fanny around being too worried to drive it in case I chip the chassis
Good for you, the S is a great little car, I've had two chimaeras and have promised myself a 911 as my next toy, deep down I know if someone puts a Tuscan under my nose the temptation could prove too much, Tvrs to me are about the way they make you feel, the noise and it doesn't matter which model it is, they all have that effect.
I'll have to put my fingers in my ears if I go looking , the exhaust note gets me every time.
I'll have to put my fingers in my ears if I go looking , the exhaust note gets me every time.
Evo said:
Good for you, the S is a great little car, I've had two chimaeras and have promised myself a 911 as my next toy, deep down I know if someone puts a Tuscan under my nose the temptation could prove too much, Tvrs to me are about the way they make you feel, the noise and it doesn't matter which model it is, they all have that effect.
I'll have to put my fingers in my ears if I go looking , the exhaust note gets me every time.
Try working around them everyday....you can't test drive a car to check it without thinking "yeah I'd quite fancy one of these!"I'll have to put my fingers in my ears if I go looking , the exhaust note gets me every time.
St John Smythe said:
I had the S2 with the later engine and to be honest found it more fun to drive than my Chimaera! Great cars 
I would agree, I think it is more fun than a Chimaera. A Chimaera is a better car in pretty much every way, but I still think the S is more fun. And that's something I'd read before I got it.CarlosV8 said:
We have worryingly similar taste in cars!! After I sold my Chim I quite fancied one of these as a route back into TVR ownership somewhere down the line. But you've beaten me to it (again!)
Looks like a great little project though, look forward to seeing some more progress!
We do!Looks like a great little project though, look forward to seeing some more progress!
But absolutely mate, go for it. They seem really cheap at the moment, even compared with Chims. It feels older (obviously) and much smaller & lighter than a Chim. More character too, but it's not as good as a Chim overall. But in terms of smiles per pound, I think it might be on an equal level.
The time finally came where I could leave the S no longer:
Started by stripping the front end down, made easier by the ability to remove the complete front end bodywork with the bonnet/clip!
Stripping the seats out to get at all the rusty pegs that used to be M10 bolts, which hold the body on:
Starting to remove the body:
Bits of rusty chassis start to expose themselves:
You have to pull the body up at a crazy angle on the S models to get the transmission tunnel section of the body to release from the chassis. It's horrible to do!
But we got there:
I have a folder full of history with the car, which suggests it had outrigger work around 2005/2006. I could see from underneath that some new sections had been cut 'n shut into place, but just before we pulled the body off, we found it looks like they were only welded and painted around the bottom of the tube (access to the top is prevented as the body is in the way):
Also found some smart-arse thought it a good idea to drill holes in the chassis to fill the inside with Waxoyl, or something:
Logic says it's a good idea, but I know the only times the rust internally is if a hole appears and moisture gets in. Otherwise they're often as-new internally. So because of those drilled holes:
Chassis number was there.....once:
I've started stripping the chassis down, but I'm doing it in spare/odd hours, so it'll be a slow burner. That said, ideally I want it done for the summer to use as a demo car. I'm going to town on it - way more than any sane person with an S1 would, purely as they're not worth all that much and it's hard to justify the expense of a refurb (which will likely cost more!)
So next step is strip chassis down and see what comes back from the grit-blasters!
Started by stripping the front end down, made easier by the ability to remove the complete front end bodywork with the bonnet/clip!
Stripping the seats out to get at all the rusty pegs that used to be M10 bolts, which hold the body on:
Starting to remove the body:
Bits of rusty chassis start to expose themselves:
You have to pull the body up at a crazy angle on the S models to get the transmission tunnel section of the body to release from the chassis. It's horrible to do!
But we got there:
I have a folder full of history with the car, which suggests it had outrigger work around 2005/2006. I could see from underneath that some new sections had been cut 'n shut into place, but just before we pulled the body off, we found it looks like they were only welded and painted around the bottom of the tube (access to the top is prevented as the body is in the way):
Also found some smart-arse thought it a good idea to drill holes in the chassis to fill the inside with Waxoyl, or something:
Logic says it's a good idea, but I know the only times the rust internally is if a hole appears and moisture gets in. Otherwise they're often as-new internally. So because of those drilled holes:
Chassis number was there.....once:
I've started stripping the chassis down, but I'm doing it in spare/odd hours, so it'll be a slow burner. That said, ideally I want it done for the summer to use as a demo car. I'm going to town on it - way more than any sane person with an S1 would, purely as they're not worth all that much and it's hard to justify the expense of a refurb (which will likely cost more!)
So next step is strip chassis down and see what comes back from the grit-blasters!
Edited by Kitchski on Tuesday 18th November 22:48
Kitchski said:
Erm....
No, it's a Cologne.
Complicated as both had many displacements, but I recall the Cologne was available in 2.8 and the 2.9,while the Essex was a (primarily) 3.0+ engine, and only available smaller size was as a 2.5, rather than 2.8 or 2.9.No, it's a Cologne.
Great thread resurrection BTW!
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