Middle rear seat passengers need a break.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Round about this time of year I start to keep my eyes open for a nice big estate car to replace my old E Class Estate should it be written off as not worth fixing come MOT time. Something I'm noticing and is really pissing me off (though not quite to rant level) is how poorly catered for the middle rear seat passenger is in almost all modern cars regardless of size. Latest car of interest to be struck off the list is the current Honda Accord Estate(hardly a small car) who's heavily sculpted rear seat leaves the passenger sitting on a hard high perch that is only any use for short journeys. It's not just Honda, just about every manufacturer is at the same game, two sculpted year seats, a huge armrest the top of which pops up to provide a cup holder (two cups) and folds away to leave a very uncomfortable occasional middle seat.

I know there are options that cater for 5 (7 even) paasengers but I prefer real cars to that top heavy MPV and SUV nonsense that the family driver tends to gravitate towards these days.

[randlemarcus]

Tannedbaldhead said:

I know there are options that cater for 5 (7 even) paasengers but I prefer real cars to that top heavy MPV and SUV nonsense that the family driver tends to gravitate towards these days.

Why do you think they gravitate that way? Do you really think it's because they all wake up and discover that they have lost all taste and decency in car choices, or, just possibly, do you think it's because they can actually fit three kids in the back seat, in various flavours of gargantuan car seat, and still be able to fit the dog in the boot of the odd shaped things?

[Tannedbaldhead]

randlemarcus said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

I know there are options that cater for 5 (7 even) paasengers but I prefer real cars to that top heavy MPV and SUV nonsense that the family driver tends to gravitate towards these days.

Why do you think they gravitate that way? Do you really think it's because they all wake up and discover that they have lost all taste and decency in car choices, or, just possibly, do you think it's because they can actually fit three kids in the back seat, in various flavours of gargantuan car seat, and still be able to fit the dog in the boot of the odd shaped things?

You're absolutely right. The problem could be solved by a decent old fashioned rear bench on a conventional Estate. My Dad could get three teenagers to Italy and back in relative comfort in an Austin Maxi which wasn't much bigger than a Fiat Punto. Try the same thing in a 5 Series BM and the middle seat passenger is going to have numb bum or a sore arse.

[Vladimir]

Strangely, our LR Defender 110 had three proper seats in the back - all comfortable. Sadly it had all the side impact protection of a C5 which is partly how they fit in.

Our BMW 335d Touring middle seat is a joke. And because of the "kitchen" units in our camper, it's strictly two only in the back - so our big van only carries four people!

[ian_c_uk]

Three daughters. I hear you. 308SW shows it can be done, even in a fairly small car - I guess the market isn't big enough for others to offer the same.

(or, side impact crash tests are making manufacturers bring the outer two passengers "in")

[Bill]

Been there, done that. The SMax is the least compromised and hides its size well.

[Hugo a Gogo]

I really don't know why manufacturers don't offer a proper 3-seat bench, even as an option

3 separate seats like a Berlingo would fit in any mid-to-large saloon or estate

[Tannedbaldhead]

Hugo a Gogo said:

I really don't know why manufacturers don't offer a proper 3-seat bench, even as an option

3 separate seats like a Berlingo would fit in any mid-to-large saloon or estate

This is pretty much my point. Space isn't the big issue it's the shaping of the rear seat.

[Dapster]

SMAX is the way forward! Middle seat is a proper seat, flat floor and a good view out. I bore myself with recommending it all the time but it really is brilliant. Plus, it's decent steer as well.



Similar discussion here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[jamieduff1981]

I did Aberdeen to Perth and back on the middle seat of our S-Type wedged between two Stage 2 child seats. I was very sore for most of it.

[Bill]

Tannedbaldhead said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

I really don't know why manufacturers don't offer a proper 3-seat bench, even as an option

3 separate seats like a Berlingo would fit in any mid-to-large saloon or estate

This is pretty much my point. Space isn't the big issue it's the shaping of the rear seat.

Presumably there's not (perceived to be...) much market for it and it'd require separate crash testing and might affect the NCAP rating.

[hairyben]

I think people are just generally larger today so manufacturers focus on 2 rather than 3 pax for the back with occasional 3rd occupancy.

My vito's wider than any normal car and supposedly a proper 3 seater in the front but it's still a elbow squish.

If they were really smart they could have a slightly staggered seating option a la mclaren f1

[Hugo a Gogo]

Bill said:

Tannedbaldhead said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

I really don't know why manufacturers don't offer a proper 3-seat bench, even as an option

3 separate seats like a Berlingo would fit in any mid-to-large saloon or estate

This is pretty much my point. Space isn't the big issue it's the shaping of the rear seat.

Presumably there's not (perceived to be...) much market for it and it'd require separate crash testing and might affect the NCAP rating.

the massive market for Scenics, Picassos, Berlingos, Kangoos, Almera Tinos, Mazda 5s, Tourans etc etc etc might prove them wrong

just a different shaped seat wouldn't need a new NCAP

[vikingaero]

The rear middle passenger will always get a raw deal on any RWD car because of the propshaft.

[Tannedbaldhead]

Dapster said:

SMAX is the way forward! Middle seat is a proper seat, flat floor and a good view out. I bore myself with recommending it all the time but it really is brilliant. Plus, it's decent steer as well.



Similar discussion here:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

My brother has one and loves it. It's a better drivers' car than a previous Alfa 159 Sportwagon he owned.

Saw that discussion. OP there is more concerned with out and out space as his children are sitting on booster seats, my issue is that even if the space is available the car manufacturers blow their cars as proper five seaters, as opposed to 4+1s, by heavily sculpting the rear bench.

[Bill]

Hugo a Gogo said:

the massive market for Scenics, Picassos, Berlingos, Kangoos, Almera Tinos, Mazda 5s, Tourans etc etc etc might prove them wrong

just a different shaped seat wouldn't need a new NCAP

They're billed as family cars, whereas most saloons are billed as cars for thrusting executives.

[surveyor]

I've driven a couple of 7 seaters - a Grand Voyager that was comfortable, but a hellish driving proposition, and actually owned an Espace.

As a driving experience it was actually very good and the 2.0 diesel (not the 1.9 time bomb) gave adequate performance. Top heavy probably, but never felt it (the voyager did).

What impressed me most (and why I bought the Espace) was the peace and harmony it bought me in the back. The higher seating position and extra space really did make a difference.

Worth a look at the 7 seaters to test whether your assumption are actually presumptions.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Bill said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

the massive market for Scenics, Picassos, Berlingos, Kangoos, Almera Tinos, Mazda 5s, Tourans etc etc etc might prove them wrong

just a different shaped seat wouldn't need a new NCAP

They're billed as family cars, whereas most saloons are billed as cars for thrusting executives.

what, a Passat estate, for example?

[Bill]

Er.

Who does buy new Passat estates? Washing machine engineers who don't want a van, maybe?

[Tannedbaldhead]

Bill said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

the massive market for Scenics, Picassos, Berlingos, Kangoos, Almera Tinos, Mazda 5s, Tourans etc etc etc might prove them wrong

just a different shaped seat wouldn't need a new NCAP

They're billed as family cars, whereas most saloons are billed as cars for thrusting executives.

Doesn't all that executive thrusting result in many offspring?