Mandatory Unpaid Overtime
Discussion
Just wanting other people's opinions on the subject really, as I'm not sure whether my colleagues and myself are being shafted at all.
We all work a shift which is four-on four-off. Upon getting our job and signing our contracts we signed a waiver saying we can work beyond the typical government forty-eight hours a week. In the past if people went sick or took holiday then one of the other shift workers would have to come in on their time off and cover, but we would always be asked first - if we were busy, then we wouldn't do it.
Recently however as part of the many things going downhill in the office, we're now given a months notice of extra shifts we have to work, and as management cite that they give us "thirty days notice" of these extra shifts, we have no choice but to work them, and tough luck if you had something planned on your day off. The worst of it though is we don't get paid any overtime or any extra for these additional shifts we work, we don't even get time of in lieu. We end up working for free, in our own time, and when I brought the matter up I was told "If you don't like it you can always f**k off and find a new job" (Which incidentally is what I'm in the process of doing)
So what I'm wondering is can an employer make you work overtime, in your own time, for free, and be legal about it? Management cite the hours waiver we signed as justification for doing this, and in the past nobody minded covering the odd shift but now we're working a couple each month it seems.
Am I moaning for the sake of it or do I have a reason to be annoyed? (I must state that I've had no problem in the past with helping the team out with the odd extra shift, we've all done it, but lately we feel like we're being taken advantage of)
We all work a shift which is four-on four-off. Upon getting our job and signing our contracts we signed a waiver saying we can work beyond the typical government forty-eight hours a week. In the past if people went sick or took holiday then one of the other shift workers would have to come in on their time off and cover, but we would always be asked first - if we were busy, then we wouldn't do it.
Recently however as part of the many things going downhill in the office, we're now given a months notice of extra shifts we have to work, and as management cite that they give us "thirty days notice" of these extra shifts, we have no choice but to work them, and tough luck if you had something planned on your day off. The worst of it though is we don't get paid any overtime or any extra for these additional shifts we work, we don't even get time of in lieu. We end up working for free, in our own time, and when I brought the matter up I was told "If you don't like it you can always f**k off and find a new job" (Which incidentally is what I'm in the process of doing)
So what I'm wondering is can an employer make you work overtime, in your own time, for free, and be legal about it? Management cite the hours waiver we signed as justification for doing this, and in the past nobody minded covering the odd shift but now we're working a couple each month it seems.
Am I moaning for the sake of it or do I have a reason to be annoyed? (I must state that I've had no problem in the past with helping the team out with the odd extra shift, we've all done it, but lately we feel like we're being taken advantage of)
https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructi...
"Constructive dismissal
Constructive dismissal is when you’re forced to leave your job against your will because of your employer’s conduct.
The reasons you leave your job must be serious, for example, they:
don’t pay you or suddenly demote you for no reason
force you to accept unreasonable changes to how you work - eg tell you to work night shifts when your contract is only for day work"
"Constructive dismissal
Constructive dismissal is when you’re forced to leave your job against your will because of your employer’s conduct.
The reasons you leave your job must be serious, for example, they:
don’t pay you or suddenly demote you for no reason
force you to accept unreasonable changes to how you work - eg tell you to work night shifts when your contract is only for day work"
k all.The contract doesn't mention anything about overtime; as within the company there is no such thing, and the hours waiver is there as a general procedure I presume as we work shifts. (Friends who work shifts in various jobs have also had to sign it) It mentions in our contract that we are required to sign the waiver as there will be times when we are required to work more than forty-eight hours a week (sickness, holiday etc) which is fine by us, we're just getting fed up of the company's attitude of "You'll work the extra shifts, for free and if you don't like it then leave".
I get the impression that it is not really the done thing, as when it crops up in conversations with people they are shocked that we're treated in such a way.
I'm not about to rock the boat as (a) I intend on leaving ASAP and (b) two previous colleagues who made a fuss about it were given a hard time until they themselves left. The job is miserable enough without having management make things worse.
I'm going to just suck it up until I leave, but at least if people are saying that this shouldn't be the way it is, then at least I'm not moaning about nothing.
I get the impression that it is not really the done thing, as when it crops up in conversations with people they are shocked that we're treated in such a way.
I'm not about to rock the boat as (a) I intend on leaving ASAP and (b) two previous colleagues who made a fuss about it were given a hard time until they themselves left. The job is miserable enough without having management make things worse.
I'm going to just suck it up until I leave, but at least if people are saying that this shouldn't be the way it is, then at least I'm not moaning about nothing.
The only shocking thing is the fact you don't get paid for the time, every contract I have had allows for extra hours as deemed necessary
My dad did the same shift pattern as you before he retired, his firm tried to bring in a rule that you had to be available to be called in on a rest day, if you were not then they invoke the discipline procedures.
If you wanted a guaranteed day off on a rest day you would need to book it as annual holiday. Their union stopped that one
My dad did the same shift pattern as you before he retired, his firm tried to bring in a rule that you had to be available to be called in on a rest day, if you were not then they invoke the discipline procedures.
If you wanted a guaranteed day off on a rest day you would need to book it as annual holiday. Their union stopped that one
Sorry OP, but could you just clarify.
Are you saying that you work a 48 hour week but that your employer can insist you work an extra day (becoming 60 hours) for no money at all, or no free day off next week? I can't help thinking you have misunderstood something there.
Are you salaried eg you earn £20k per year, or are you paid an hourly rate?
Are you saying that you work a 48 hour week but that your employer can insist you work an extra day (becoming 60 hours) for no money at all, or no free day off next week? I can't help thinking you have misunderstood something there.
Are you salaried eg you earn £20k per year, or are you paid an hourly rate?
blindswelledrat said:
Sorry OP, but could you just clarify.
Are you saying that you work a 48 hour week but that your employer can insist you work an extra day (becoming 60 hours) for no money at all, or no free day off next week? I can't help thinking you have misunderstood something there.
Are you salaried eg you earn £20k per year, or are you paid an hourly rate?
He seems to be saying working an extra day for no extra pay at all - meaning if he did 5 days (his normal 4 day shift plus 1 extra shift) he would still only get paid the same as for 4 days.Are you saying that you work a 48 hour week but that your employer can insist you work an extra day (becoming 60 hours) for no money at all, or no free day off next week? I can't help thinking you have misunderstood something there.
Are you salaried eg you earn £20k per year, or are you paid an hourly rate?
That's my interpretation - and to be frank - the OP is better off out of there - tbey sound like a right bunch of muppets to be working for.
Ive no doubt that if the company don't get the idea that if you do an extra day with no time in lieu - then you should get paid for the extra day - they are general all round muppets to deal with in other respects too.
Incidentally - I have heard of this kind of situation before where staff would work extra time for free on the basis that they get time in lieu.
Personally I wouldn't be that keen on working extra hours on the basis that you don't get paid for these hours but instead get the time back. Why?? - well ive known situations where organisations are short staffed - staff work the extra hours but can't get time back due short staffing.
In saying that though - if theres no actual time limit on when time in lieu can be taken - then its not so bad - you might be able to keep the time back for a long trip or something at a later date
I work the 4 on 4 shift too, and had to sign a similar waiver about the working hours.
However, when they ask us to come in for extra days to cover shifts, it's either as Overtime on 1.5 x rate or claim the time off in lieu. I can't believe there's nothing in your contract about OT / TOIL?
Are you a perm employee or a contractor?
However, when they ask us to come in for extra days to cover shifts, it's either as Overtime on 1.5 x rate or claim the time off in lieu. I can't believe there's nothing in your contract about OT / TOIL?
Are you a perm employee or a contractor?
Just to clarify a few points:
- I am salaried
- There is no mention in the contract of being 'obliged' to work extra shifts
- There is no overtime whatsoever
- There is no recompense at all for any additional shifts worked
A while ago they did give us TOIL for extra shifts worked, but they soon realised that this was a bad move as someone had to come in and cover the TOIL shift, meaning they would earn TOIL by doing that, and it would just turn into a complete nightmare.
I agree that management are complete muppets; there is a high turnover rate of staff because of the general malaise, and the company's counter to this was get interns in (most unpaid as well) to cover the easy-to-fill roles.
- I am salaried
- There is no mention in the contract of being 'obliged' to work extra shifts
- There is no overtime whatsoever
- There is no recompense at all for any additional shifts worked
A while ago they did give us TOIL for extra shifts worked, but they soon realised that this was a bad move as someone had to come in and cover the TOIL shift, meaning they would earn TOIL by doing that, and it would just turn into a complete nightmare.
I agree that management are complete muppets; there is a high turnover rate of staff because of the general malaise, and the company's counter to this was get interns in (most unpaid as well) to cover the easy-to-fill roles.
don't forget minimum wage legislation as well
if your total hours worked divided by your pay means your hourly rate falls below the minimum wage you can beat them with that big stick as well
personally id tell them to bugger orf and if they tried to discipline you go through the full procedure including appeals then if you have no joy bum rape them at tribunal.
and companies whine about employee loyalty ffs
if your total hours worked divided by your pay means your hourly rate falls below the minimum wage you can beat them with that big stick as well
personally id tell them to bugger orf and if they tried to discipline you go through the full procedure including appeals then if you have no joy bum rape them at tribunal.
and companies whine about employee loyalty ffs
citizensm1th said:
steve singh said:
Depends on your salary.
Really? I bet you won the maths prize at school didn't youAnyhow, unlike your employment in McDonalds, a large number of corporations pay a higher base salary than their peers with the understanding that unpaid overtime may be required.
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