Post Office: What's in the parcel?
Discussion
Having been told by the manager of a post office that 'it was the law' that I had to state exactly what I was sending in a parcel, I've done some digging into exactly what this law is.
Originally I asked counter staff who were questioning me about what I was sending - and then the manager - about the name of this bit of legislation.
Initially the manager was dismissive, wouldn't talk to me directly and told her staff to tell me 'it's the CAA'. I responded by telling her the Civial Aviation Authority doesn't draft legislation and bills. As no one had a clear, truthful answer, I said I would look again I but would ask for a copy from the manager if I couldn't find it.
On my next visit the manager provided the documents below which I've uploaded. These are PO internal guidance docs only as of course, no legislation/law actually exists, as if it did it would almost certainly be reference in these docs/guidelines - and there is no copy/record of it online, or any references to it at all. I was told I couldn't take these internal documents away, so I didn't.
So this is what the PO says, regarding why you must, when asked, tell the counter staff what you are sending, and what the staff should do if you won't tell them:
Page 1:
Page 2:
The points of particular interest are:
"4. A customer doesn't know what's in the parcel: what should happen?
A parcel cannot be accepted if the customer can't confirm what's in their parcel..."
"5. A customer refuses to inform the post office what's in their parcel, what should happen?
...if a customer refuses to tell you what's in their parcel, it cannot be accepted...'
There are perfectly good reasons to restrict the posting certain items, chemicals, etc. But I strongly disagree that revealing to counter staff what you are sending is a neccessity.
And being repeatedly lied to pisses me right off. Your comments, please!
Originally I asked counter staff who were questioning me about what I was sending - and then the manager - about the name of this bit of legislation.
Initially the manager was dismissive, wouldn't talk to me directly and told her staff to tell me 'it's the CAA'. I responded by telling her the Civial Aviation Authority doesn't draft legislation and bills. As no one had a clear, truthful answer, I said I would look again I but would ask for a copy from the manager if I couldn't find it.
On my next visit the manager provided the documents below which I've uploaded. These are PO internal guidance docs only as of course, no legislation/law actually exists, as if it did it would almost certainly be reference in these docs/guidelines - and there is no copy/record of it online, or any references to it at all. I was told I couldn't take these internal documents away, so I didn't.
So this is what the PO says, regarding why you must, when asked, tell the counter staff what you are sending, and what the staff should do if you won't tell them:
Page 1:
Page 2:
The points of particular interest are:
"4. A customer doesn't know what's in the parcel: what should happen?
A parcel cannot be accepted if the customer can't confirm what's in their parcel..."
"5. A customer refuses to inform the post office what's in their parcel, what should happen?
...if a customer refuses to tell you what's in their parcel, it cannot be accepted...'
There are perfectly good reasons to restrict the posting certain items, chemicals, etc. But I strongly disagree that revealing to counter staff what you are sending is a neccessity.
And being repeatedly lied to pisses me right off. Your comments, please!
Why do you feel that it requires a law to enforce?
Unless you can show otherwise, being able to send anything via RM is a civil contract, not a legal right. They are able to negotiate the terms of that contract, and you are able to refuse to accept it, in which case you'll have to send them via some other means.
Unless you can show otherwise, being able to send anything via RM is a civil contract, not a legal right. They are able to negotiate the terms of that contract, and you are able to refuse to accept it, in which case you'll have to send them via some other means.
trashbat said:
Why do you feel that it requires a law to enforce?
Unless you can show otherwise, being able to send anything via RM is a civil contract, not a legal right. They are able to negotiate the terms of that contract, and you are able to refuse to accept it, in which case you'll have to send them via some other means.
Because the Managers initial position was that it was law. First line of the OP. Hence the OP was looking for what law.Unless you can show otherwise, being able to send anything via RM is a civil contract, not a legal right. They are able to negotiate the terms of that contract, and you are able to refuse to accept it, in which case you'll have to send them via some other means.
Now it turns out it's just a term of their contract, it can be whatever they like and the OP can accept or not. But the law point was brought up by the misguided PO Manager.
Mobile Chicane said:
It's a dildo, isn't it?
Of course we would never suggest 'your dildo' just 'a dildo'Whilst I hate to join the grumpy PH masses, my grumpy old man side is saying two things:
1. Grow Up
2. If you don't like em' don't use em'
If I'm asking a company to transport something of mine, why the hell wouldn't I be willing to tell them what???
mrmr96 said:
Because the Managers initial position was that it was law. First line of the OP. Hence the OP was looking for what law.
Now it turns out it's just a term of their contract, it can be whatever they like and the OP can accept or not. But the law point was brought up by the misguided PO Manager.
Well, yes, so the manager was wrong. A moral victory with no tangible outcome.Now it turns out it's just a term of their contract, it can be whatever they like and the OP can accept or not. But the law point was brought up by the misguided PO Manager.
Now he still has to find some sort of fatalistic, nihilist courier who doesn't care what he sends, or really anything about anything. Might I suggest Yodel?
I send parcels everyday with the PO & have to fill in the little CN22 forms - on there you have to put what the parcel contains. I put "Clothing" or "Footwear" - nobody has ever had an issue with this so I don't get what the point of this thread is.
If someone asked me to deliver something across the world, I'd certainly want to have some idea what it was.
If someone asked me to deliver something across the world, I'd certainly want to have some idea what it was.
MrReg said:
Why didn't you just lie and tell them it contained books or something - they're not going to check are they?
Why not lie and tell them it's a dildo?It's not like a dildo is likely to contain nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.
Also you'll have the laugh of causing embarrassment
Knowing what is in the package is a fundamental right of a transporter.
If you don't ask, you cannot be expected to know.
It could be drugs, guns, chemicals, nuclear waste (to use extreme examples)
You as a supplier can be pursued for sending these things, but if the transporter does not ask then they can be pursued for transporting them for you.
It's not like you are being asked to specify exactly what it is. 'Clothing' or 'Electrical goods' is perfectly sufficient....
If you don't ask, you cannot be expected to know.
It could be drugs, guns, chemicals, nuclear waste (to use extreme examples)
You as a supplier can be pursued for sending these things, but if the transporter does not ask then they can be pursued for transporting them for you.
It's not like you are being asked to specify exactly what it is. 'Clothing' or 'Electrical goods' is perfectly sufficient....
Aviation and Martime Security Act 1990, section 47.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/31/sectio...
To be fair to the man at the Post Office, this is really just a codification of something that's been a contractual obligation for many years so it isn't likely that it would be written down as statute in their material.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/31/sectio...
To be fair to the man at the Post Office, this is really just a codification of something that's been a contractual obligation for many years so it isn't likely that it would be written down as statute in their material.
I never understand why people get in a such a weird mood about stuff like this.
You want to use a service, one of the terms of their service is that you disclose what is in the package.
Let's assume you A) Know what it is the package and B) that it's not illegal. Why wouldn't you just tell them? Why be deliberately obtuse and refuse to tell them because there may not be a law making you do so?
On the other hand let's say you C) Don't know what is in the package or D) Know it contains crack cocaine. You lie. You say it's a box of Dairy Milk for your gran.
Arguing with someone trying to stick to the rules of the company they work for is just retarded and only makes a fool out of you IMO.
You want to use a service, one of the terms of their service is that you disclose what is in the package.
Let's assume you A) Know what it is the package and B) that it's not illegal. Why wouldn't you just tell them? Why be deliberately obtuse and refuse to tell them because there may not be a law making you do so?
On the other hand let's say you C) Don't know what is in the package or D) Know it contains crack cocaine. You lie. You say it's a box of Dairy Milk for your gran.
Arguing with someone trying to stick to the rules of the company they work for is just retarded and only makes a fool out of you IMO.
mrmr96 said:
Because the Managers initial position was that it was law.
This is the point. Officials who strap 'It's the law' onto things to make it sound more important. It's designed to intimidate. Like security guards who say you can't photograph their factory from public land because 'It's the law'. No it isn't and yes you can. NB (7) says the Royal Mail has exemption for small quantities anyway!
mrmr96 said:
Chrisgr31 said:
It is the law, the law of contract!
Erm, what?It's also an interpretation of a number of laws and regulations, from the health and safety side and perhaps from a terrorism law.
Ie in order to be safe, under health and safety rules, we need to minimise the risks to our employees, therefore we ask customers to tell us what the risky substances.
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